monokinetic

Hi all, I have all my DINX4's working for my sequencer, thanks as ever to the help here. However Im having DOUT issues now :) Im running the DOUT tester application, I have connected one LED to the D7 connector of each 74hc595 to check each chips behaviour. The problem is that all 4 chips are lighting when I use the encoder to scroll to the D7 output. It looks pretty but not what I would expect! Using my basic logic tester I seem to have a problem with the connection running from the pin labelled 08 on the schematic of the 1st DOUT chip to the SFR input of the next chip. It seems the connection between the core S0 and the 1st DOUT SFR pin is working fine. If I understand correctly the 08 pin of the 74hc595 is used to multiplex the chips and allow the pic to address lots of DOUT's? But my chips seem to only have a logic signal on the 08 pin when I send the appropriate message from MIOS using the encoder. I have therefore removed all the ICs and PIC from their sockets and measured between the 08 pin and SFR pin of each DOUT and the +5v and Ground pins. This seemd to be the logical way to test for a short as found in my DINX testing! However I can find no short and the hardware behaves as described above. Hmm any ideas anyone? are my assumptions correct? In the meantime, happy new year ;) I shall not expect a reply for a few days.... :D Kind Regards Dave mK

Allo, well after days of scraping flux and building yet another DINX4 and it still not working I rebuilt a very simple logic tester (i will post the link later). Using this I could really measure what was going from the PIC to the DINX4, and vice versa! What I discovered was that the bottom pin of my PIC was infact not sending out any signal :( Luckily I had some more PICS :) and with a quick refresher in how to burn the bootloader I just burnt another MBSEQ PIC and it reads 32 buttons ;))) Phew that was a battle, but well worth it. Off for sleep and looking forward to lots of lights n buttons.... Dave mK

Allo, so Im starting to go slowly insane from searching for shorts :) To fill you in I built a second DINX4 PCB from mike, exactly the same behaviour :( However I built a DINX1 on veroboard to try and eliminate things one at a time. Strange thing is that after a bit of scrapping off flux the DINX1 works fine! Which is a start as that eliminates the possibility that the chips were playing up. And obviously this also means that it isnt a short on the core. I am still using the technique of touching a cable between ground and the inputs on the 74HC165 chips to eliminate any problems on my switch boards. Having gone round in circles for a few days I have just one quick question, the potential problem here is that there must be a short between SC, RC and S1. However my multimeter has a function for measuring continuity (ie it beeps to tell me that there is a connection between X and Y) and I can measure no continuity between the CLK and LD pins on the DINX4's. Am I right in assuming this means there are no shorts? Only other thing I can measure is that between QH and SER there is 20k resistance. But I assume this is correct because there is R9 on the core which is 10k and then R33 which is also 10k. So now I really am running out of ideas, anyone? Oh and moebius thanks a lot for always answering, the logic probe I built was very simple and didnt detect pulse trains, just logic high/low. If I cant sort this out I will build a more complex one. Anyone recommend a suitable logic tester? Regards all Dave mK

I just reread this thread which I had contributed to over the summer and it seems that someone took my comments about going to the beach the wrong way. Because this is my favourite forum Im upset to think that FX3 would consider my comments worthy of getting upset about. I really was off to the beach. I spent over 6 months very carefully testing 2 JDM pcbs and could never get them to work. Any time I posted up for help I ensured that I had searched the invaluable forum well before posting caffeine induced sulky posts. Then martin very kindly posted this helpful solution and I did manage to burn the PIC chip at gone midnight knowing full well that my flight to Spain was less that 6 hours away. So I wasnt being flippant :) it was true I was taking a well earned rest to read and relax. Thats how come dont need to post aggressive replies to such a wonderful community.... Just setting the record straight as some may have misinterpretted my summer post! All I can say is that this is the most helpful web community I was ever part of and it would be a shame if it developed into another forum for sulky people ;) regards Dave mK ps the suntans faded now!

