jooks

I will use these Omron B3W with green leds for my mono 6581 sid. Comes in many other colours aswell. Price is not their strong point though...

I will roll up my sleeves and hook up the test pins ;) I´m so glad for all the help here. I would have no chance at all solving this on my own! I got the "ready" message 4 start ups in a row after maybe 4 "black bar" start ups. After that no more "ready" message... I have already tested resistance for socket pins and they were all 0.01-0.02 (on lowest setting, can´t remember what it is now) but I will do it again since I was in a bit of hurry. It would be great if it´s not the crystal or caps :)

What would I do without you Wilba? Probably something less fun then building a MB6582 ;) Here are the results from sweden: Crystal says 10.000 (same as for the other cores, smash tv part kit) 33pF caps Both connected to ground (J4) Connectivity ok between crystal pins and pic/cap pins. No shorts to nearby pins. No connection pin 25 to pin24/26. Pin 25 connected all the way to R7 I will put in new caps in C1/C2_CORE2 tomorrow and if still needed order a new crystal (no electronic shop here :()

Today I tested midi in/out with PIC#0 (proved to work) in core2. No signs of interaction in mios studio :( (no upload request in midi in monitor). When trying to upload the mb6582 hex from mios studio (smart mode) it doesn´t seem to upload anything but alot of numbers and letters in the midi out monitor (but it doesn´t say me anything really....kinda happy to see something though ;): timestamp [unknown] | SysEx: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 02 0C 00 00 20 15 7B 63 3F 04 6B 5E 1B 78 2B 5D 71 5F 42 6D 6F 0D 7C 1A 4E 78 6F 60 02 77 47 1E 05 3F 3C 39 70 2E 3B 63 4F 02 13 5E 1C 78 12 3D 71 67 41 3F 6F 0E 3C 01 7E 78 73 60 0D 77 47 1E 00 57 3C 39 70 06 3B 63 4F 04 03 5E 1A 78 3A 3D 71 57 43 6F 6F 0D 3C 1F 3E 78 6B 60 1C 77 47 1E 01 5F 3C 39 70 54 3B 63 2F 05 4F 5E 1A 78 3F 1D 71 57 40 24 00 00 00 02 20 00 00 00 12 00 00 00 01 10 00 00 00 09 00 00 00 00 48 00 00 00 04 40 00 00 00 24 00 00 00 1F 7F 79 69 0B 10 00 0D 48 59 08 00 64 45 49 00 05 64 2C 4C 00 2A 22 65 00 0F 32 12 46 00 7D 11 34 00 04 59 11 18 00 38 48 49 48 03 1C 44 4D 00 16 64 44 6C 00 50 22 62 60 05 22 16 14 00 2C 11 31 10 02 71 0B 08 00 21 48 68 00 00 1C 46 40 40 03 24 34 08 00 30 23 20 60 09 12 1A 74 00 24 11 77 70 00 01 0F 39 00 09 08 7B 58 00 7C 48 5E 40 0A 64 45 78 00 6E 24 25 60 09 02 1E 2A 00 57 11 73 60 06 41 0F 3C 00 0B 09 09 30 01 58 46 4E 40 1C 04 40 1E F7 I also (again...) tested voltage with PIC in core2 pin1: 5.20V pin11: 5.20V pin12: 5.20V pin 20: 5.15V pin 25: 4.05V pin26: 5.20V pin 31: 5.20V Pin32: 5.20V Still fumbling in the dark....midi for core2 doesn´t seem to work for some reason but I guess voltages seems ok (or?) pin25 tx: 4.05V must indicate some sort of action but maybe not the right kind of action? I tested connectivity crystal/capacitors C1/C2_CORE2 and pin 14 and pin 15 and that is ok. I also tested ground (vss) to pin 12 and 31 and that is also ok. I think the solder joints look as good as any other and I´ve tried to resolder (mostly reheat) the ones I thought needed it. Not sure what I can do next here....bad crystal or capacitors? I´m very greatful for all help :)

Again many thanks Wilba :) I tested midi out/in on Core 2 last time and got no upload request and could not upload anything but I will try again. I have also checked connectivity for all J15_CORE2 pins with no problems. I have not checked for shorts on those pins. Hmmm, I´m quite sure there was connectivity for PIC pins 35,36 and J15_CORE2 pins but maybe that´s how it should be? I will try again.

