The Pedal Box and Pedal Board Thread

[FoneBone]

Here are the first pics of my Pedal Board. The "case" is just a prototype (box of my mainboard) and will be replaced with an aluminuim-case when all is done.

Next thing to do is installing the LEDs.

Some bugs:

- bank changing displays wrong infos (bug as known in the wiki)

- my 5 buttons (COMP, MOD, DELAY, REVERB, FX LOOP) are fixed ones and should switch between "on" and "off", but they always stay "off".

Little info: All buttons are momentary switches.

EDIT:

The indicator LEDs don't work and I have no idea why... ???

Here is my pbx_config.h

/*
 * MIOS Pedal Box / Pedal Board - pbx_config.h
 * v2beta1b - February 2008
 * ==========================================================================
 *
 *  Copyright (C) 2008  Mick Crozier mcrozier@iinet.net.au
 *  Licensed for personal non-commercial use only.
 *  All other rights reserved.
 *
 * ==========================================================================
 */

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Configuration Parameters
//
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

/* General Settings */
#define   PEDALBOARD             1  // 1 = Pedal Board mode    0 = Pedal Box mode
#define   MIDI_MERGER            0  // 0 = off   1 = on
#define   NUMBER_OF_SRIO         2 // 1-16  number of shift registers connected (count DIN or DOUT, whichever has more)

/* Pedal Settings */
#define   AIN_DEADBAND           7 // 7 for 7-bit midi is best
#define   AIN_NUMBER_INPUTS      1 // 1 - 8 - number of pots connected


/* Pedal Board Buttons */
#define   DIN_DEBOUNCE_VALUE     20 // debounce value

// FIXED BUTTONS MUST CONNECT FIRST
#define   DIN_FIXED_BUTTONS      6 // 0-16 buttons that always stay the same, regardless of bank

// BANKED BUTTONS MUST BE CONNECTED AFTER FIXED BUTTONS
#define   DIN_BANKED_BUTTONS     4 // 0-16 buttons that change with bank. 1 banked button will cause display errors when bank is over 99

 //THESE SPECIAL FUNCTION BUTTONS MUST BE CONNECTED AFTER THE BANKED BUTTONS!!!!!!!
#define   DIN_BANK_UP            10   // 4 - 33, pin number of button used to bank up
#define   DIN_BANK_DOWN          11   // 4 - 33, pin number of button used to bank down

 // THESE SPECIAL BUTTONS CAN BE ANY BUTTON CONNECTED, THEY ARE DUAL USE.
#define   EVENT_SETUP_DIN_PIN    4   // 0 - 33, pin number of button used to enter event setup
#define   GLOBAL_SETUP_DIN_PIN   5   // 0 - 33, pin number of button used to enter AIN setup


 /* Relay setup */
#define   RELAY_SHIFT_REGISTER     0 // 0 - 7 Relay's Shift Register
#define   RELAY_LED_SHIFT_REGISTER 0 // 0 - 7 Relay's LD indicator Shift Register


/* LED setup */
#define   USE_LED_INDICATORS     1  // Enable LED indicators connected 1 = Enabled 0 = Disabled

/* LED Digit Setup */
#define   DIGITS_CONNECTED       0  // 0-2 How many LED digits are connected
#define   DOUT_DIGITS_SR         0  // What SR do the digits start from.
                                    // 2nd digit will be on the next SR

                                    ////////////////////////////////////
                                    // IF NO LED DIGITS ARE CONNECTED //
                                    // A 2x20 LCD DISPLAY CAN BE USED //
                                    // WITH THE BANK DISPLAYED ON THE //
                                    // LAST 4 CHARACTERS              //
                                    ////////////////////////////////////

FBV-Custom_01 (Large).JPG

FBV-Custom_02 (Large).JPG

[Durisian]

FoneBone

Sweet - coming along nicely

Now that you've got this far i'll get my arse into gear and order a new core today so I can fix up any issues you find.

Indicators:

Things to try

Set the number_of_srio to 4

Set relay SR's to 2 and 3

Seems you found an oversight on my behalf. There is no way to disable relays.

Also try testing the LED's with dout_buttons - available in the ucapps download section under troubleshooting. This will make sure the LEDs are actually hooked up right.

Buttons -

So they never turn on?? Do they send midi? what about banked buttons?

