macsaif

SOLVED! Simple and stupid mistake. I had to adjust to scan 4 shift registers! Now I have to decide wether I am switching to NG and implementing velocity curves, pitch bend and modwheel calibration and control of octaves, midi channels and break is make function via din port or keep it as it is and will solve all these things in the second board. Some things to consider: 1. How can I reach faster reaction (latency)... Keep the board on MidiboxKB, lead the output of the board to the secons modules inpit where the octave transpose and midi channel routing will be solved... Or install NG on the first board, make all controls based on the inputs in one board with 10 times slower keyboard scan and connect the output of the board directly to the sound module 2. How to solve that there is running continously a signal fro pitch bend, modwheel and expression pedal switching between close values, 0-1, 126-127.....isnt there any simple filter function which filters that changes in value smaller than the defined number in the defined time rangr will be not recognized and sent to output? I have seen the function which limits the time between 2 events however it does not solve the problem just limits the evets sent to the output. 3. Make the circuit to calibrate the pitchwheel and modwheel or connect them to the second board running NG. Why these things (point 2 and 3)are not implemented in KB? I think it is not so complicated to program it, or am I wrong? Frank

Is it possible that the shift registers are not passing trough the whole line of information(From Nr 4to output of the 1st). As I have measured by the oscilloscope I can see the inputs of second shift register on the QH output of the first shift register but the inputs of the third shift register can be measured on the output of the second shift register,on the first register there is no effect.The same for fourth shift register....I see its signals on the outputof the third register however there is not recognizable on the output of the second register. I think in the configuration file it is adjusted correctly (I have configured 1-4 shift registers) . Is it possible that the "Paralel load-LD pin of 74hc165" signal which is set fromRC pin(PB12 of STM32module) is sent after 16 cycles of the clock signal and not 32(I think for 4shift registers it should be 32)?

Here is the matrix scheme I have made on separate PCB. The conversion to 20pin connector of 73keyboard is done directly on the pcb there is no any separate board for it. If I made some mistake there I think it has no any effect on the shift register 3, it should work the same way as shift register 1 and 2. and as I have told earlier the lower part of the 73keyboard is working on shift register 1 and 2 but the shift register 3 is not working with any of the keyboards (61 or 73 keys) matrix.pdf

Today I made some measurements with the odigital oscilloscope. I think the configuration file is OK now but I am still not able to start up the second keybed on the shift registers 3 and 4. On the sift register 1 the lower part of keybed 2 with inverted diodes works. I have measured the signals passing trough the shift registers and I have found an intersting thing. If I play only the keybed 1, and measuring the QH output of the 1st shif register (connected to STM32) I nicely see the signals going to the processor. However if I play the second keybed, the signal is nicely measurable until SER pin of the 1st register (Signal coming from the QH pin of 2nd shift register) than on the QH output of the first shift register it is lost, I see no effect but if I am pushing more keys on keybed it turns the output to log 1. The signals coming forom keybed 1 are still noticable. And here I am lost. Do you have any idea or experience with 2 manuals connected to STM32F4? Thank you in advance! Frank

I have started the study the possibility to solve the scanning of 2 keybeds and few additional functions with Midibox NG. 1. Do y need SD card reader connected to STM32F4 module (it is written in the NG manual that it requires an SD card). Basically I will do the same functions as with th Midibox KB, just I want to add Pitch and Modwhell calibration, implement a velocity curve for 2 keybeds (the same curve for both) and implement the scanning of the digital inputs of the core module to switch on and off some functions of KB (Make is break, Octave +-, Midi channel selection) 2. Is the programming of Midibux KB the same under Midibox NG, or it is completely diferent? Is there anybody who can send me a sample code under Midibox NG? 3. How can I implement velocity curves, is there any example? Thank you in advance! Frank

Thank you. I have found 2 HW problems: 1. 5V was not connected to the 3rd 74HC165 (1st 74HC165 of the second DIO Matrix) 2. The SC pin on the second DIO Matrix was connected to O8 of the 1st 74HC595 and SER to second 74HC595 instead of SCLK pin of both 74HC595s. Now it is corrected. Still not working. My questions: 1. Is it possible that some of the IC are damaged due to these mistakes? 2. Is it possible that te 1st board is working with Pull up and the second is working with pull down mode(inverted and not inverted mode)? Frank

