Control Ableton Live using Extended Instant Mapping with MIDIbox

[sebiiksbcs]

Hi,

I had the idea to check if my 'ultra-versatile' and 'timelessly-reusable' MIDIbox 64 could imitate the extended instant mapping support the Remote SL Controller by Novation does in Ableton Live.

There already was a post about the Remote SL MIDI I/O configuration in this forum, but seemingly with no further activity. So I decided to create a new topic about what I call Remote SL Extended Instant Mapping, REIM.

The REIM is actually pretty useful, much like half of a Mackie Universal Control:

• switching between banks of 8 tracks each
  
• switching between control over volume/pan/sends in those banks
  
• locking control surface to devices or plugins
  
• mute/arm each track easily
  
• transport control
  
• macro functions and up to 8 banks of device controls (e.g. modify each slot in Impulse using its 8 macro banks
  

Actually any half-way equipped MIDI controller could imitate the MIDI config of the Remote SL, so TK's MIDIbox could easily do it twice! (as you will see later, it basically does.)

I found out all MIDI sent by the Remote SL, actually without ever having seen or touched one. Once again the user-friendly architechture and functionality of the MIDIbox project helped me with that.

More info soon. I will create some PDFs to ease it all up.

PS: I would appreciate some help about LED lighting later. I would like to get the LEDs working as they would on the Remote SL. (Track mute/record, volume/pan/sends buttons and so on)

[sebiiksbcs]

Actually, it is not bad to experiment with the Remote SL mapping, but now I am adding a selection of Mackie control buttons, and up to 4 control surface locks. (That means, you can lock groups of 8 pots/faders/encoders each to 4 devices or plugins, on the fly. Of course you will have to use a MIDI controller with 32 pots/faders/encoders if you want to use all 4 locks. Example: you have 32 pots. You lock 8 to the Beat Repeat in your drum track, 8 to the fx plugin in your master track, and 16 to 2 soft synths. Five minutes later you played enough with the Beat Repeats and lock the first pot group to your Filter Rack... I think you know what I mean.)

Also, I make the possibility to cut down on required buttons by combining the select/rec and the mute/solo buttons. Pity the LEDs quite can't deal with that, unless you have two-color LEDs.

[Resident-RobB]

Any progress on this  project? Seems very interesting to me!

[cimo]

Any progress on this  project? Seems very interesting to me!  ;D

[Sasha]

I`m quite interested in this project myself as I`m in final designing phase of my Ableton Live controller based on one Mackie protocol. I`m not sure what are benefits of Remote SL compared to Mackie so if somebody have better picture of integration of those 2 I would be glad to hear more info. I`m pretty satisfied with my LC emulation on 2x MB64E platform but there is always some room for improvements until building begin.

[drsyncenstein]

@ Sasha

The Novation Remote has encoders, faders and pots.

Everything except for the pots is automatically mapped to the parameters on your computer screen. If you click on a different thing, for example on the eq 8 in Live,

then the remote is immediately assigned to the eq knobs. If you would switch to a synth it would map it's knobs to the synth parameters automatically.

I makes me very lazy  ;D

[DavidBanner]

Sasha - one word - Python, if you really wanna get hard-core go down that route, or like you already planned mackie have done pretty much anything I could think of needing...

[Sasha]

@drsyncenstein

Can you navigate/focus on certain area with MIDI comands  like LC or you have to do it with mouse?

Can you post controls MIDI mapping somewhere please?

@DavidBanner

I was intrigued with Pythonn as I never heard of it and tried to find some info.

Here is what I`ve find...

Registered : 2004-07-06 03:01

Development Status : 2 - Pre-Alpha

Public Forums  : (2 messages in 2 forums)

Mailing Lists  : (1 total)

Is that the Python you are talking about?

http://pythonmidi.sourceforge.net/

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythonmidi/

I would like to improve my controller design based on something that exists so I dont see how Phyton fits at all. But thank you anyway.

[DavidBanner]

Hi Sasha.

Sorry - I thought you'd have known more about Ableton/Python - hence my ultra short reply.

Python is a scripting language. Abelton have opened up Live so you can control EVERYTHING (as I understand it literally everything ableton does) using Python scripts.

But like I said, I haven't needed to go down that road yet, Mackie is doing all I need. But I probably will start to play with python scripts this year cause ya never know what you might want/need till you know you can do it.

dB

[Sasha]

No, I didn`t know that. :-[ I also didn`t know Ableton opened Live. Do you have some usefull link to shorten my search time.

