cheater

Hey guys! I read the latest messages/posts on this topic. Very interesting stuff, we're finally floating away into the abstract ;) What my dream MB TR SEQ would be: 16x16 LED buttons (although i'm definitely for adjustable rows with min=1 and max=+oo ;D ) Each row either has its own pattern of up to 16 steps, or continues the pattern from the row above it if the row above it has a pattern exceeding that row. Each row has a small 8x1 LCD next to it. The LCD shows what the track's controlling (e.g. Snare or HiHat or BassDrum....). If the row isn't the first row for a pattern, the LCD is turned off (backlight off) - would be a great visual cue to see where patterns are placed on the controller, especially in unlit dance clubs. An endless encoder for "scrolling" rows. E.G. you could have 128 or what ever rows and scroll around them. This would be most useful for people who have only 1, 2, 4 rows and want more control. Scroll up = top row goes to 2nd row, 2nd row goes to 3rd, ... nth falls off the surface ;) Analogously scroll down would do the opposite. A knob for accent amount for each track wouldn't be needed - IMO the accent should always be sending the same thing, and you should set up how your synth/drum machine/etc reacts! Not the pattern. This enables you to have separate accent control per each device. However a global accent amount knob would be nice. A knob for flam amount/mode/pattern (you could have different patterns/modes/flam amounts) and one for shuffle amount. A switch for changing whether the surface is showing steps, flam, or accent, or a special "trigger mode" which works like NI Battery's GUI: each button = 1 track. LEDs light up accordingly when the track has a hit/flam/accent. Would be a great alternative step-wise pattern entry mode (not for live performance purposes, but definitely a nice tool to see your patterns in a different way!) Two tempo buttons (+-1 BPM) and one endless encoder for changing the pitch +-0.05 BPM (for sync to DJ stuff). Easy and fast change between patterns (very important! part of the performance abilities of TR sequencers): perhaps a separate keyboard or something. MIDI out (no AOUT needed for me). Speaking of AOUT: You guys don't need continuous AOUT. It just has to send stuff in certain moments. So why not use 1 DAC and e.g. 16 or 32 buffers(buffers? sorry I'm not an electronic engineer :) ) which then fire off at the right moment? They will all send their stuff at once and that's what we want. I was thinking a bit more about the shuffle stuff I've been talking about earlier. If you want 128 ppqn resolution of shuffle (which as I understand it would translate to 128 parts/pulses per step), and each step should be arbitrarily settable to one of those parts (128 parts x e.g. 64 steps = 8192 positions total) you could use an easy algorithm. But first, why 128 ppqn? Because that could give fluid transitions between "no shuffle" and "max shuffle". The algorithm would be as follows (please don't laugh): (press play on sequencer) $i=0 startpoint 1 $shuffle = read 8192 bits from $shuffle_storage[$k] //$k = knob value, 0...127 startpoint 2 $f = read bit from $shuffle[$i] if($f) then advance step $i++ if knob value $k changes goto startpoint 1 else go to startpoint 2 of course that has to be synced to some timer somehow. I'm not an ee person so I wouldn't know how this works. However: 8192 bits x 128 knob positions = 1048576 bits! that's one megabit! that's way too much to store! or did I make a wrong calculation somewhere and multiply too much by too much....? :) Perhaps another idea to make shuffle patterns possible would be: 1. make a "max shuffle" pattern. You have 64 steps. Each of them can be moved by, for simplicity's sake, + or - 256 pulses (so + or - 2 steps max for some craziness). a possible algorithm to make this work would be: (press play on tape)//sorry C128 times come to mind ;) $shuffle = read table from memory $step = 0 startpoint 1 $shuffle_max = $shuffle[$step] $next_step_position_float = ($step * ppqn) - ($shuffle_max * $k/128) // $k = shuffle knob position, ppqn = 128 probably //(**) $next_step_position = floor($next_step_position_float) // cuts everything after the decimal point and gives an integer $waiting_time = $next_step_position - $old_step_position //(*) wait for $waiting_time at 128 ppqn at the BPM we have set advance step in sequencer //$step++ happens here go to startpoint 1 pros: less memory taken up by shuffle table cons: - multiplication, division, usage of floats and rounding of floats all in one step. can PICs have floats? how great is the penalty? - would have to find a way to check if steps aren't overlapping or handle them (if they are overlapping, i.e. we get a negative/zero on line (*) - we should just run the step at once perhaps? ) - shuffle happens linearly ( :( :( ) - non-linear shuffle would be the greatest stuff since the TR sequencer itself, to me. however perhaps it could be somehow emulated by usage of a gamma value for each step, so transition from 0 to max shuffle for that step could take upon some non-linear shapes. the line marked (**) would be more complicated then. If you don't understand what I mean by non-linear, think about it kinda like curved envelopes with the curvature settable. flam could happen in a similar fashion. you could control it, from zero to max.. the transition would be e.g. adding volume (or rather velocity) to the further hits, or spreading them out (more frequent or less frequent hits). You could have 1, 2, ... 5, ... hits. As many as 128 ppqn would allow... Whew! Hope I haven't bored you guys too much! Thanks for reading! I know there's something I'm forgetting........... ;D

