Help with buttons? (definitely not)

[cyutaeha]

I've searched everywhere for an explanation on how exactly buttons work. I ordered my buttons from Mike's store and they have 4 pins on the bottom but the schematic for the DIN show only places for two. It's my understanding that these are momentary push buttons and that, I think, the four pin buttons are tactile pushbuttons. I honestly don't know the difference but I know that with four pins to choose where to solder the wires into, when the schematic only shows two, I'm pretty sure I have the wrong buttons for the Control A setup. Or at least don't know what I'm doing.

If I've offended anyone with my electronic ignorance, I apologize.  :-[

If anyone could please tell me what's the deal with the buttons it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

-Karac-

[cimo]

hey

i have to admit (and you too) that you miss some basic knowledge dude, nevermind, this is the right place where to make yourself a grown up electronic geek.Anyway you can t be here asking how to peel a cable, how to connect a LED what s the difference between AC and DC etc etc.I ve found the wikipedia a general good resource for infos and the ucapps wiki has also some basic infos.

About your question: the pins are paired, i mean there are 2 pairs and each pair is electrically connected.Now an easy way out is to use to opposite pins and there you go, but if you have a multimeter you can have some fun finding out what is what (you can build a test probe with a battery a resistance and a LED)

I would also suggest to try a technique that i ve developed during my first years of life: you need a small tool like a screw driver or such.Then just open the damn thing and have a look inside, you won t probably be able to put it together again, but hey it s fun and you ll learn so much.Don t do it with the PIC, it s not worth it.

Another trick is the so called "try and try" procedure which consists in trying all the possibilities, in your case, you have 4 pins that makes 6 possibilities, that ll take less than what it s taking me to write this answer.

good luck

simone

[nILS]

the pins are paired, [...] 2 pairs [...] each pair is electrically multimeter [...] find [...] out what is what

Exactly.

OT:

I would also suggest to try a technique that i ve developed during my first years of life: you need a small tool like a screw driver or such.Then just open the damn thing and have a look inside, you won t probably be able to put it together again, but hey it s fun and you ll learn so much.Don t do it with the PIC, it s not worth it.

That made my day :-) My parents never really liked the way I investigated stuff as a kid for some reason though. "No, mom, it's cool, I just wanna see what's in dad's tube amp!"

...that ll take less than what it s taking me to write this answer.

Amen.

[cyutaeha]

I've tried every which way before I posted and I suspected either I may not by doing something right or have the wrong buttons (even though that's retarded)

It's my damn DIN. I honestly don't know. I've been at the thing for hours trying everything:

Retracing the connections. Everything is right.

Checking the forums. Read to page 20 before I quit that.

TK has DIN related troubleshooting guides in the portal section so I thought maybe it was the hex file I loaded into the PIC. I originally had the TK setup version and the .asm file had different setups in it for the DIN pins so I changed to the 8580 hex and very carefully read the DIN lines in that. Everything matches but I get nothing.

Anyone who had a similiar problem in the forums either didn't give a solution or the solution didn't work in my case. I have 3 DIN modules and tried them all and still nothing so I know if it's some hardware thing it's unlikely to be in all 3 of them. This is seriously driving me up the walls.

I've even tried talking nicely to the DINs and they still won't cooperate. The sacrifice made to the circuit gods didn't work either.

This is much more than a button issue here I'm sure.

Another trick is the so called "try and try" procedure which consists in trying all the possibilities, in your case, you have 4 pins that makes 6 possibilities, that ll take less than what it s taking me to write this answer.

I've been at this for five hours.  :'(

[nILS]

Did you try the http://ucapps.de/mios/ain64_din128_dout128_v2_0.zip application? It'll let you press buttons and tell you the shift register and PIN number. That's an easy way to test your DINs + wiring.

[cyutaeha]

I get no response from that application either. What else could it possibly be? Again I've checked the connections about 10 times. This just doesn't make sense.

[nILS]

0) Do you have an LCD on the core?