I bought it at company which is dealing with manufacturing of custom synths (I can not tell the name). They had it for testing however cancelled the production and they had on stock one remaining keybed and they sold it to me. It was lot of searxhing and emailing with many manufacturers and stocks. Regarding my problem: There are 2 connectors for 61 keys and 2 connectors for 73 keys the directio of shiftvrwgister is the same: low61, high 61, low 73, high73. When I plug the lower part cable to the 3rs connector (where it is plannwd to be) nothing happens. When I plug it to the firat connector it works. So maybe there is some configuration problem of the shift registers or some hw problem in my board. I have enclosed the configuration, please check the configuration of the shift registera, maybe therw is a problem. Frank

Hello again, some update: 1. It seems that the make_debounced on helped. Now I am not recognizing this problem 5. I have tried to plug the the first board of the 73 key keyboard to the plug for the 61 key keyboard. Reconfigured the settings to scan the matrix with reversed diodes, changed the jumper for pullup?down resistors. It is working, so there should be some other problem, maybe the configuration or some HW problem. Here are my settings, maybe somebody with more experience will find the problem in the configuration: set kb 1 note_offset 36 set kb 1 rows 8 set kb 1 velocity on set kb 1 optimized off set kb 1 dout_sr1 1 set kb 1 dout_sr2 2 set kb 1 din_sr1 1 set kb 1 din_sr2 2 set kb 1 din_key_offset 32 set kb 1 din_inverted off set kb 1 make_debounced on set kb 1 break_inverted off set kb 1 delay_fastest 20 set kb 1 delay_slowest 100 set kb 2 note_offset 28 set kb 2 rows 12 set kb 2 velocity on set kb 2 optimized off set kb 2 dout_sr1 3 set kb 2 dout_sr1 3 set kb 2 din_sr1 3 set kb 2 din_sr2 4 set kb 2 din_key_offset 32 set kb 2 din_inverted on set kb 2 make_debounced on set kb 2 break_inverted off set kb 2 delay_fastest 50 set kb 2 delay_slowest 1000 set kb 1 midi_ports 0x1031 set kb 2 midi_ports 0x1031 set kb 1 midi_chn 1 set kb 2 midi_chn 4 set kb 2 ain_modwheel 6 set kb 2 ain_modwheel_inverted on set kb 1 ain_sustain 5 set kb 2 ain_sustain 7 set kb 1 ain_expression 1 set kb 2 ain_expression 3 set kb 2 ain_pitchwheel 4

Please send to macsaif@gmail.com Thank you in advance! Frank

Thank you for the answers. Another issues found: 1. I will try thes command and report 2.I have tried values in range 20 to 500 however the keybed response is far away form my old roland a33. Maybe the velocity curve will help 3. I will try ng however originally I wanres to use kb because of better response (velocity, scanning) 4. Same as 3 5. I have made the adaptor. The lower part should work without adptor however there is no any response. I am continuing to find the mistake 6. New issue. I have recognized that the analog iputs are sending continously values even there is a pull ip or pull down resistor. 0-1 or 126-127 etc. Is there any function which filters out the small changes in short time? Thank you in advance Frank

Hello, just made the board including 2 mio matrix modules to scan one 61key Fatar Tp 8o and one 73 key Fatar TP 8o. The 61ley keybed is working, on the second one I have to check few things, it is not working. However I have somw issues with the 61key part too: 1. Sometimes happens that after releasing of keys the tone is still playing. I have to press and release these keys to stop playing these notes. What can be the reason? Maybe the active optimized key scanning function? The board is configured according to the sample code ob the midibox kb page. 2. What are the optimal min and max delay numbers to achieve the best velocity response (do you have experience with tp8o?) 3. Is there any option to add velocity response curves? 4. How to calibrate pitch and mod wheel? When I start this option the program is freezing 5.Now I am working why the second kb is not working... Are there any parameters what I have to adjust whe I have 2 kwyboards (shift registers are set to 3 and 4). Thank you in advanve Frank