Hahaha! :) That definitely gets thumbs UP! That's crazy, man! :) Now make a modular synth and pretend it's a telephone patch central ;)

Hey TK, thanks for the reply :) I'm looking forward to a year-long sabbatical and it might give me time to tinker with things like these. But now ---> sleep time. 2.40 here and at 9.15 I get my hair cut... :) as for confused users: a help button that would explain what options mean in the menu could be... very profitable... display simple text and scroll using a rotary (data wheel?) or something... :) good night TK!

But I do use envelope followers often! They're fun. But they're not really what you might want, as they don't really reshape the music - they just let you change the dynamics a bit. You mention your calculation. I looked at the calculations too. If you consider changing the mode of one track to that "other LFO mode" I'm talking about (through a flag in the menu somewhere or whatnot), you could squeeze out 96 bytes = 96 steps that you could interpolate between. 96 steps is a lot for a single bar in fast music like techno, trance, etc, and it's also a lot for slower types of music (where, on the other hand, the transitions don't need to be that fast and responsive). At 145 BPM one bar is little over 1.6 seconds (1.6551724137931034482758620689655...). With 96 steps over that time you get around the update frequency of 58 Hz. That's impressive. It's more than you could ask for. You get that 16*step resolution (actually 24*step), if you decide to squeeze the thing in such a way that the whole "LFO pattern" covers four steps. Any additional info you could want is: CC number, BPM division/multiplication (for sync), interpolation mode (for very long cycles - e.g. BPM/16 speed), midi channel and... that's all? Sorry if I'm still ignorant of something! Just trying to let you understand the idea that's in my head. About the step editing: It's just an alternative idea. If you don't like it, you don't like it ;) It's just a general way I edit patterns.. I start up with a general pattern (e.g. four notes to a bar) and then cut up those notes and move them around and make chords in some places, and then look at that, and cut it up into even smaller pieces (4th 8th 16th... 32nd, even 64th sometimes). What you can get is really weird, weird stuff - especially if you sequence chords in 64th progressions. Not to bore you with that though :) And the menus... when changing the step amount of the pattern... maybe you could hold another button and it would "divide up" instead of "enlarging" the pattern? Wow, that's a lot I've written. I really sometimes wonder about your patience and especially endurance reading dumb ideas like these, TK ;) MfG :) Damian

obsessive reporting ;D sample playback can be easily heard in the MD, I think it's all only 8-bit samples at no more than 32 kHz (just a rough guess) ...water drip torture? :)

