UPDATE: My SID is finished

[Foona]

UPDATE: 24-04-2008

My MbSIDv2 is now finished!

Goto this page for some pics and sountrack.

------------

I moved this post to a new thread here in the Midibox SID forum.

okay..

I have now decided that im going to start with building

a "minimal SIDv2" with Minimum Control Surface for Multiple SIDs.

Two 6581 SID's, for stereo operation with minimal front panel.

It will have a 2x40 LCD, because big is cool :P

And i would like a maximum bankstick configuration.

This is the parts list i came up with,

and please point out if i have forgotten something.

Also if there's anything on the list i don't need..

From smashTV:

1 Core PIC18F4685 kit

2 SID kit

1 Din kit

1 Dout kit

8 24LC512

1 Rotary Encoder (with or without switch?)

Other stuff:

Buttons and knob

2 74HC595 DOUT shift registers

2 74HC165 DIN shift registers

Rest of the stuff is allready in my possession.

I have a few original C64 PSU's.

Im going to use one of these to power the unit.

Alot of questions, but it feels like it's soo close,

i can almost hear the filters whispering tender joy into my brain....

*Message has been edited*

Some of my originally posted qiz's was answered by cimo. (Thank you!!!)

[nILS]

Seems like you have everything sorted out component-wise.

Oh, and: Foona, please don't use that many line-feeds ;-)

[stryd_one]

The

SR's

are

included

in

smash

tv's

kits

enjoy.

;D

[Foona]

Included SR's?

NICE!!! Thank you SmashTV!

I placed my order yesterday.

Though i did accidently order two rotary encoders.

One with switch and one without. They weren't too expensive so i can live with it.

Though im still not shure wich one i need regarding the Harware setup iv'e chosen..

I used the PIC ID calculator that cimo hotlinked for me, before i placed my order..

And now im not shure i did the right choises. (my PIC ID 0000 0000 0000 0000)

My thought's are on the IIc MIDI addresses.

I chose "none", was i wrong in this decision?

Im also wondering a bit about the banksticks..

Im quoting from ucapps:

"you should consider to buy at least one, otherwise you are not able to store more than one sound patch. Up to 8 24LC512 can be stuffed, one of them (selected with CS#=7) is used to store ensemble "

When only using one bankstick. Will the ensembles be stored on that stick together with

the presets/patches, or do you need a full 8-bankstick configuration?

Also have im getting a bit confused in this area of saving patches/sound presets..

Is this right or wrong?

1 bankstick gives 1 bank for 128 pathes/sound presets?

[sineSurfer]

Hi Foona, you can have up to 8 banksticks, from 0 to 7, the ensembles are stored on # 7 by default but you don't need to have all the 8 bankstiks, just add as much as you want taking care of the wirings example: 0,1,2,7, this way you would end with 3 banksticks for presets, 1 for ensembles

[t_xen]

not sure about the IIc IDs, but with the PIC IDs, not to worry if you have them wrong. there is an app on ucapps.de in the downloads section that will let you change the PIC IDs called "Change_ID". ;)

[buhler]

if you're going to buy the DIN and DOUT kits then why do you need 2 74HC595 DOUT shift registers and 2 74HC165 DIN shift registers?  i'm a noob as well but i thought that these IC's were already part of the DIN and DOUT kits. [edit]i just read stryd_one's post... sorry, i spoke too soon.

[Foona]

Since im going to use a 2x40 LCD i was looking schematics

showing button connection.

I found this schematic under MIDIbox SIDv1 Control Surface section.

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_cs/2x40_enc.pdf

I am building a Mb SIDv2, so is this schematic still aplicable?

[nILS]

Nope, the correct one is located here: http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual_hw.html

[Foona]

ah this one:

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_cs/mbsid_v2_din_default.pdf

thank you :D

[Foona]

hmm..im getting a bit confused here so i'll just ask.

When reading the MbSIDv2 schematics.

Regarding the use of  2x40 LCD.

And a quote from ucapps:

"This option requires 10 select buttons instead of 5,

accordingly 16 pins will be allocated by one rotary encoder and 14 buttons"

On the schematic i can only see connections for 5 select buttons.