Hello, is there anybody who can answer at least the question how can I scan DIN on J10A or J10B and switch on/off the "Make is break function" separately for Key1 and Key2? Of course in runtime. The best should be if somebody could send a sample code how to scan the J10 in Midibox KB (If it is possible). I am not a programmer expert so I would need some help. Enclosed the mechanical status of the controller. Thank you in advance and sorry for my "amateur" questions! Frank

Hello, I have tried to ask on several forums however without any final answer than I have found this forum. The situation is: 1. I have started to build a 2 manual midi controller with inbuilt GSI GEMINI sound module. The project is mechanically ready and 80% of the PCBs are ready and built in. The lower manual (KEY2) is 73 key Fatar TP8O with reversed diodes and the upper manual is 61 kex Fatar TP8O. 2. I will use 2 Midibox modules. The first with Midibox KB for scanning of 2 keybeds and the second one with Midibox Ng for scanning of the control buttons, storing presets (CC values from the pots and buttons and Program change parameters) and working as a Midi Router 3. Upper manual will be assigned to Key1 Midi channel 1, Lower manual will be assigned to Key2 - Midi channel 4, 1 pitch bend wheel with modulation will be assigned to KEY2 and both manuals will haveseparate Sustain pedal and expression pedal inputs connected to direct AIN inputs J5A, J5B 4. I want to make possible to activate and deactivate the "Make is Break" function by activating a Digital input on J10A or J10B. Is it possible to do with Midibox KB? If not I have to install relays to shorten the Make and Break buses physically (It works, I have tried it) 5. My other idea was to implement other functions, see the link and the enclosed files!!! http://midibox.org/forums/topic/20687-midibox_ng-and-kb_transpose/?do=findComment&comment=180349 This week I want to start to make the PCB for Midibox KB board, it should be good to have any feedback if it is enough to calculate with 2 digital inputs to J10 or I have to add relays for contact shortening! Thank you in advance! Frank midi.pdf Architecture.pdf

Does it mean that there is no any possibility to scan the digital inputs on J10A and J10B? The minimum I will need is to switch on/off the "make is break" function separately for both keyboards. This week I am making the PCB. It would be necessary ti know if it is possible or not. Otherwise I will make this function by shortening of make and break buses by relays. 10 contacts for 73keys and 8 contacts for 61keys. It wirks because I have tried it on my Roland A33 controller! Frank

Do you think all the mentioned controls (in the midi.pdf) can be implemented in midibox_kb? Otherwise I have to use midibox_ng which has slower scanning frequency of the keyboards.

For better understanding, I have made an input bit map I want to use on Midibox KB board. It will be connected to Midibox NG board (16 outputs to 16 input bits). The first 6 bits are used for octave transpose of 2 keyboards. The next 3 bits are used for Midi mapping of keyboards. The important part is that I want to make possible to split the lower keyboard exactly on place where 2 boards are splitted on the keybed. Do you think can it be realized by the Midibox KB? Thank you in advance Frank midi.pdf

Hello, I havw been redirected to this topic by FantomXR. I have had questions about transposing (octave changes in - 2 to +2 range) in runtime. It should be done by switches connected to inputs of midibox kb board. I am building a 2 manual hammond clone based on GSI Gemini sound module. One midibox ng for storing/recalling of patches and scanning of buttons and pots, one midibox kb for managing if 2 keybeds( upper manual 61 keys, lower manual 73 keys). The project mechanically is ready, now I am prwparing the PCBs. My additional questions are: 1. Is it possible to send data from one keyboard to two midi channels paralelly? I want to add layer option to the controller. 2. Is it possible to split the 73keyboard (it is made from 2 pcbs connected by 2 ribbon cables) tge split point is exactly where I need to have. The lower part should send data to Midi channel 3(assigned to pedal engine in Gsi module) and the upper part should send data to Midi channel 2(assigned to lower manual in Gsi module). This mode should be switched in runtime mode. When I switch off this mode the whole keybed should work whitout splitting and send Midi data to challen 1or 4. Thank you in advance

Hello, thank you for the quick ansqer. It sounds good, therefore I have not to use realays shortening the make and break array. Is there any script to set the midi channel for each keyboard and control it by switches? Also I want to make possible to switch -2, - 1, 0, +1, +2 octave transpose, is it possible to control it from some inputs? Frank

