This N°9

I start this thread to have a place to fix the places/names for pages on the new wiki. I found some (links) where I'am not sure if they point to the correct place, or if this fits the original idea of the namespace - structure: this should be fixed as quick as possible, because these links also appear in the templates, and will be re-used now again and again: links on :home:mbhp (should they be in 'mbhp' namespace or in 'home' namespace?) I post them as they are now: [[.:etching_pcbs]] [[.:mbhp:parts]] [[.:mbhp:skills]] [[.:mbhp:preparation]] move [[:stryd_one_preparation]] and should be broken up and compiled with [[:home:basics]] as required //what has to go where? [[.:soldering]] [[.:constructing_enclosures]] [[.:mbhp:troubleshooting]] [[.:troubleshooting_apps]] maybe durisian can give the right answers

@just phil I would do it this way: - copy the source from the appropriate template from new_wiki_layout:... - create the new page, paste the template. a lot of links are already setup in the templates. - copy the information from the old page and paste it into the template. - check all internal links to go to the right place inside the new namespace struct (even if these pages to not exist yet.) I saw you created the page 'home:mbhp:module:core', I think it's absolutely the right track to start from the existing pages like 'home:mbhp' and then follow the links that have no target page yet and create them. For the core and other modules module http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wikify:template:module would be the appropriate template to use. Just copy the information that is already on the old page to the new one in some way that it fits in. the internal links, for ex. [[MIOS_PIC18F452|PIC18F452]] for ex. should be changed to [[home:mbhp:pic:18f452||PIC18F452]] ehmm... I think you are just finding out all this by your own while I'am writing this... In some moments I'll start a new thread for unsolved pagenames/places. There are some (on the home:mbhp page for example), where I'm not sure if they are linked to the right target now, or what was the original idea.

just found some info about namespaces: http://www.dokuwiki.org/namespaces so I'll try to change links in the new wiki pages to relative ones where it makes sense.

@stry_one: I'm not sure, but maybe It would make sense to change the 'root' namespace that you created in the file-manager also to 'home', to make the whole thing more consequent. now would be the time for that, because if there are lots of files already linked, it's much more work.

hey Just Phil, I'am also quite new in the midibox-project and just did some work on the wiki. There's a project whose target is to port the existing wiki pages into a new layout. There was a discussion about introducing a namespace concept that allows to build up the new wiki in parallel to the old one. you find the discussion in the following thread : http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,12537.0.html http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/new_wiki_layout'>http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/new_wiki_layout gives you all the templates needed to build the new wiki pages. there are also instructions on the top of this page. also read the info on the wikify-page http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/wikify'>http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/wikify which shows the new namespace concept. This is also the place where in future all the info about how to write/modify/add wiki-pages should be (wikify:template:module, wikify:template:project etc.) the entry for the 'old' (current) wiki is just http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/ or http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/home , the entry of the new wiki is http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/home:home , this page will be moved to http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/home when the new wiki is ready to go live. all the old wiki pages use no namespaces, the structure is flat, example: old page: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/din_module -> new page: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/home:mbhp:module:din by using 'home:' as the basic namespace for all pages (execpt wikify:* ), the new wiki can be built up in parallel to the old one without having name-conflicts. I'm quite new to this wiki-stuff, but I think with the templates and all it's quite easy to get an idea of the whole thing. here you find all about the wiki syntax : http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wiki:syntax I'll now check my today work again (porting new pages to home: namespace) and maybe find out some new stuff (f.ex. is it possible to make relative links inside a namespace?), and of course fix stuff that I maybe screwed up (hopefully not). I think the prior job in the wiki is to port the old pages to the new places with the new layout. As stryd_one said in the thread above, it's more or less copy-paste work, and maybe reloving redundant information, make things more tight etc. So I propose that if there are questions from your side, you post them in this forum. regards, this

right you are... it's too late now :D changes I made: - moved already existing new pages (e.g. home:project:synthesizer:midibox_fm, home:mbhp:module:din) - updated all templates under wikify:template: and new_wiki_layout: - updated instruction information on new_wiki_layout / wikify I'll check again in 1 hour or so if I missed something.

so this is a 'go'? If yes I maybe find some time tomorrow (after sleeping)

I'm not that up to chat, but I'll take a look inthere some time.

should the group 10 also have delete perms? currently I cant delete files. No really need for that, but it would help to clean up uploaded stuff that is not needed no more (saves also server-space).

ok, didn't get that. there's a lot of information floating arround, so I can't get every piece of that. this would be a 24 hours job ;)

thanks a lot. upload works, I also can create new namespaces.