Hi all, thanks for the various suggestions. Just for information I found that if I drill a hole in the veroboard I can poke the leg of the encoder through and then use this to clamp the encoder to the veroboard a lot more securely than the solder would have done. Plus I dont have to remove 32 legs from my nice new encoders :) regards Dave mK

Hi moebius, thanks for taking the time to answer, I tried to idiot proof my 1st post so atleast others can learn from my mistakes ;) So I removed all dinx's from the core J9 connector, I then measured the resistance between each pin, particularly the SC and RC pins. As expected there was no reading which would suggest I have no shorts... no? The only resistance I can read is between the 5v pin and the S1 pin but that is just the 10k R9. I built a simple logic tester to try and work things out. It seems to work fine (the tester!) so I measured first the SC and RC pins of the core J9 (still no dinx connected) and both light up the diode to say there is a pulse there. What seems a little strange to me is that there is also a pulse on the S1 pin. I followed the schematic and there is the 5v connection to this pin so maybe that is lighting the tester? Oh and also if its of any help I tried to monitor what the midio128 application transmits when I hook up the DIN and short the only functional pin to try and work out if the core is reading all buttons being pressed (which would suggest a short between SC and RC) but it only transmits one midi event when the button is pressed. I have treid all of the 74HC165's I have here (9 of them!) but all except one display the same behaviour, so I assume all but the 'dead' one re functional, I will buy new ones to eliminate this tomorrow. So now Im really stuck. My core seems to be transmitting the SC and RC signals but still no button action for me.... Anyway Im off to make some music rather than trace signals, if anyone has a suggestion what I can do now I would be extra grateful :) regards Dave mK

I hope it doesnt seem pretentious to answer my own message (Im quite used to talking to myself!).. but to confirm I have spent three days now building 2 different button boards, populated another DINX4 PCB from mike, exactly same problem. Tried breadboarding a DINX1, same problem.. In each case there is no resistance between pins 1 and 2 of the IC socket, the chip is getting power and the pins are being grounded when a button is pressed. Me I duuno! Off to bed to read something analogue (with pages and everything...) D

Wow I'm really amazed it worked ;) If you really want to be sure that its worth ordering another board (and lets face it the photo suggests smashTV should expect the order!) then if you try removing the chips from the DIN board and use a multimeter set to the settings you would use to check resistor values (ie ohmeter) and then measure between the 1st and 2nd pins on each IC socket. (check the DINX schematic to identify the pins). AFAIK if you get any reading other than 1 it suggests you have a bridge between these tracks and therefore the core cannot shift the stae of the pins... However let me reiterate just incase noone saw my post of Friday: I do not measure any resistance between the tracks on my DIN board and yet still it only picks up the D7 pin/IC pin 6. Im going to build a logic probe to try and detect if there is any output from the core along the tracks of the DINX4. Am I heading in the correct direction??? Anyone? Good luck mb944 with the new soldering iron :) regards Dave

Hi there, It sounds like you have the same problem as me which I have described in a post here: http://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=troubleshooting;action=display;num=1101405166 Im afraid I cannot offer a solution as I have had this problem for over 1 week now! So if anyone is reading this and can explain how to use a logic probe to try and trace this problem I guess we would both be grateful :) Have a look at my post to see what I did to try and solve this problem... By the way which piece of software do you have loaded onto the box (and how did you upload it if you have no midi interface!)?? Lets hope someone can help us ;) regards Dave mK

Hi all, well after the weekend of mounting encoders Im now having DIN problems! The 1st question I have is about voltage, my core is only delivering 4.71v to the chips, is that enough? So before posting this mail I had a search through the forum and found this useful information about testing the DINX4 boards: http://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=troubleshooting;action=display;num=1096139044;start=15 I found that I measured resistance between "CLK and the LD pin of each 74HC165 socket" (to quote TK) so after some serious examination of the board I did find a couple of microthin shorts. I scratched these off and then tested all pins of all the sockets for this short and it seems to be ok (ie my multimeter is set to ohmeter and the display remains on 1 when measureing accross the pins). I then tested for continuity between the core J9 pins and the sockets (ie on the DINX4 PCB supplied by mike the power is running to the correct pin, the correct pins are grounded even those with the wire links on the bottom of the PCB, the pins which are connected to resistors all read the correct resistance) so I uploaded the MIDIO128 application. However even though my button board seems to ground the appropriate DINX pin as expected still I get no reaction to buttons attached to the DINX. I ruled out dead chips by swapping out to 4 new chips but all give the same response - nothing! Next I found a page on the forum (cant seem to find it at the moment sorry i cant post the link) which mentioned tapping the S1 pin of J9 to ground. The MIDIO128 application does display a change on the LCD to indicate that when I ground the pin briefly something is recognised by the core. Also if I ground the 1st pin of the 74HC165 on the DINX4 then again the display changes..... but the rest of the pins do nothing when grounded. So currently Im collecting parts to build a logic probe as recommended somewhere on the forum. My problem is that Im not too sure what I use a logic probe to check on my DINX PCB!!! Can anyone give me an idea of what to look for next? Tonight Im going to breadboard a DINX1 and see if there is any difference but now Im a bit stuck what to do next..... Anyone got a good idea? Thanks in advance Dave mK ps If anyone is interested I found this link which has helped me understand exactly what shift registers do.... http://homepages.which.net/~paul.hills/Software/ShiftRegister/ShiftRegisterBody.html shame Im still not clever enough to fix it ;)

