verowire - magnet wire?

[wicked1]

Verowire is enameled wire, as is magnet wire. 

Do you think I could use enameled magnet wire instead? 

And to answer a previous question of mine - in the usa you can find it as vector wire.  I'm just wondering if magnet wire could be a low cost alternative. 

[TheAncientOne]

In most cases, no. Verowire has a special insulation coating that melts and dissolves away when heated with a soldering iron. Some fine wire used in coil winding and electromagnets is the same stuff, but normally the enamel coating does not shift. If you find 'self fluxing' wire - that IS the same stuff. It's often used in the finer guages for coils because of the difficulty of removing the enamel from very fine wire - try rubbing it off and you've no wire left.

So if you can find some self fluxing wire, or on a test, you can solder it successfully without stripping it, (and that means doing an Ohm meter test once the joints are done), then you can use it. Otherwise you'll just have to track down somew spools of the real stuff.

If I remember correctly, the kit, with the wiring 'pen' in it is quite cheap anyway.

Hope this helps

Mike

[wicked1]

Problem for me is that I am in the US.  The verowire looks to be way less expensive than the "vector wire" that is available here.  The vector wire pens here are not plastic.  They are metal (aluminum, I think), and have special bits to strip the wire as you wrap it.  The bit's alone are $70, and the pen is about $150-$ 200!!!  BUT, the vector wire w/ pen is meant for truly quick prototyping.  It strips the insulation only on the side of the wrap that goes around your post, and is not meant to be soldered. at all!  (Im sure you could solder for more permanent applications, but like I said, its sold as a fast prototyping tool)

So.. anyone in the civilized parts of the world want to purchase a couple of things for me and ship them here ;).

I did find this about using magnet wire, but it doesn't say if it is any special type

http://www.cinstrum.unam.mx/jart/vol4_1/44%20KUSSUL.pdf

And I'm also not opposed to scraping the insulation off the wire before I solder it.  It would still be faster than stripping wire, and having to solder a bunch of ends together at each junction, etc.

My main concern is that Im wondering if the enamel on standard magnet wire is insulation enough for this project.  I don't mind a little extra work (scraping wire, or whatever), but I don't want any shorts!

thanks

[TheAncientOne]

Here is a page reference for the Verowire system.http://www.verotl.com/products/index.cfm?content_id=7846BCBE-F067-441A-9F53A51D8E4CC6B3

I could sort one out for you if it's a problem stateside. I need some 'Kynar' insulated wire for use with a cut/strip/wrap bit, which is hard to get over here - perhaps we could do a swap?

There is a tutorial here too: http://freespace.virgin.net/john.hardaker/Musatek/vero.html

I've used it for quite a few high density logic boards and it works fine. I tend to use a 'finger' type protoboard and use heavier wire solder for the power.

[doc]

Just a sidenote:

It is a real benefit, if the pen is NOT plastic!!

I always have the problem, that I melt away the pen if the wire is getting to hot.

You won't have that problem, if your pen is out of Aluminium.

greets

Doc

[stryd_one]

*WARNING! When soldering through polyurethane enamelled wire a small quantity of TDI gas is produced. Use in a well ventilated room.

:)

I'm starting to feel like the forum safety rep ;)

the civilized parts of the world

Hah, civil. You're a funny guy  ;D

[wicked1]

I found a company in Canada who will ship to me.  The two USA distributors listed on the Vero website wanted nothing to do with me.  Of course the Canadian company was super friendly..  Only down side is that they don't stock it, and it would take a month or more for me to get it.  That is fine with me, though.  At least they are willing to help. 

see.. civilized.  Not like the barbaric u.s. companies who wont deal with a hobbyist.  "On no..  We may be the only source of this product in America, but we sure wont sell it to YOU"  Seems like it would be in Vero's best interest to find a new distributor in the USA.  Of course, im sure the next one would be just as bad.  No company in the u.s. would ever help someone out.  It's all about the largest profit margin for the least amount of work put into the job.

[TheAncientOne]

Just a sidenote:

It is a real benefit, if the pen is NOT plastic!!

I always have the problem, that I melt away the pen if the wire is getting to hot.

You won't have that problem, if your pen is out of Aluminium.

The trick is to push a little wire down the hole the pin comes through, wind 2/3 turns around the pin, pull away, and then solder. If doing free wire ends, then hold the end with a pair of tweezers. Funny, I've been using the same pen since they came out and I've never had to get the iron that near it! Another trick for main logic is the pin spreader, which kicks all the pins out slightly, allowing a single loop for intermediates.

For flat wired loops and patch/repair  wiring, use the tweezers.

Different styles perhaps.

They also make a seriously expensive system called Speedwire, an IDC logic wiring system, though the protoboards were full of sockets and cost over £80 last time I looked.

Mike

[wicked1]

Ok, one last verowire question. 

is there any difference between the pink and the gold wire, other than the color?

Edit- make that 2 questions.

Can I use the verowire for the panel connections?  I was going to make PCB's for din and dout, but now I'm thinking I'll just find an empty spot on the board next to my rows of encoders and buttons and wire it all up in place.

Thanks again

[TheAncientOne]

I think the colours are just for convenience. Vero don;t have separate specs on the site.

I can't see a problem with verowiring the DIN/DOUT's though I wouldn't use it for unsupported runs to remote encoders. LED's or switches.