It really makes me happy to know things are rolling that way. I`m not into programming at all, but it is good to know there is a chance one day we can control all the parameters we always wanted and we could maybe to forget about computer and do everything as from controller as Robert Henge does now. And even much more.

I really blame Ableton they still didn`t include all necessary MIDI mapping.

If Live is great DJ tool as it really is, why there still no option to browse the and cue tracks/clips in the browser and easily add the sellected track to the last selected sloth in live? That is one of the meny questions I would like to ask Abletons. I`m really big fan of Live, but there are few crucial things that need to be taken care of. I hope they will pay more attention on their users wishlist.

[DavidBanner]

If Live is great DJ tool as it really is, why there still no option to browse

my guess is this - they don't have any real DJs (i.e. people who are actually standing in dark DJ boxes every weekend) who also have a clue about interface design working on their team. Bascially the same reason why the Uc33e has black knobs with black indicator triangles that are useless in a club unless you paint the triangles white.

Sorry, I don't have a link - hit the ableton site's forum and do a search on Python, I think it's one of those things like midifeed back was on 5, released quitely and not supported as such.

[audioworld]

sasha,

the most obvious approach would be the project called "liveapi". they were VERY active last year in summer and created a lot of traffic in the ableton forums:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66118&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

later in the year it got calm, the domain liveapi.org disappeared, but since some weeks the basic code can be found here again:

http://code.google.com/p/liveapi/

I hope this points you in a direction which is useful to you,

best regards,

karl.

[Sasha]

my guess is this - they don't have any real DJs

I don`t agree quite right. Take for instance big names as DJ Sasha or Richie Hawtin. Laptop DJing is not just for the room DJs. We all know DJing is going to be all digital.  The records in clubs will die, because they are pretty much limited. You cannot manipulate them as good as you can do with tools like Ableton Live or something similar. People will appreciate much more DJs that will play them tracks that they never heard of, and they can do it easily by manipulating the tracks new way. I really love vinyls but it`s tracks are hard to cut and reorganize.  ::)  Plain DJing will slowly but surely die and performing oriented DJ will take it`s place.

Thanks audioworld. I`ll surely check it.  ;)

[DavidBanner]

Sasha - you mis-quoted me...

what I said was:

real DJs (i.e. people who are actually standing in dark DJ boxes every weekend) who also have a clue about interface design

Sasha is a big DJ as is Hawtin, but how much experience in interface design have they got?

For that matter I can guarentee you that Sasha could spend six weeks in a studio and without an engineer there is no chance of a track coming out of there...

[DavidBanner]

Laptop DJing is not just for the room DJs.

Hardly any international DJs are using vinyl any more, it's all about CDs and or Laptops. Trust me, if you turn up for a gig with a box of records these days the other DJs look at you as a bedroom/local jock.

for me it was the functionality of Ableton 5  combined with post 9/11 security and baggage restrictions which meant I could only carry about 50 or so bit of vinyl as hand luggage (never, ever, ever send your vinyl/laptop into baggage compartment cause if they lose it - no gig, no money and a very upset promoter).

[cimo]

.. just to let you know.. i spin real records (well my pal does) and do real time sampling.. ie: i spend hours tapping on the tap button, alternately i use a foot controller so i can tap on there

[sebiiksbcs]

Regarding the original topic of this thread: Sorry, I didn't continue that Remote SL MIDI stuff, cause a MBLC does just everything and more than a Remote does. But I can post the MIDI data that Ableton and Remote SL work with to communicate, if somebody here likes to see. I have no plan about the MIDI traffic that makes up the LCD messages on the Remote though.

[Resident-RobB]

yeah, I would like to see ;)

[sebiiksbcs]

This is a PDF file with all instant mapping functions of the Remote SL for Ableton Live. Imitate, emulate and enjoy.

Remote SL mapping for Ableton Live.pdf

Remote SL mapping for Ableton Live.pdf

[sebiiksbcs]

What I like about the Remote SL mapping is that you can quickly switch between volume, pan, and all sends all on 8 knobs (or sliders), and that in banks of 8 tracks. Then you have 8 Encoders for all your device banks.

LC is more powerful, Remote SL is easier, doable on MB64(E) or for smaller performance controllers, probably without need for a (big) display.