I agree with that. If somebody wants to create a new page, (s)he just has to go to the page explaining the namespaces. this takes about 1 minute, I think writing a whole new page documenting for ex. a new project takes a bit more time, so learning about the namespace struct is really the smaller part. and.. namespaces are not really a very complicated issue. everbody who uses computers is used to folder structures. so instead of having module_din etc. you jsut have module:din, which is not much difference. clear rules are easier to understand than no rules at all, or kind of rules that underly some strange arbitrariness. and if somebody oneday creates a page with a name outside this structure, it's a small job to move it to the right place. I think this is a missunderstanding. forget about root, it's just about having a 'basic' - namespace for all pages 'on top' of home. I tried to explain my 'namespace-vision' here, it also explains why I vote for 'home' as the basic namespace: so the new_wiki_layout could be deleted when the 'old' pages are ported to the new struct/layout. all infos about how to edit/add wiki pages could be reached by 'wikify'. this then should be linked at a promintent place (I suggest 'home' !). Like 'If you want to edit or add wiki-pages, read this first: [[link to wikify]]. As said, reading the basic wikify-rules would take a user 5 minutes or so. I can't understand this vote, if you wana link a page, you have to lookup it's name anyway, and in most cases, you will copy/paste this name. so if you copy 'module_din' or 'mbhp:module:din' is really no difference. And besides I don't understand why this issue comes to discussion now, there is already a namespace concept set up and documented, I don't know how it came to that, and if there was a discussion before this concept was set up, but I think it's a bit late to discuss this issue now? why? what does it say? baze of what? I think there should be clear arguments why a namespace has just the name it has. I think the discussion has gone into a direction that is blocking my wiki-work right now. I need some more statments and go's or no-go's.

Just read your other posts in the namespace-thread. I'll post my comment to the file-namespaces there: http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,12537.0.html

I see it the other way round, like: removing the 'new_wiki_layout:template:module' and keeping the 'wikify:template:module', as this one will be needed in future for people who create new module (or project) pages. so the ':wikify' namespace is just the place where people can read how to do stuff for the wiki. I think the new_wiki_layout is just needed so long the new wiki will be in 'setup state'. once it is released, all the stuff still needed as information how to wiki can be moved in the ':wikify' namespace. all the basic pages will be there then, and no template for these will be needed no more. what do you think (and all the others) about these proposals for the 'basic-namespace' ? me personally like ':home' the best, for the simple reason that these pages are all in some kind subpages of 'home'. here's my vision how the namespaces / pagenames finally should look: -home [in dev state, this page is called :home:home, to release the 'new wiki', just copy it's content to 'home' and remove ':home:home'] -:home:project:.... -:home:mbhp:din -:home:mios32 .. .. -wikify -:wikify:template:project -:wikify:template:module -:wikify:xxxx it's not that much work to port the existing struct of the new pages (if it's done now!), it's still just a few pages and links that have to be changed. to do it later would be a big job. and for me it's just a good way to learn dokuwiki, I have to setup one for a customer in my get-enough-money-to-live-job soon. so if you give me a OK, I will change things this way. Maybe we need some other opinions? I don't understand this completly. Isn't it possible to link files form anywhere to anywhere? For my part, I can see files and link them on my page, even if they belong to a completely different namespace. Why have to files to be moved arround? UPDATE: comment to the 'root' namespace for files: basically I like the idea, but as I said, I don't like 'root' that much, 1st because it isn't the root (in the filebrowser you already have a [root]). I don't know yet if you like my namespace-concept, but if you do, I would propose to do it the same with the files, like: '[root]:home:community:this:m...' '[root]:home:mbhp:din:layout.jpg' '[root]:home:picture_for_home.jpg' '[root]:wikify:picforwikify.jpg' so the files in the [root] could be general files like midibox-logo etcetc. , or no files at all.