Where do i connect the remaining 5 select buttons?

The last 4 buttons, would these be; SHIFT, UP/CC, DOWN/EDIT and MENU?

Also i purchased both options of the encoders (with button and without) from SmashTV.

Im not shure wich one i am supposed to use here..

Then there is the boards in the schematic.

I see two complete DIN boards, im wondering about the third one.

Is there something special with it or is it just partially drawn?

[nILS]

"This option requires 10 select buttons instead of 5,

accordingly 16 pins will be allocated by one rotary encoder and 14 buttons"

On the schematic i can only see connections for 5 select buttons.

Where do i connect the remaining 5 select buttons?

To the third DINx4 module (since it's only 5 additional buttons you don't need a full DINx4, a DINx1 with only one shift register will do)

The last 4 buttons, would these be; SHIFT, UP/CC, DOWN/EDIT and MENU?

If you aren't scared of following the instructions here , you can connect the buttons wherever you want to and change the pin assignment in the software. You'll have to a part of it anyways as 5 buttons (2x20) is the default option.

Also i purchased both options of the encoders (with button and without) from SmashTV. Im not shure wich one i am supposed to use here..

Detented ones (with the "clicks") are usually used for the menu encoder, while undetented ones are used for all the other encoders. I personally like detented encoders more so I used them everywhere - it's really a matter of taste.

I see two complete DIN boards, im wondering about the third one. Is there something special with it or is it just partially drawn?

Yes and no. It's a regular DIN module, but not a fully stuffed DINx4 with 4 shift regusters as you only need one more.

[Foona]

To the third DINx4 module (since it's only 5 additional buttons you don't need a full DINx4, a DINx1 with only one shift register will do)

here , you can connect the buttons wherever you want to and change the pin assignment in the software. You'll have to a part of it anyways as 5 buttons (2x20) is the default option.

Ok, but since im only building a minimal control surface then i would only need 1 DINx4 board,

stuffed with..2 registers and remap the buttons if i understand you correctly?

Either way it doesen't sound bad at all.

I love that MB projects are completely of a modular design.

Makes it easier to "tailor" a device.

Detented ones (with the "clicks") are usually used for the menu encoder, while undetented ones are used for all the other encoders. I personally like detented encoders more so I used them everywhere - it's really a matter of taste.

I though that "with buttons" meant there is a "push button" incorporated into the encoder.

So, it actually means "detented"?

Language failed me there :)

Yes and no. It's a regular DIN module, but not a fully stuffed DINx4 with 4 shift regusters as you only need one more.

Thanx for the info.

Please correct me if iv'e stated anything "false" above.

Again your help is much appreiciated!

[nILS]

Ok, but since im only building a minimal control surface then i would only need 1 DINx4 board,

stuffed with..2 registers and remap the buttons if i understand you correctly?

A DINx4 module stuffed with 2 SRs, gives you 16 inputs, if that is <= what you need - yes :D

I though that "with buttons" meant there is a "push button" incorporated into the encoder. Language failed me there :)

So, it actually means "detented"?

My bad actually, I for some reason overread the "button" thing and assumed you were talking about un/detented encoders...  :-[ "With button" does mean "with button". You can use either type. Although using an encoder with button doesn't make any sense unless you're going to use the button ;)

[Foona]

A DINx4 module stuffed with 2 SRs, gives you 16 inputs, if that is <= what you need - yes :D

AH!

Iv'e got the hang of it now!

Oh boy....i feel silly :)

My bad actually, I for some reason overread the "button" thing and assumed you were talking about un/detented encoders...  :-[ "With button" does mean "with button". You can use either type. Although using an encoder with button doesn't make any sense unless you're going to use the button ;)

Np.

Type-o's, read-o's....

I certainly make mistakes all the time.

Nobody is perfect....though.....the Mb platform is close enough.

[glow=red,2,300]I think im in love[/glow]  :-*

[Foona]

Ok I recieved my MB stuff from Smash like 3-4 days ago.

And apparently the package had been lying at the post office for three weeks.....

And they didn't notify me!!  :o

I went down there to ask what might had happened to my package.

