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elSID stereo = semi-minimal CS layout


sineSurfer

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hi, so I came up with this layout for a mbSid stereo(V2 app) trying to get in there the controls I think I would use on a live situation.

The plan so far:

Minimal CS with original C64 keys  - working already -

Up/down switches for bank and ensemble patch change

Play/Stop arp switch plus tempo led

Left and Right SID channel switches

4 switches with "selected" led status to change on the fly the functions for a row of 7 encoders

1 switch to control the first five items on LCD screen (fossi's suggestion)

elSID3_3.jpg

All input is welcome:

am I missing something crucial?(besides the matrix and a lot of led visual feedback)

what would you add on the remaining available space?(a Pactec PT10 is already used so no space to grow)

Is this layout feasible in terms of coding?

Any suggestions, tips, code samples? <- I'll appreciate any of this as I'm not even close to scratch the code surface, a lot of learning ahead for me.

thanks!

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Looks really good :D

Some ideas from my side (might be biased as hell from all the working on the sidLive):

* add a LED for the Layer-Layer

* as TK pointed to me, an ensemble up/down button is pretty annoying to get through 128 ensembles

* replace it with one button, which would serve as a shift button - hold it down and spin the menu encoder to change ensembles

* the up/down arrows are off-center ;-)

* the section right to the LCD isn't aligned with the two knobs (the cutoff, resonance ones)

what would you add on the remaining available space?

What remaining space? It's full. Don't add anything major anymore or it'll ruin the minimalistic-factor ;-)

Is this layout feasible in terms of coding?

So far, definitely possible :-)

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Very nice, clean design.

Some ideas from me:

* rename layer "CUSTOM" label to "KNOBS" (it's called Knobs in the menu and manual)... then maybe label the encoders "1" or "#1" in bigger font perhaps?

* the "ASSIGN 1" etc. knobs I assume are the same as the Envelope Assign layer, which currently change the first 5 displayed parameters on the screen, which is what your "LAYER" layer does already. Although you can reassign what they do in the firmware (i.e bind to a dedicated parameter).

* label "ENV/LFO" doesn't make sense. The knobs are the Osc Misc layer. I suggest "OSC/LFO".

* layer "LAYER" is a bit ambiguous ;) Maybe "DISPLAY" or nothing at all (you know what it does, it doesn't need a label!)

* probably a bit too much of a suggested change (sorry, can't help it), but... I'd aim for the display and the select buttons to align with the knobs, so that the middle select button aligns with the 3rd knob. You could shift everything in the top half (except the keys on the left) slightly to the left... optionally moving the keys on the left to the right of the menu encoder. You'll have to decide if you prefer the knobs and display and select buttons aligned with themselves, or the display and select buttons centred on the panel... but it can't hurt to try out alternate arrangements.

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Okay, I dug out (and upgraded) the old design I was talking about in the chat earlier. Not as hip as yours but still nice ;-) I didn't create this because I wanted a big-ass quad box back then :D Here's some problems I assumed I'd encounter and some of the thoughts I had, some of which might be relevant to you as well:

* implementing the layer function is fairly simple (whee!)

* it would be nice to jump to the oscillator menu page if the OSC layer is activated (easy as well)

* you don't really have an OSC layer though. You have a combined OSC/FILTER layer. Which means it won't work like that (you can obviously still jump to the menu page when a value is changed). I ran intop the same challenge with the combined Filter/LFO section

* as wilba pointed out, aligning the encoders with the LCD would be nice.

mini_thumb.png

2039_mini_png7ed99b4bbd8d151826213c4585f

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Very good work! I should add a special page to the user manual to introduce such layout ideas, because many thoughts went into such designs which should be highlighted.

* layer "LAYER" is a bit ambiguous ;) Maybe "DISPLAY" or nothing at all (you know what it does, it doesn't need a label!)

* probably a bit too much of a suggested change (sorry, can't help it), but... I'd aim for the display and the select buttons to align with the knobs, so that the middle select button aligns with the 3rd knob. You could shift everything in the top half (except the keys on the left) slightly to the left... optionally moving the keys on the left to the right of the menu encoder. You'll have to decide if you prefer the knobs and display and select buttons aligned with themselves, or the display and select buttons centred on the panel... but it can't hurt to try out alternate arrangements.