Ok, I had some time and resoldered (added som heat) the joints in the non-working U1_CORE2 I thought might need it. Then I inserted the working PIC (#0) in every CORE. Result: working LCD message (loaded MB6582 app) in U1_CORE1/3/4. Black bars in U1_CORE2.....just like before :(. At least this might rule out that there´s anything wrong with PIC#01? I didn´t have my laptop so I couldn´t test midi in/out for different COREs. Will do that later and report. Result for voltage test: U1_CORE2 Pin 1: 5.20V Pin 11: 5.20V Pin 12: 5.21 Pin 20: 5.15V Pin 31: 5.21V Pin 32: 5.21

Thanks Wilba for taking the time to help :) I´ve removed all PICs and measured voltages and continuity again. I get the same readings for all COREs (5.20V on all measured pins except pin20 5.15V for all COREs). I tested continuity for all pins at U1_CORE2 and no problem there (I followed the lines at the Mb-6582 pdf). I´ve also tested ohms for resistors is ok. I´m fumbling in the dark here so excuse me if my questions is strange but can it still be a bad joint somewhere on U1_CORE2 causing the intermittent "ready" message when all pins have continuity and the right voltages (without the PIC)? In my newbie thinking I´m thinking maybe the crystal is bad or the PIC? Or a cold joint? I guess I can only continue troubleshooting by inserting the "working/non-working PICs" in different COREs..I will go over the joints first though..

oops, I´ll stay away from the pin14 then! I don´t think I´ve damaged anything though still get good messages from PICs in CORE1 and CORE3. I will pull the PICs tomorrow and go over the joints. I measured the voltages recomended in the MB6582 manual and it was all ok but I´ll do it again and see what happens. Then some PIC crosschecking. Thanks again :)

Ok, thanks! Actually I got the puller today (ordered yesterday afternoon!!) so my weekend is saved :) I´ll probably try to go over the solderjoints first and then try the different cores with the proven PIC like you have guided me Wilba. I don´t know if this is any usefull info but I tried the other power supply and got some different readings. Still not 100% correct but IC14 voltage was about 1.1V for all cores (didn´t drop for each core like with the other supply) except U1_CORE4 (which still was 0.00V) I´ll post the readings later.

I have no 7805 mounted (it was a misspelling) so that should be ok. I will do this asap when I get the IC-puller. I don´t want to force the PICs out and destroy them (I tried some with a screwdriver and it didn´t feel great). I´m sorry my troubleshooting is a bit random....but since I have to wait some days before I can pull the PICs is there a way the PICs can have something to do with the varying voltages or the intermittent "ready" message from U1_CORE2? Many thanks for the help :) I still have good faith that this will be ok in the end with the great support :)

You are right! I wrote without checking what I actually had... I have 2 7809 and 1 7812 on the board so that should be ok. Btw. I searched and found that 13.49V on J25 is probably nothing to worry about since it´s unregulated 9V+5V.

Thanks for helping Phil! Makes sense with Tx :) I feel a bit better now. But the intermittent "ready" message from U1_CORE2 is worrying I admit. I have continuity for all pin14 - Q1_Core - C2_CORE so that is ok. I still think it´s odd that the voltage drops for every CORE....even if it´s not a true value the steady drop from 3.05V down to 0.00V seems to reflect some trouble. With 0.00V at PIN 14 I can´t expect U1_CORE4 to work I guess? I´m using a C64 power supply (1.7A version for "newer C64). It´s the version with only 4 pins but that is fixed in the revision 2 MB6582 board. I have PSU option B for MB6582 so I have 3 regulators on the board (7805, 7809, 7812) I have checked 5V, 9V and 12V on J4 and they are 5.20V, 9.05V and 11.90V. I have also checked all C8/C28_SID sockets and they are fine at the testing pins with both 9V and 12V. Is there any other place I can measure for more info? Could it be a bad power supply? I have another C64 supply (older version). Might try that instead. /erik