Definitely exposure is the only way to get some fresh blood with MB SID. And it seems YouTube is a great way to gain a lot of exposure :) - even if the buchla on the same page is more exciting than the MB SID to some, a photo of it will never win with a movie of MB SID :) Thought of voice overs of what you're doing there on the movies? Let's hear the sexy voice ;) Hmmmmm... :) I take your word for 3 years then ;) perhaps linking up multiple MB_SEQs would be an option? also: perhaps editing 1,3,5,...,31 and 2,4,6,...,32 would be a good option - some people might want to find the rough stuff out and then add a step "in between" the existing steps to add variation. What I mean is: you move the knob around and it's recorded in "real time", e.g. 10-20 frames per second, for the duration of the pattern's single repeat. Of course that would have to work with the step-seq-ness of the MB SEQ, so I guess it would probably mean: record the controller data at 16x the "step resolution" of the pattern playing (to keep it hi-res). If you've heard some techno by people like Surgeon or Laurent Garnier, you can understand why and how to use such sweeps. I don't even want to comment how great it would work controlling the EQ of a mixer - play a (repeatative) techno loop through the mixer and shape it with the EQ and gain, running a loop as well, in sync with the music... that's been my dream for several years :) It would be like having ten hands. I can do that with one, two, perhaps three knobs at the same time (controlling two knobs with the right hand and really concentrating) - but I often play back 6 tracks from Ableton, and I don't have THAT MANY hands ;) also it would free me up to do other stuff... and that's the aim... be able to do more stuff... shape the music beyond imagination, in real time :) Cheers, D.

Hey TK! That's a great demo! I've actually happened to stumble upon it on YouTube - first I was looking at the FSOL gear list, then searching for some of the gear on google (looking it up)... then ended up on a website called matrix synth which happened to feature your MB SID demo as a youtube embedded video. When I went to look at it in YouTube to read the comments, I noticed the MB SEQ demo in the links.... and then, I watched it. This brings me to two realizations.... 1. You Tube really made movies *possible* on a large scope in websites. Putting a video on your website has never been easier (now that there are no bandwidth considerations and no problems with embedded players' compatibility) 2. It's cool to promote... people, if you have a camera, post your demos on You Tube! :) More interest for the ucapps projects! TK: the midibox projects have come a long way. I must say most projects simply declass a lot of commercial stuff, and things like the Midibox SEQ are so new (and so wanted!), they simply have no competition. Thanks to TK and the MIDIBOX community :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) Questions to TK: 1. how did you make that synth patch? I've been trying to do something like that for a loooong time... no success! 2. since the sequencer will feature 32 steps, will it support 32 knobs/etc? Perhaps two rows of LCDs (with the bottom row offset to the right to line up with a lower row of 16 offset knobs) And perhaps.. an addition to the wishlist.... if the SEQ is playing, and you'd manipulate a special knob, the movement for this bar (of 16/32 steps etc) would be recorded and later played back like a MIDI LFO of sorts (unless you move the knob - then that part where you move the knob would be "overdubbed"). think it would be very nice for controlling e.g. notes with the step sequencer and filter or distortion or some other effects with that LFO-thing. This would work best if the resolution was higher than one update per step, best if you could controll it fluidly. No idea if this is possible - due to RAM constraints.. but perhaps if you could switch a track to that LFO-mode it would give you just enough memory to do that? If you got this far TK, thanks for reading :)

If anyone needs help with dynamic html or web programming overall, give me a holla

It's like playing vibrato on a Stradivari and putting an LFO on a VCA. Those two things really aren't supposed to do the same thing. Anyone who thinks they do should get sharper :P

I think you guys got it all wrong here.. Shuffle in drum machines isn't supposed to "emulate a human being". It's supposed to add rhythmic variety, as sequenced by the person who made the song. Techno composers have used offbeat drums since day one, and it's not because they want to sound like human drummers alright... It's just another quality you can change to make the song sound or feel differently. Like the shape of an LFO or the type of filter, for starters

mmm yeah... even though groove/shuffle with late notes only would miss a lot, that's an idea to take upon

Stay focused. A does-it-all is pointless and often useless in live situations.