Hi all, so work on my sequencer continues, I wont bore you with the details of where Im at, we are all busy! But my question is I have my encoders as supplied by voti (very good service by the way...) and I have almost finished the veroboards (sometimes called training board, basicly the brown boards with holes and lines for want of a better description!) with switches etc. Now Im trying to work out if its better to attach each encoder to the front panel using the supplied nut and washer or if they are better just soldered onto the veroboard? The reason I ask is that the encoders have somekind of "clip" on the bottom which stops me from just mounting them, the only way I see to attach them to a veroboard is to use some pliers and pull these bits off but that seems a little aggressive..... Anyone do this already? Did you pull off the the little clip bits? Thanks in advance Dave mK ps I am going to make a diagram of where to mount the componants on veroboard to make them match to TK's front panel design. Is there somewhere I can upload the pictures to?

Hi all, been enjoying the sun and away from my soldering iron but now the winter evenings are drawing in Im back on the case! So todays pure parts question is: Has anyone got or seen working one of these screens: www.everbouquet.com.tw/MC4002D.htm Just wondering before I go spending my hard earned cash :) Kind Regards Dave mK

Hi all, I just wanted to say that after almost 6 months of twiddling with my JDM module without success today I used the simple broccoli programmer to burn the bootstrap! I can whole heartedly endorse this programmer, it is very simple to build on a breadboard and seems a lot less fussy than my JDM. I would like to thank Martin Haverland and moebius for answering my initial questions and helping me to not be paranoid about blowing up my music computer :) I just downloaded mios also, it responds correctly to sysex messages so now all I have to work out is how to compile (and a million other things!!) and soon I will be a happy MBSeq owner :)) Hope you all have a nice summer, Im off to the beach!! Dave Moss

Hi martin, thanks for the speedy response and encouraging words! The reason Im double checking about the capacitor is because I have three local suppliers and they all told me that they dont stock electrolytic caps at such low farad values. The smallest cap I can get without resorting to mail order is a 0.5uF electrolytic. I think I will try this as a matter of interest and hopefully I wont fry my PC :) If not I will have to order one from the net.... more info to follow!! Dave M

Hi all, Im very interested in this new PIC programmer, gave up with my JDM and whole project has been on hold ever since! I have the first few idiotic questions, hope they dont drive you too crazy ;) The message says to not forget to calculate the resistor value, I have checked the voltage put out by my paralell port by using a multimeter and running the broccoli portdiag software. How do I calculate my resistor value? Just to check because I am not 100 percent sure what Martin means by an "elko" capacitor. The only 0.1uF cap I have is a ceramic disk type, my guess is this should be suitable as the schematic doesnt seem to indicate a polarity for the cap. Is my basic electronics logic correct?? Anyway I look forward to the help and who knows, before 2010 I may have a PIC with the bootloader burnt ;)) Kindest Regards Dave mK

Hi synapsys, your message has confused me a little, as far as I am aware the JDM is a PIC programmer, the schematic you seem to have quoted from is the Core module isnt it? maybe im misunderstanding you but to clarify my question has anyone had any better success programming PICs using the LVP mode? and still looking for someone in London/Prague to help me program a PIC ;) regards Dave mK