I have seen in the KB manual that there is an option to set fast trigger for the connected velocity keybeds. I will use 2 keybeds connected to the board. Is there any possibility to switch on and switch off the fast trigger option everytime I am switching between piano or organ sounds on the sound module? I think I will connect 2 switches (1 for upper and 1 for lower manual) to the digital inputs... When I need the fast trigger mode I will switch on, when I need velocity mode I will switch off the switch. Thank you in advance! Frank

Hello, I am building a 2 manual controller. I am using for upper manual a 61key Fater TP/8O and for the lower manual a 73 key Fatar TP/8O (on that manual the diodes are inverted-I had to do it because I have used it with a Roland controller board which had an inverted logic than the standard Fatar). My questions regarding the Midibox KB: 1.Is it possible to reconfigure the controller during play (not at initializing) for example by activating/deactivating an input of the board: - configure to which output channel I am sending info from which manual (1, 2, 3, 4 or 1+4) - cinfigure low trigger mode separately for each manual (when I play organ sounds) - Adjust octaves +/- 1-2octaves - Configure pitch bend and modulation wheel - to which midi channel they are sending data (1 or 4, or both) - Configure sustain switch and expression pedal in - to which midi channel they are sending data (1 or 4, or both) 2. How do I have to wire the connectors on the keybed with inverted diodes? - or it os better to resolder the diodes Thank you Frank

You recommend to use core STM32F4 for both applications? I am little bit confused: 1. It is mentioned that the driver is optimized for LPC17 can it be used also for STM32F4 with the same scanning freq? 2. What is the difference btw. MidiBox NG and KB? Is it just firmware loaded to chip? Frank

I have made the drawing of my modified concept. 1. The first board should be used to work with 2 keybeds and 1 pitch weel, 1 mod wheel, 1 sustain pedal and 2 expression pedals 2. The Velocity On/Off function will be solved by shortening of buses to scan the 1st and 2nd contact of the keys. It works because I am using it with my existing 73 key TP80 keybed. 3. The second board will be used for storing of 8x8x4 presets (for selection of presets I will use 8 bank+8 preset+4 variation buttons it means for selection of the new preset I have to press 3 buttons). The same buttos will be used to send simple program change parameters (8bank x8preset x 2variation for upper manual and 8bank x8preset x 2variation for upper manual ). For activating this mode I will need one more button. The rest of the buttons will be assigned to CC parameters. By selection of presets I will send prog change parameters to Midi Out 2 for Midi channel 1 and Midi channel 4 (this is preadjusted midi channel in GSI GEMINI for 2 sound engines). In the preset also will be adjusted that which potmeter and button to which CC parameter will be assigned) 4. The other function of the second module will be to convert receives key on/ key off messages(changing midi channel, changing octave - based on the selected preset) input Midi IN1 ---- output Midi OUT 1 Is it possible to program Midibox to provide the mentioned operations (module 2)? Frank midobox-r1.pdf

I have another idea. I will use the KB app as it was designed with 61 key upper manual and 73 key lower manual. Upper will send datas on channel 1 and lower will send datas on channel 4. I will connect the midi out of this module to another module which will have 2 midi outputs. Midi out 1 should have the function to Transfer and modify the datas from kb module based on the choosen preset for example: 1. From lower keyboard to change midi channel 4 to channel 2 and after split point to channel 3 2. Octave up and down function by changing for ex c1 to c2, etc. The midi out 2 will have the function to send program change and control change parameters based on choosen preset and based on the position of the potmeters and switches. Do you think is it possible? The other question: is it possible to configure the KB module to switch between velocity on and off mode based on some digital input to the module? If not I can do it simple way...by shortening of 2 rows scanning the first and second contact of the key by relays. I have tried it with the existing master keyboard and it works. For 61 key I need 4 and for the 73 key I need 5 relays with double contacts. Frank

What is the reason that I can not use the app for key scanning? Could it work without the 61key manual (just 73 keys + switches and leds)? In that case I will not need the midi pcb because it will be enough only 1 MIDI output and if I am right it can be connected directly to the motherboard. Frank