Yep, Omron B3W switches. They were way expensive but as I didn´t need that many it was ok. I haven´t tried them yet but they look great! The front panel is acutally just a testdummy made from plastic. I was thinking black for the real one :) or maybe alu coloured. Thanks nebula for soldering tips! I´m getting more and more confident soldering and I think it´s great fun and kinda relaxing. I´ve noticed the problem soldering those big things and I´ll try to turn up the heat some on those. And yes, might soon be time to make some music again but first I need to get my sid up and running;-) Many thanks for your help Wilba! I don´t know why I wrote “IC†and not “picâ€...it´s the pin numbers on the PIC I´m refering too as you guessed :) I tried to take out the PICs again but decided to wait until I get a IC-puller so I don´t trash them (to tight to get a small screwdriver between the socket and PIC) In the meantime I will try to explain my steps so far a bit clearer. I tested the pins in the mb6582 manual before I put any pics in and they all was ok (5.18V). I then put in a PIC in U1_CORE1 and got a “readyâ€. I also uploaded the MB6582 app and a 6582A in C28_SID1 and got sound out of it! Very very encouraged by this I took water above my head and put in a PIC in U1_CORE2 and U1_CORE3. I hooked up my LCD to J15_CORE2 but only got blocks. I also tested the lcd in U1_CORE3 and got a “ready†message. Then I started a random troubleshooting (newbie as I am;-)) At first I didn´t think it would have anything to do with midiconnections since it worked with the pic in U1_CORE1 but I tested the pins in the midi troubleshooting guide and then got different voltages for the working U1_COREs (1 & 3) and the not working U1_CORE (2 & perhaps 4). Here is the voltage results with no jumper in J11: U1_CORE1 Pin1: 5.18V pin11: 5.18V pin12: 5.18V pin14 (OSC2): 3.05V pin20: 5.13V pin25(Tx): 5.17V pin26 (Rx): 5.18V pin31: 5.18V pin32: 5.18V U1_CORE2 Pin1: 5.18V pin11: 5.18V pin12: 5.18V pin14 (OSC2): 2.74V (3.23V after some tests when the pic started working!) pin20: 5.13V pin25(Tx): 2.74V pin26 (Rx): 5.19V pin31: 5.19V pin32: 5.18V U1_CORE3 Pin1: 5.18V pin11: 5.18V pin12: 5.18V pin14 (OSC2): 2.49V pin20: 5.13V pin25(Tx): 5.16V pin26 (Rx): 5.18V pin31: 5.18V pin32: 5.18V U1_CORE4 (with no PIC) Pin1: 5.18V pin11: 5.18V pin12: 5.18V pin14 (OSC2): 0.00V pin20: 5.13V pin25(Tx): 0.00V pin26 (Rx): 5.18V pin31: 5.19V pin32: 5.18V Some things I noticed: the voltage for pin14(OSC2) drops for every U1_CORE (3.05V, 2.74V, 2.49V and 0.00V). The PIC in U1_CORE2 didn´t give a “ready†message today. I think it displayed the “ready†message for a brief moment when I did the voltage checks and messed around with the voltagemeter on the J4 pins. So it sort of comes and go. When it worked 3 times yesterday it once rebooted with power still on. I´m also a bit worried about the 0.00V on U1_CORE4 Pin25(Tx)....U1_CORE4 is the only one without the PIC in it maybe that explaings something?? I also did some random voltage checks and only thing that made me wonder if it´s right was 13.49V on J25.

After some searching and reading I gather that the 2.74V on IC14 doesn´t indicate any trouble since it´s hard to get a reading due to the crystal. I also think the 3.99V from IC25 tx is not unusal and doesn´t indicate any problem. Or? My first reading at IC25 was about 6.74V I think but it all happend fast and when I tried again I got 3.99V every time I measured. Update: I had some time and compared voltages between the working cores and not working. After 3rd power up I get a ready message from Core2!! I have now got it 3 times in a row. From voltage checks it seems that Core4 will not work since it has the same voltages at IC14 and IC25 as Core2 when it wasn´t working....now when Core2 works it has the same voltages as Core1 & Core3 (that is proven to work) Here is the readings I got: pin14: Core1: 3.23V (tested working) Core2: 2.74V (tested not working) 3rd measure I get “ready†message and 3.23V here.... Core3: 3.23V (tested working) Core4: 0.00V (not tested) pin25 (Tx): Core1: 5.16V (working) Core2: 0.00V (was 3.99V last time I measured with midi cables to midistudio). 3rd measure I get a “ready†message!!! And 5.16V at IC25.....??!! Core3: 5.16V (working) Core4: 0.00V (not tested but probably not working....) My newbines really shines through here. I have absolutly no clue to what is happening??? I´m still happy I have sound from it but please HELP:-) I will continue tomorrow with checking out/reading about the octocoupler. It seems weird that core2&4 have exactly the same problem at pin14 and pin25...