1) Are the ICs in the DIN boards put in the right way around

2) Is the cabling correct

3) Is the DIN board connected to the correct header on the CORE

4) Are the resistors on the DIN boards the correct value

5) Did you connect each button so that one pair of the pins of the button goes to GND and the other goes to one of the data pins of the SRs?

6) Have you tried "emulating" buttons with a piece of wire?

[cyutaeha]

0)Yes

1)Yes

2)Yes

3)Yes

4)I hope so, I used the ones that come in the kit from Smash.

5)Yes, I broke apart one of my buttons so I could be sure where the pairs are.

6)Yes, I actually shocked myself in the process.

Of course I'm using this PCB http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/mbhp_dinR5.html

The only other thing that might be it is, and this is a noobie noob thought, the kit came with the bridge resistor things and they are not all facing the same direction. This is silly because I'm 90% sure that the heading doesn't matter.

[nILS]

Ummm... The resistor networks (= bridge resistor things) *need* to be put in the right way around. One pin on one side should be marked, this one has to go on the side of the 5V rail (the side marked with ^ on smash's boards). If you put them in the wrong way, only one of the 4 pins could *possibly* work. Check that first.

[cyutaeha]

Yeah there's a freaking arrow pointing right were the marked spot needs to be. Geez. ::)

Thank you...so much.

TK should put in a gold star system or something in the forums. You totally would've got like 50 for pointing out the bull crappingly obvious to my retarded ass.

This is what happens when you don't go to university. ;)

[stryd_one]

TK should put in a gold star system or something in the forums.

omg not karma again.

[cimo]

nice to see you got it fixed, i would definitely grab the chance and investigate to get the idea of what a resistors network is and what s the difference between that and a bunch of resistors

tip2= buy a cheap multimeter, it s worth those 10$ (and you can test the resistance of your body and do other weird things etc)

[cyutaeha]

Ok so I fixed the heading on the resistor networks and still absolutely nothing. This is freaking BS. Everything is setup absolutely perfect. I've got 2 SIDS running from a core so there's nothing wrong with that. I refuse to believe that all 3 of my god damn DINS are duds.

Geez WTF?!

[cyutaeha]

I busted out the voltmeter and there's definitely some current going through the DIN, but this brings me back to my original assumption: maybe I just don't know what the hell to do with a button.

My camera's not working so here's a pretty ms paint pic.

Right? Wrong? Retard?

I've tried all other possible combinations in case my logic, shown in the pic, was wrong.

I've tried everything else. I'm at the brink of nothing can be done about it.

[SLP]

right

[bugfight]

have you done the srio test?

if that passes, check v at the din pin for each button both when pressed and unpressed

(should be Vdd when unpressed and 0 when pressed)

[cyutaeha]

Yeah that checks out fine too. I'm reading 5V when unpressed and 0V when pressed on said button DIN pin.

I'm thinking it makes perfect sense if the 74HC165's are malfunctioning, but it's not likely. I mean all 12 of them?! There's definitely 5V going through all pins except 2, 7, 8, and 15. I've got 0V on 7, 8, and 15 and like 0.15V on 2.

I'm thinking it's gotta be some issue with the core or the software because everything else checks out.

[stryd_one]

Yeah that checks out fine too. I'm reading 5V when unpressed and 0V when pressed on said button DIN pin.

I'm thinking it makes perfect sense if the 74HC165's are malfunctioning, but it's not likely. I mean all 12 of them?! There's definitely 5V going through all pins except 2, 7, 8, and 15. I've got 0V on 7, 8, and 15 and like 0.15V on 2.

I'm thinking it's gotta be some issue with the core or the software because everything else checks out.

All 12 SR's dying simultaneously is not so unlikely if you've made a wiring error and possibly blown them up (which you have).... however if you're testing 12 of them at this point, then you're not testing correctly.

Start with your core, and only one DINx4 module. First, run the SRIO test. If that passes, then run ain64_din128_dout128. If that passes, then add another DINx4 module and repeat. This is about testing one thing at a time, making one change at a time before testing each time. If you do your troubleshooting like that, then when you get a failure, it points directly at the source of the problem - the last thing you changed.