Hi synapsys, your message has confused me a little, as far as I am aware the JDM is a PIC programmer, the schematic you seem to have quoted from is the Core module isnt it? maybe im misunderstanding you but to clarify my question has anyone had any better success programming PICs using the LVP mode? and still looking for someone in London/Prague to help me program a PIC ;) regards Dave mK

Hi all, well after 2 months Im close to giving up on the JDM module. Yes before you flame me I have been through all of the testing pages and help on the forum, however I cannot get it to work. A friend has recommended the tait programmer found on this page (www.finitesite.com/d3jsys/ ) which uses the LVP mode of the PIC. Before I start building another frustrating thing can anyone tell me if this makes the programming porocess less sensitive to voltage.... also if anyone is in London next week and able to program a PIC for me (so I can test my core module!) while I work out how to do this myself? thanks in advance Dave mK

Hi all, well after 2 months Im close to giving up on the JDM module. Yes before you flame me I have been through all of the testing pages and help on the forum, however I cannot get it to work. A friend has recommended the tait programmer found on this page (www.finitesite.com/d3jsys/ ) which uses the LVP mode of the PIC. Before I start building another frustrating thing can anyone tell me if this makes the programming porocess less sensitive to voltage.... also if anyone is in London next week and able to program a PIC for me (so I can test my core module!) while I work out how to do this myself? thanks in advance Dave mK

hi mr smash, thanks for the info, means I can unsolder that diode in the hope of organising this thing :-) I also appreciate the offer to program my PIC, Im in europe tho and from memory you are in the US of A... but if I get really desperate expect me in your local airport :) kind regards Dave M

Hi all, I wont bore you with my JDM problems but before you tell me to read the previous posts etc I have been through everything from the last 300 days on the forum.... But I found somewhere that maybe I can try changing the 8.2V diode I have installed for a 9.1V. However I cannot find anywhere which has Schottky 9.1V, only Zener. Is it worth me trying this avenue or should I ask someone nicely to program it for me..... regards Dave

Hi there, This is a bit off topic but hopefully relevant to the SID noise discussion! I have been looking into a few simple mixer circuits on the web (http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/stereoinputmixer.html) and trying to get my head around the theory of operation in regards to people recommending tanatulum capacitors (see the previous SID noise discussion). I was wondering if the choice of capacitor size changes the audio quality? The reason I ask is that there is 1000 percent price difference between 0.1uF and 47uF tanatlum caps ;) Looking forward to someone more knowledgeable to reply! regards Dave mK

Hi TK et al, so Im in the depths of planning my first MBSEQV2, I will save my excited rambling for later because I would prefer to solder ;) but I have conceptual questions before I drill my front panel. I am building a cheap sequencer based around the minimal concept mentioned in forum recently. Having poured over the webpages for a looooong time now I am going to try and use just 6 buttons and a rotary encoder on the physical box for control of essential functions i.e. navigating menus, selecting parameters etc. I think from what I understand these buttons will be the edit, mute, pattern, song, select and exit buttons. I think LEDs would be most useful on the 1st 4 buttons only, I plan to use the remaining DoutX registers to drive midi activity and beat LEDs. Can anyone see any flaws in my logic (dont all rush at once!). I will not use general purpose buttons in this first box and therefore I will have a DinX1, DoutX1 and all other buttons will be setup on my other controller. Just before I get the drill out can anyone tell me if this will be usable or should I aim for 14 buttons and the encoder? For example is there somewhere within the menu system which will let me start the sequencer or will I only be able to start it using the midi remote functions? Thanks in advance Dave mK

ello brad, blimey those look wicked man! And you reackon you can get some cheap huh?? very interesting mate! :) I can sympathise about that overpriced island, was born n bred there but moved to Czech Republik 2 years ago. Do you think we could arrange some kind of transprt over here (for loads a money obviously!!)... let me know and we can discuss off list if you prefer! speak soon Dave mK

ahoj adame, helle jsem anglican ale mluvim tosku cesky ;) mam otazku, jsem v praze ale mam strasne problemy z JDM programmer, mate to? sorry if the Czech is bad but im studying! and yes TK is the king of controllers!!!! cau D