thanks for uploading, I find the files now! but why this weird path ':root:community:this:midi_mapper' ? the 'root' I mentioned in the mail was thought to be the [root], means really the root of all the wiki-files.. anyway, you may have good reasons to have done it like this. thanks again for uploading. how nice would it be to do the things that you really like (and I think this implies that you do them well), and as a 'side effect' get money from it!

don't forget to give a statement to my proposal, don't just explain the status quo. If it is confusing, I think the best would be to make it less confusing for everyone. ;)

I wouldnt' have mentioned this if I was the only one who has criticts to this way of uploading stuff. That's why I quoted narwhal. Fact is that you never said a thing like "Twin-X will give you write permission, until then use the email". You just ignored my request to gain write permission.

some more: redundant information: 'new_wiki_layout:template:module' vs. 'wikify:template:module' 'new_wiki_layout:template:project' vs. 'wikify:template:project'

I think this information is a bit confusing. for pages like mbhp:module:din this might work. but not for pages like ':mbhp' etc. because the new and the old pages use the same name. In my eyes this is excatly the kind of thing that leads to messy results. I propose this solution: - namespace 'new_wiki_layout' stays untouched and serves as template as written above. - introduction of a 'root' namespace, under which all new pages can be created. best would be a namespace that has not to be changed when the porting is finished. some proposals for the root-namespace : ':page', ':root', ':midibox', ':mb', ':home' Like this only the 'home' - page has to be renamed at the end, and the whole new wiki can be created in parallel to the old one with the proper links. If this is found to be a good idea, I will offer to setup / port already existing stuff this way, and changing the information quoted at the start of this post (and update the page 'wikify')

ok, this seems not to work. won't it be easier for everbody if you just give write access to people who need to upload files? quote by narwhal:

@ stryd_one: oh shit man, for you it's later moring now, right? 10 hours before me, have to keep this in mind..

@ stryd_one: I tried to use the magic email address (last night), did you receive something, or did the mail got lost somewhere? no need to hurry, I just wondered.

I thought about this too, and I also prefer to have infos about one issue as compacts as possible. But I think the goal of having the combined table is, that you see the difference between the pin mappings of din's and dout's at one glance, I think this is worth a exception. Maybe the placement in the namespace :module is a bit weired, but I didn't see a better quick solution. I wanted to avoid underscore because it looked like the new page names should try to avoid these. but what you say makes sense. one thing is, that no parsing is done for the content of the boxes, also no automatic linebreaks. This causes the scrollbars if your screen / browser window is too small. I'll change this and use normal paragraphs. one guideline then should be, that the content should not be too wide. If there is a way to disable the scrollbars, this would be very nice. do they fit into the new layout? Maybe they are not meant to be a part of the new layout concept (graphically). What durisian says to this? ok, I just read on the wiki-syntax page, that the code-tag is just another way to disable the parsing. I'll read some more.

here's to ported din & dout - table: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=mbhp:module:dinoutpins'>http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=mbhp:module:dinoutpins I don't know if this is a good place to put the page, but I didn't see a better in the namespace structure. I don't know if some kind of table/lookup/list namespace would be useful. also created the pages for din and dout, and inserted the link to dinoutpins: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=mbhp:module:din http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=mbhp:module:dout Is there some kind of convention when to use these dotframed boxes? I just used them to frame/pack statements and code-snippets.

hm.. I would prefer to keep the din/dout table as one table, not to split it to din & dout. one good reason is, that it's a long table (if we keep all 128 pins in it), and some additional information top of it, so I think it's worth having it's one page. I think I'll find a good place for it in the namespace tree. Just protest if you think I'am doing crap.