Can you pm me your pbx file

Also a map of which button is connected to which pin

Ahh no, you should start the upload by starting the midibox.......

My problems came from losing power half way through an upload (dogey power connection on my testing core).

In my lazyness I would just repower without stopping MIOS studio, it had some interesting effects.

The pedal board pc editor doesn't have a 'wait for upload request' option. As it only works with banksticks I didn't feel it necessary... I should add it in just to be safe.

[FoneBone]

I've now tested your setting for the SR's... LEDs don't work.  ???

Then I've tested the dout_buttons as you told... LEDs work.  ;D

All buttons send MIDI, banked and fixed ones.

Buttons are mapped as follows:

Button                 DIN          DOUT
Fixed1                 J4 D0        J3 D7
Fixed2                 J4 D1        J3 D6
Fixed3                 J4 D2        J3 D5
Fixed4                 J4 D3        J3 D4
Fixed5                 J3 D4        J3 D3
Fixed6                 J3 D5        J3 D2
Bank1                  J3 D6        J3 D1
Bank2                  J3 D7        J3 D0
Bank3                  J6 D0        J4 D7
Bank4                  J6 D1        J4 D6
UP                     J6 D2        
DOWN                   J6 D3

Btw: Is it possible to set LEDs for BANK UP and BANK DOWN?

Which pbx file do you want? master bs or device bs?

[Durisian]

I pulled a core from one of my other projects and loaded it up with PB.

Everything is working, including the pc editor upload.

My guess with pc editor is a pc output midi port problem. Just make sure you select the right one, and that no other programs are using it.

I realised today that a big error occurs when another program has hold of a midi port your trying to use, but the editor won't tell you, it just won't work.

All buttons send MIDI, banked and fixed ones.

ok - need to check your pbx file

Buttons are mapped as follows:

Hardware Setup looks fine...

Btw: Is it possible to set LEDs for BANK UP and BANK DOWN?

I'm not sure what your asking..?

Which pbx file do you want? master bs or device bs?

The file thats created with the big 'save' button. It saves everything in one file (a .pbx file).

[FoneBone]

Hi,

The file thats created with the big 'save' button. It saves everything in one file (a .pbx file).

I've attached it, just delete the .zip-suffix.

I'm not sure what your asking..?

I meant indicator LEDs for the Up- and Down-Buttons, just for the pressed-status they light up.

Back to the other LED-problem:Do I have to but unused SR's to Ground, like I did for DIN-modul?

MyPedalBoard.pbx.zip

[Durisian]

ok... first I thing I see is that both are set to channel 1. This could be an issue.

..hmmm... ahhh....

Maybe the fixed button issue is remnat of an old bug. Try wiggling your pot a few a times first, then press the buttons.

As a work around you could try setting the relevant cc's to Meter with on/off instead of on/off only. It will have the same effect your after.

-------------WAIT

I think you've mis-interpreted the momentary/toggle option.

It doesn't mean what the hardware switch is (they must be momentary)

When set momentary - when your foot is down it will be on, when you remove your foot it will go off.

When set Toggle - when you foot goes down, the switch will change from it's previous state to the other. When you remove your foot there will be no change.

Try setting your buttons to toggle (it makes no difference with program changes)

-----------------

No grounding required for unused pins on DOUT's

LED's on bank buttons - I could make that happen, I guess so when the button is down the led lights up?

[FoneBone]

SUCCESS.... I have to change all options to "Toggle".... then LEDs are working and on/off of the fixed buttons is working, too.

Thanks a lot.

More to come, when housing is finished  ;D

EDIT:

2 pics with LEDs.....

btw: display bug of up and down button is gone!!!

IMG_0926 (Large).JPG

IMG_0927 (Large).JPG

[stryd_one]

grounding .... for unused pins on DOUT's

That will almost certainly kill things, as another forum member has recently accidentally discovered ;)

(name with held to protect the soldering errors) hehheheh

[FoneBone]

Would it be possible to edit bank-names directly on pedal-board, without pre-naming them before installing? Maybe in future versions of pedalbox/-board?

[Durisian]

Pedal Board Updated

- added bankstick magic numbers

There has been a slight change in the way data is stored on the bankstick.

The updated PC Editor will update old files to the new format

Would it be possible to edit bank-names directly on pedal-board, without pre-naming them before installing? Maybe in future versions of pedalbox/-board?