Keep it up. You are our noob role model now Haha, I feel the pressure, no cursing, smoking and such ;) Anyway, I made some voltage tests and came up with this for my non working MB6582 Core2: IC1: 5.18V IC11: 5.18V IC12: 5.18V IC14 (OSC2): 2.74V IC20: 5.13V IC25(Tx): 3.99V IC26 (Rx): 5.18V IC31: 5.18V IC32: 5.18V I guess all should be 5.18V or? Any input is most welcome! Might the different values come from bad soldering joints? I will try to go thru all parts on the core and check continuty and shorts. Some joints look a bit dodgy but not much worse then anything else. I guess it´s hard to judge just by looking though (especially for a noob;-) I also discovered that the optocoupler wasn´t seated perfectly in the socket. I fixed it but it made no difference.

Done some testing and got good and bad news out of it. Good news is I got sound out of it!! Uploaded app mb6582 to core1 and tried it with one sid and everything worked like a charm :) But...core2 just gave me a row of boxes on the lcd and no response in mios studio :( Core 3 is working "ready" and I haven´t put in the pic in core4 yet. Have no idea why core2 doesn´t work. The trouble with resoldering a resistor was on core1. Will go over it visually first but I have to wake up the children now and feed them. Any ideas what could be wrong are very welcome ;) All voltages are tested and ok. core1 :D core2 ???

YES!

while waiting for some parts for the mono 6581 sid I started building the MB6582. And I just couldn´t stop once I´ve started! Just tested voltages on cores, sids, octocoupler etc (5.20, 9.05 and 11.90 seems ok?). Only problem I´ve had so far was soldering a 1k resistor at core r9 but I manage to replace it without destroying anything... Tomorrow I´ll probably hook up the midi to see if it works :P Actually the MB6582 seems an easier build since everything is connected and psu already there! Many thanks for this brilliant build Wilba, smash and TK :) Ordered another 3 6582´s today so I have the option to fill it with 8 if I´d like (my plan is to have 2 stereo 6582, 1 mono 6582 and 1 mono 6581) I´m having so much fun!

I appreciate both picky and supportive comments:) I´m very happy that my soldering seems to work ok but I´m very aware that I have a looong way to go before I´m any good at it. I can´t belive how fun it is though. I´m afraid this midibox stuff will make me spend more time building stuff then actually playing/making music!

I´m building one single sid with step A CS and it will cost me around 125-200 euro (have no final price since I haven´t decided on a panel yet). I have also gathered parts to build a MB6582 and it will cost around 450-500 euro with all shipping, custom fees and such. I have cheap lcd´s and such but shipping and every little part you need if you don´t have anything at home adds up real quick! It´s well worth it though :) (I hope I will get a sound out of them also...)

Yep, I think I´ll have to take a close look at all modules and try to fix up bad joints before I add power :) Great tip! It works like a charm:-) Finished the core yesterday. Unfortunatly the midi I/O were not my best joints so far. It was hard to hold them still and in place and I sat in halfdark talking to my wife at the same time but I think I know how to do it better next time anyway.... solder side Started on the LCD also. Made a sketch with all cables I/O so hopefully it will work. It´s a real nest though....my lcd had a 8x2 row instead of 16x1 so all cables cross each other...good fun soldering it though :)

Did this work? I´m just about to make an opt 64psu and might copy this if it´s ok :) Getting a bit dizzy trying to follow the lines here..

Sid module finished except for the C1, C2 caps which I will use machine sockets for (so I can change filtering). I feel more and more confident soldering but I don´t think it´s that much improved. I imagine it´s a bit like plaing golf. It´s easy to hit the ball perfect once but to do it hundred times in a row is really difficult! Almost finished core module also but had troubles cutting the DIL headers (they broke...). I have spares but am afraid I will only trash them too...need a better cutter me think;-

Hmmm better watch myself so this midibox virus I got doesn´t take total control over me ;) I´ve just started to look at the other possible builds aswell....c64 midi, Fm-synth etc :P More time this way please!! Almost finished the Sid module yesterday (actually took a shower also but a very short one). Can I just solder the extra cap suggested at J2 vs-vd in the c64 optimized psu directly to the solder pads or pins or? (as mentioned I a super newbie, tried to search for an answer/pic but hasn´t found any clear enough for me to understand...)

The endcheeks are solid but I don´t know what kind (old wood from the 60´s ;)) The inset panel is because this is the existing mount for the watch so really easy to just slide in a new panel there. I might mount it on top of the alu in the end though, haven´t decided yet. My playing isn´t really that wild that I need to protect the controls this way :D The panel will probably be black (schaefer). Today my goal is to start on the Sid module while kids sleeping for an hour. Only problem is that I need to take a shower also which steals some minutes from my work! Hmm I already have a wife and kids soo....Sid module here I come!