They where about to return it the same day I got there, so i guess i was lucky.

Eitherway, I finished all the boards the same day I picked them up.

And now im about to wire the MBsidv2 toghether.

Im looking at this schematic:

http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_8xsid_c64_psu_optimized.pdf

Im reading:

Note: the smaller 78L09 can also be used!

(3) the 7805 regulators of the core modules have been removed. The Input/Output line

of this IC has been shortened so that C5 of the core module (ca. 1000 uF is ok)

Does this mean I have to change the 2200 cap to a smaller 1000 cap?

(5) the additional cap at the last SID module reduces high frequency digital noise

Is this cap needed when building a 2 SID stereo MBsid?

Regarding the diodes (B40C800).

I don't have this type at home.

What else could i use? (1N4148's?)

..oh yeah...

why are there two power switches?

[stryd_one]

Does this mean I have to change the 2200 cap to a smaller 1000 cap?

2200 should be fine

Is this cap needed when building a 2 SID stereo MBsid?

Yeh

Regarding the diodes (B40C800).

I don't have this type at home.

What else could i use? (1N4148's?)

Yep

..oh yeah...

why are there two power switches?

I guess cause there's one two-pole switch, one for 5V and one for 9V ;) (Don't quote me on that, I didn't even look at the schem)

[snebenan]

..oh yeah...

why are there two power switches?

Because there are two powerlines in PSU  (5V DC, 9V AC) and both need to have a switch if you want to shut it down without pulling the plug.

If you have a C64 you can use that Switch, otherwise a dual switch should be easy to find.

//Peter

[Foona]

..oh yeah...

why are there two power switches?

you guys must be laughin at me...

well you should  ;D

It was a pretty stupid question hahaha

Thanx for the replies!!

[stryd_one]

;stupid question? No. Unfamiliarity with schematics? Probably :)

[snebenan]

Nah, I'm just a happy newbie aswell. You'll be happy too when your SID makes it's first beeps  :)

Good luck!

[Foona]

All of this is so confusing..

When making the SID curcuits one has to think about the right voltage and capacitors.

Now i have two boards here, one for the 6581 with a 7812 and a pair of 470 pF caps.

The other one meant for the 8580/6582 with a 7809 and a pair of 6.8nF caps.

Yet there is a 7809 regulator in the "C64 optimization" curcuit...

I know i don't fully understand the mathematics behind this curcuit.

Still it is very confusing.

Can i asume that following the "C64 optimization" curcuit to point wil be correct,

regardless of SID configuration (8580/6582)?

[baconjuice]

Yes, this stuff is a little confusing especially the power supply part, I had a hard time with it as well.

Basically what you need to do is build your sid boards with the appropriate voltage regulator for each type of sid. The 6581 needs 12volts so it gets a 7812 and the 8580/6582 needs 9volts so it gets a 7809 on its board. Then you build up the power supply exactly like the schematic. The power supply will provide two outputs, a 5volt and a 14volt. The 14volt line will go to the sid boards and the regulators on the boards will provide the correct power for the sids. the 5volt line and ground will go to your core module at J2. because you are feeding it the 5volts it requires, you will not need the 7805 regulator on that board. I hope that helps and doesn't add to the confusion.

[nILS]

Then you build up the power supply exactly like the schematic.

The "exactly like in the schematic" thing is a really good idea. Don't try to optimize anything any further unless you really know what you're doing ;D

[Foona]

the 5volt line and ground will go to your core module at J2. because you are feeding it the 5volts it requires, you will not need the 7805 regulator on that board. I hope that helps and doesn't add to the confusion.

Cr*p!

Now i gotta desolder the regulator on the core...

If i would have looked more carefully...well whats done is done,

and now i have to undo it.

Thank you for the explanation mr.baconjuice.

I can now say i almost fully understand how this schematic works.

nILS Podewski> in this stage i do not have the technological knowledge to even try adjusting/enhancing this curcuit.

At the most, do have the knowledge of how to seriously damage, destroy and incinerate this curcuit.  8) (ohyeah!)

And since that is not a option, i'll take the advice from both of you and build the cucuit accordingly to schematics.