When I get a pic18f4620 and have more code space, yes.

[FoneBone]

Hi, I've updated to PedalBoard v2b2. And I've tried to update my banksticks, but I got a "Version ID Mismatch" for bankstick 1.

..."Have 101 Need 21"...

Result is: "Error 241"

Regards

FoneBone

[Durisian]

.... wha ...

sorry, I think I've uploaded the wrong version of the pc editor. That bug was the last thing I fixed...

Will fix it in the morning

Error 24# is Bankstick Magic Number mismatch on bankstick# - So that would be expected if you can't open your device file in the new editor to upload it

[FoneBone]

no problem... just downgraded to v2b1b for the moment  ;D

EDIT:

Today I was in my rehearsal room to test the pedal board. Works great, but is it possible, that pedal board will recieve the status of the effects (modulation and delay) used in every preset (bank)?

Example: When I use a preset, which contains a digital delay and a phaser (both are build-in effects of the amp) and I wanted to switch them off, I have to step two times (first on, then off). Would be great, if pedal board could recognize this status by switching between the presets.

[Durisian]

pc editor fixed

yeah!

Some devices have a request controls command, which will ask it to spit out all its current settings (the pic18f4620 version of pb will support midi in for pedal board).

This is something I intend to implement, This command would be sent straight after a program change.

But in the line 6 midi chart I can't see a command that would do this.

So I think your stuck with the hard way :(

Which is to use Rig Control to do the program change and to turn anything on or off

- I found another cool bug in the editor that was stopping patch steps being enabled, so you'll need the new version  ;D

[FoneBone]

Successfully updated to version 2 beta 2.... but for an unknown reason I'm still not able to upload bankstick files via the editor (when use feedback from core is selected). When I deselect it, the blocks were send, but in the end the core don't reset. When I reconnect pedal board after this update the new bankstick file was'nt updated... My only solution is the use of sysexbox for the upload... don't know why.

To the other problem:

I've found in my manual

The HD147 always sends and recieves at MIDI channel 1.

and... but this is MIDI SysEX....

To transfer the present settings of your amp, you have to push TAP TEMPO and one of the Bank Buttons (A, B, C, D).

I really don't know, if this will be helpful, but I know that the original FBV (Floorboard of Line6) recieves this settings.

Btw. Yesterday I've connected my POD2.0 via MIDI to my PC. By pushing the bank buttons, the MIDI IN window of MIDIOx recieved some (more than one) messages. I guess my HD147 will do the same ;D

And one last thing:

Cool updated connection schematics on the wiki. The only thing I don't understand is, how to connect stompboxes. Wouldn't it be easier (without hard wiring) to implement some kind of true bypass circuit?

At this point I only have to say thank you....  ;)

[Durisian]

...My only solution is the use of sysexbox for the upload... don't know why.

It seems like an output midi port issue... (whether it's something in your computer or my software I don't know)

Does the LCD say a bankstick is being updated?

What's your computer spec?

Could you try sending the upload to midiox. Midi Yoke can allow you to do this.

If you tell midiox to recive a manual sysex dump, And start the upload (without using feedback) it should recieve something like 38000 bytes.

really don't know, if this will be helpful,

Yep , i'd say that's it. The edit buffer command

Now here's the really hard part, I need to know what that message is. I'm sure line 6 arn't going to be very helpful, i'll see.

How many messages?? (approx)

Wouldn't it be easier (without hard wiring) to implement some kind of true bypass circuit?

Not sure what you mean, tell me more. I was going with replace the switch in the stompbox with a PB relay (I have some stomp boxes I can't live without). That way making them controllable with rig control.

A more common use for the relays would be amp channel switching.

thank you....

no problem ;D

[FoneBone]

Does the LCD say a bankstick is being updated?

Yep... "PC updating BS 0/1"

What's your computer spec?

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+, ASRock MB, 2GB RAM, LogiLink USB MIDI Interface, Win XP Pro

Could you try sending the upload to midiox.

I have tried it, but Pedal Box Editor crashes always, after pushing Send button.

 TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT               
 00011CDD   9  --     B0    0C    05    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CDD   9  --     B0    0D    28    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CDF   9  --     B0    0E    32    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CE0   9  --     B0    0F    74    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CE1   9  --     B0    10    48    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CE2   9  --     B0    15    00    1  ---  CC: 21 (E-MU)         
 00011CE3   9  --     B0    11    68    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CE4   9  --     B0    18    50    1  ---  CC: 24 (E-MU)         
 00011CE5   9  --     B0    17    66    1  ---  CC: 23 (E-MU)         
 00011CE6   9  --     B0    49    7F    1  ---  CC: Attack Time       
 00011CE7   9  --     B0    19    00    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CE8   9  --     B0    1A    7F    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CE9   9  --     B0    1B    7F    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CEA   9  --     B0    25    7F    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CEB   9  --     B0    26    20    1  ---  CC: Data Entry LSB    
 00011CEC   9  --     B0    27    2E    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CEE   9  --     B0    28    40    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CEE   9  --     B0    29    5C    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CF0   9  --     B0    2E    00    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CF1   9  --     B0    2F    00    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CF2   9  --     B0    2D    7F    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CF3   9  --     B0    2C    00    1  ---  Control Change        
 00011CF4   9  --     B0    47    01    1  ---  CC: Harmonic Content  

That's what MIDIOx shows in the MIDI IN window, after changing one amp to another (in POD2.0). I haven't my HD147 at home, so I have to try this later. But I was wrong. When I change the bank (ex. 1A to 1B) it only shows:

 00059DCA   9  --     C0    02    --    1  ---  PC: Elec Grand Piano  

Not sure what you mean, tell me more.

As I understand your schematic of switching stomp boxes on and off by the relays, you have to go into the electronics of the stomp boxes, or am I wrong?

True Bypass would mean, your stomp boxes are always ON. You would just use a switch to bypass them, like a MIDI Switcher / Looper would do. Take a look at the first picture. There are 3 switches in the middle. When they are OFF, the guitar signal would go thru, without passing any (or maybe much less electronics). The idea is, to controll these switches via MIDI in your pedal board. So you need some send and return jacks, and one in and output jack for the guitar (pic2).

[Durisian]

That's what MIDIOx shows in the MIDI IN window, after changing one amp to another (in POD2.0).

It looks like amp settings to me...

All that needs to happen is to enable midi input for pedal board.

I can attempt to enable the midi input

yep - Try this pbx2beta2aDEV

Don't enable LED Digits, it won't complie do to lack of memory

I have tried it, but Pedal Box Editor crashes always,

damn

True Bypass would mean, your stomp boxes are always ON....

I'm having a bit of trouble following the scematic, but I understand the concpt.

I like it.

Actually... yeah - flo is working on something like this.

Although his method will mean it won't be directly compatible. But will be a good source of info

[FoneBone]

Try this pbx2beta2aDEV

I've tried, but nothing happens :( Next time I will connect the amp to MIDIOx and test the MIDI INPUT while pressing TAP and A,B,C, or D? Maybe this will be more helpful. I guess the normal preset change didn't send any MIDI data. We will see.

[Durisian]

ah well, worth a shot

you should be able to test if midi in is working if you change some settings on the pod. they should show up on the lcd (like amp or cab type)

[FoneBone]

jup.... that works.... when I push the preset buttons of my POD it shows for 1A = Patch2, 1B = Patch 3....

changing the amp type or effect doesn't shows up anything.

[Durisian]

great!

that's the channel issue I mentioned. Both master and device are set at the same channel.

If you set your fbv custom channel to 16 you should see the appropriate text for your hd147

The master bankstick channel is pretty much irrelevant for pedal board, it's more for use with pedal box. But it comes first in the recieve chain, so it will override any device bankstick on the same channel.

hmm... It will also be hindering you pod amp settings being recieved properly. If the pod is indeed sending them out

[FoneBone]

Cool.... it works as you told.

By pushing the preset buttons of the POD, pedal board now shows the preset names of the HD147.

When I select an amp- or effect type, pedal board recieves more than one MIDI message. In case of selecting an amp type the messages end up with the speaker type.

Great!!! And why isn't it possible to enable the LEDs? Has the PIC to less memory?

[Durisian]

cool. yeah, it's right on the edge of code space.

LED's should work fine. It's just the Digits that can't be enabled.

[FoneBone]

LEDs work fine... I will try this version of pedal box / board in the next days with my HD147.  ;)