But that's exactly my idea as well: the knob sets the velocity of notes you'll click :) I was thinking of it more performance-wise - set a track to a shuffle "table" and then, once it's set, change the amount of shuffle with a knob while performing your song - but it could be more than "shuffle amount", the shuffle wouldn't need to linearly apply to the pattern. It would be like this: knob at 0% - no shuffle. going from 0% to 50% - you add shuffle to every 4th step (3, 7, 11, 15). Going from 50% to 100% - you add shuffle to steps 2, 6, 10, 14 while the shuffle to 3, 7, 11, 15 stays how it was. Can you dig it? :)

I like the idea with the small buttons. However... How about just chaining sequencers for more? Then you could put one next to the other to have 64, 96, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096 or more steps ;) What I'd like would be a led matrix which would show which step for each voice is on. Accent: you have to realize there are two kinds of "accent". Some TRs had global accent - a single "accent" track where you selected "accent" (in the selector where you selected between instruments) and each step where it was turned on, it accentuated everything - the most common 16-step seq that did that is TB303. Some had accent for each voice separately (it was like a third state of the step - "off"/"on"/"accent"). I think the second idea is better. However, perhaps instead of having to click twice to select "accent" for a step, and have to edit in a menu what velocity that would be, a more hands-on approach would be nicer - where you'd have a knob that would select what velocity you would be setting the current steps to. You could easily make rolls that way, brushing your fingers over the buttons while turning the knob up - but that's just one idea. Shuffle: personally, I'd *love* something like "groove clips" in acid 5 mutated into shuffle. Those groove clips work like this: you open up a normal-looking bar of, lessay, 4/4 metrum. Each 1/4th or 1/8th has a vertical line representing it. You can drag those lines around, in such a way that those "bends" are kindof smooth. You can make notes earlier or later. So what it actually would mean for the sequencer would be: if the sequencer is 96 ppqn, a normal straight beat would mean "play each step 24 pulses after the previous one" (we're assuming the resolution is the same as midi resolution here, for simplicity). A groove clip would then be able to say, "the 3rd note is after 75, instead of 72 pulses; and the 11th note is after 260, instead of 264 pulses". To save PIC processing time, an algorithm (in a PC app for example) could compile such lookup tables for each (of lessay 32 possible) "shuffle" knob positions. Those table-sets could then be uploaded into a PIC. Those tables could also contain other info, like gate time or some CC info. It would be like a wavetable of wavetables really. Thanks for reading all that! Cheers :)

how did you break them? when bending? perhaps the aliminum is oxidized. try better leds. try harder/softer glue.

Hmmm... interesting info! thanks!

Just wondering... anyone got a dvd with the "broadway" version of the logo? And could rip the 5.1 version for me? :P so i can get sued by lucas film... ;)

Great, thanks for the reply! As for the beer... Too late! A guy on IRC pointed that out. And he didn't know about the beer either ;D But you get this! Just the beer though ;)

http://cheater.no-ip.org/cheater/stuff/unisound6-03.wav it's a sound i got stuck in my head.. i think it's from the header of some movie.. like before the movie starts, the movie studio has its logo shown.. and that's a sound from that thingie! i'm pretty sure of that so, i made a sample that's.. as near as how i remember that. note the synth sound might not be the right one... a general string sound. it's a C major 9 going to a C major 9. 5 instruments, and the notes are gliding... C3->D4, D4->C3, E3->B3, B3->E3 and G3 is in the middle untouched (it glides to itself :D) the person to find that sound for me gets a beer! though it might take a bit before i can get you a non-virtual one :P virtual instruments, virtual effects... virtual beer... ;) best regards help me get away from insanity this sound is driving me nutz

If it's encrypted.. perhaps you need to grab it off the datalines it's being sent through... maybe it'll be decrypted there? Just a dumb idea..

I can't figure out if it's vertical or horizontal... if it's vertical... I wanna see you play chords with that thing ;) OTOH, there could be new interesting chords possible due to the small size of this thing! I'd advise you to make it horizontal, and one octave per row - this way you could e.g. play an arpeggio and then, going down one octave would just mean going down one row. Easy! Also playing some chords could be easier this way :) Like playing C2-C3-D3 cheers! Damian

:( great! :) Humm... don't go down the route of style over substance... it's easy to get lost in that! Multitimbrality? :) Looking forward to that! cheers :D Damian

Such a tight setup might be bad for your equipment.. it'll be a case.. so it'll be bossed around.. but if it gets hit at all, such a tight placement of things might mean it's bye-bye :(

Okay, thanks :)

That's great! Thanks a lot! The sequencer is getting greater and greater every day.