I would prefer such a centered arrangement as well, so that the 5 encoders directly correlate with the displayed values. This would be especially important for the "display" layer.

Coding: changes have to be made in cs_menu_enc.inc, cs_menu_enc_table.inc, cs_menu_buttons.inc and cs_menu_leds.inc

I would propose to play a little bit with the existing code (e.g. change the order of encoders) to get a feeling about how difficult it is. There is no 1-2-3 documentation available, sorry.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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* you don't really have an OSC layer though. You have a combined OSC/FILTER layer. Which means it won't work like that (you can obviously still jump to the menu page when a value is changed). I ran intop the same challenge with the combined Filter/LFO section

you are right! On the other hand: when the encoder is moved, the CS handler will jump into the appr. menu page as well. It isn't a perfect handling for jumping between different menu pages (as values are slightly changed), but in practice it doesn't really hurt (especially because CutOff/Resonance/LFO Depth/Rate are high-resolution values)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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The button to jump to a layer could also be used to toggle between two pages, so you could see the parameters without moving one of the knobs. i.e. pressing the Osc/Filter button if you're on another layer will take you to Osc or Filter page depending on what you were last looking at, pressing it while you're on that layer will switch between Osc and Filter pages.

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Thanks TK, fossi, Wilba!

One bad thing about this design in particular: as I used part of the C64 keyboard to hold the keys there is not much I can do to move the keys around, which leaves less space for the rest of the components and makes hard to align the encoders to the keys, would be to tight to move them easily... but hey, I like the keys hehe.

...one button, which would serve as a shift button - hold it down and spin the menu encoder to change ensembles...

this can be implemented on the BANK button too, right?

Coding: changes have to be made in cs_menu_enc.inc, cs_menu_enc_table.inc, cs_menu_buttons.inc and cs_menu_leds.inc

Now I know where to look for... next thing is to find out what to look for  ;D.  and it looks like fossi is exploring that code with great success... good for me:)

...On the other hand: when the encoder is moved, the CS handler will jump into the appr. menu page as well. It isn't a perfect handling for jumping between different menu pages (as values are slightly changed), but in practice it doesn't really hurt ...

seems to be a good compromise... i'll think about it some more to see if it's worth to have the 2 extra encoders or is best to go with just five encoders and more space between each encoder.

...The button to jump to a layer could also be used to toggle between two pages...

ahh, nice one!

will work some more on the layout with all the ideas.

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  • 2 weeks later...

small update:

found some problems when trying to run the V2 app, check here, but now it's all ok.

The wiring is almost done and I built a test panel on cardboard to check if everything fits nice in the box... all fit!!, now, the plan is to start a new thread in the following weeks with pictures and the relevant info for tips, troubles, etc. as a build Log.

The new thread may be in tandem with nILS's box info("mxSID" is the box name still?) as both boxes have a lot of things in common and he helped me a lot with comments and tips all the way ;D

It would be interesting to have both designs and construction processes side to side for everybody to see the steps we went thru to build  the two boxes with almost the same functionality but different looks, sizes and certainly different approaches. ;)

and a picture:

2290436192_bbf459cfb2_b_thumb.jpg

2128_2290436192_bbf459cfb2_b_jpg742abf8e

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Looking good - love the cardboard panel ;D

...and he helped me a lot with comments and tips all the way ;D

Helped? Not really - I just told you my opinion and you incorporated some of it into your nice ui concept making it a really, really nice ui concept ;-)

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  • 8 years later...

Hi there fallenturtle!

Sadly I don't have inside pictures but let's see if I manage to explain it well enough.

I took off part of the cs64 keyboard structure (lots of dremel work) there, don't remember exactly but seeing the keyboard layout I guess it was the F keys + some of the top row  and flipped it.

The hacked thing was put together screwed to a diy pcb with proper traces to register the keys, and pin headers to connect it to the core.

Btw. later on I noticed I could have gone with single key switches from an office calculator, I bet the plastic thing that holds the key in place is the same size or close enough to glue the C64 keys in place.

Search for replacement switches for calculators like this ones, they may work:

ARB121PD_H.gif.jpeg

olympia_cpd_5212_01.JPG

Edited by sineSurfer
typo correction
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  • 3 weeks later...

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