I'm not sure about you, but I don't memorise pinouts for all the IC's I use... what are those pin numbers you mentioned? ;)

[cyutaeha]

OK I give up. There's nothing else I can do but buy some new DIN chips. I must have done something (what it is I have absolutely no clue) to fry the damn things.

All 12 SR's dying simultaneously is not so unlikely if you've made a wiring error and possibly blown them up (which you have).... however if you're testing 12 of them at this point, then you're not testing correctly.

No. Sorry I should have specified more clearly.  I tested them one DIN module at a time and they all responded the exact same way, with some current flowing through but the DIN pins would not react to being grounded. So it has to be the HC Chips. Apparently they're super sensitive or something.

I'm not sure about you, but I don't memorise pinouts for all the IC's I use... what are those pin numbers you mentioned?

I listed the pin numbers for the HC's. Just in case some voltage levels were wrong and someone would happen to notice.

Well, case closed on this one, I guess. Just gonna have to order some more and try again later. In the meantime gotta figure out how to control the SID's sound parameters and MIDI assignments through MIOS. Particularly how to get the same kind of functions a control surface would have through software of some sort. (Hopefully it's not to big of a pain.) Time to read some more WIKIs and forum.

Thank you to everyone who been helping me out. I really do appreciate the support. I gotta say, this shit aint easy for a first time project. :P

[stryd_one]

I listed the pin numbers for the HC's. Just in case some voltage levels were wrong and someone would happen to notice

Yes, I can see that you listed pin numbers, that's the problem. If you list pin NAMES then they actually mean something.

[Echopraxia]

How are you connecting the din to the core? Are you useing an 10 pin IDC connector? I originally did this but found that I I too was having problems with trying to get both a din and dout working off of one IDC connector. It was only untill I decided to individually attach some tyco cst-100 crimp pins to each wire going from the core to the din to get it to work right. I found that only one header row on j1 of the din works which I believe is the inner row closer to the resistors. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.  Then slap some heat shrink on each crimp pin aswell to make sure that the crimp pins don't touch each other. Anyways thats how I got mine to work.

I am trying to figure out what you said about "I'm reading 5V when unpressed and 0V when pressed on said button DIN pin." Isn't it working then? Its late  need sleep. Goodluck

[cyutaeha]

Yes, I can see that you listed pin numbers, that's the problem. If you list pin NAMES then they actually mean something.

:-[ sorry

I am trying to figure out what you said about "I'm reading 5V when unpressed and 0V when pressed on said button DIN pin." Isn't it working then?

My thoughts exactly. But, no it doesn't.

I found that only one header row on j1 of the din works which I believe is the inner row closer to the resistors.

Well if that's true then I'm gonna have to try that as soon as I get my malfunctioning PIC to stop being such a jerk.  >:(

[bugfight]

My thoughts exactly. But, no it doesn't.

no, this only tells you the buttons and their connecting tissue are working, next you move downstream...

as stryd suggested, you should do the srio test several ways, core only, measurements at core with 1 dinx4 attached,

measurements at dinx4 j1, measurements at the din chips themselves  somewhere along there i suspect you will find that it fails.

post detailed results...

Well if that's true then I'm gonna have to try that as soon as I get my malfunctioning PIC to stop being such a jerk.  >:(

this only matters if you are connecting both dout and din on the same chain.

ok, you obviously need a working core first...

[cyutaeha]

OK I got my PIC running again. A damn IC socket pin pierced one of the wire bridges at the bottom of the core. Unstabbing that wire fixed everything.

8)<---not

post detailed results...

Ok here's what I got.

core only

:  RC: 5.08    SC: 5.08

measurements at core with 1 dinx4 attached

:  RC: 5.08    SC: 5.08

measurements at dinx4 j1

:  RC: 5.08    SC: 5.08

measurements at the din chips themselves

:  RC=LD=pin#1: 5.08    SC=CLK=pin#2: 5.08

All SCs in each separate test shows 0.01 when SC is not selected and

all RCs in each separate test shows 0 when RC is not selected.

[cyutaeha]

So showing all this I'm guessing I just need to buy new 74HC165s? Does anyone know if they are really so fragile that they could've fried from static shock or something without me realizing?