nebula Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Your panel is just insanely gorgeous. I love it.The Novation knobs in the first pic look really cool ... it would be really tempting to figure out a way to stick some frosted acrylic underneath the panel, peaking out from behind the knobs. You could light it up, creating a little illuminated halo around each knob. (But that would be a lot of very tedious work).I've got the "Waldorf" knobs on my MB-6582, in grey. I find the grey ones a little "tamer" than the white / red ones you see in a lot of pics. The nicest ones IMHO are on Wilba's prototype, and are sadly no longer available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted December 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Hi Nebula,the Liquid Mix knobs are nice, aren't they?a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted December 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I'm having big problems with my soldering at the moment. I must be one of the slowest MIDIBox solderers out there, but I've also been having issues actually making good joints with the board. For some reason, some of the pads on the base PCB seem to repel the solder. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, since I'm soldering all the pads in the same way, but for some reason on some pads, particularly for the legs of the 8-pin DIL sockets, one leg of one of the large PSU capacitors, and a few others, the solder seems to stick to the leg of the component, but just won't adhere to the pad on the board. Anyone any advice? I should probably post this in another thread or something...Very frustrating.a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zgba Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Use some sort of resin or flux or something if you're having difficulties. Maybe the soldering pads are oxidised. I make all the PCBs on my own, so I use lots of eeh... this powder you're using in kitchen to wash frying pans and stuff:) How hot is your soldering iron (uhh... don't touch it, rather read it on display;) )? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baconjuice Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 hello Toneburst,Not sure if this is what you are experiencing but I've had this problem before on pads that are attached to a ground plane. the ground plane acts like a heat sink so the pad doesn't get hot enough for the solder to stick to it. One thing that has worked for me is to turn up the heat and put a little more of the iron on the pad rather than the component. Try not to leave the iron on there too long as high heat can damage some components. As far as being slow with the soldering goes, I wouldn't worry about it. Quality is better than speed when it comes to this.baconJuice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted December 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Wow, quick replies, thanks guys!Baconjuice's reply rings a bell, actually. It could easily be that all the pads I've been having problems with are connected to ground. This makes sense, in fact, as I've just been testing the connections between ground and the DIL sockets, and several have failed the test, whereas all the the pins that should have 5V running to them have tested fine.zgba, I'm running the iron at about 330C, though I'm not completely sure how accurate the temperature control on my solder-station is (it was a really cheap one).I'll work through your tips, and see what works best for me.Thank again guys!a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted December 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I made some very stupid mistakes in the PSU section.I decided, in a moment of madness, to solder up the two large radial capacitors, before installing the two smaller capacitors. Which, obviously made it much harder to install C2 and C4 (I went for PSU Option A, as I'm using Wilba's 6582A SIDs).Mistake 1Then, (and this was about midnight last night), I mistakenly installed C2 in the C4 socket.Mistake 2I realised I'd screwed up, but only after I'd soldered and trimmed both legs. I managed to desolder it without breaking either leg off, but it's quite possible I've melted it by applying to much heat during the desoldering.After desoldering, one of the C4 holes was still full of solder, and no matter how much I tried sucking it out with the desoldering pump, I couldn't clear it.I eventually decided to solder the correct capacitor to the underside of the board. This way, I was able to use the iron to heat the leg, and melt the solder blocking the hole with the leg, until I could push the component through. It looks OK, but again, I've probably trashed the cap with too much heat.We'll see.a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimchim Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 but for some reason on some pads, particularly for the legs of the 8-pin DIL sockets, one leg of one of the large PSU capacitors, and a few others, the solder seems to stick to the leg of the component,Toneburst,I had noticed the same issue, essentially there is not enough heat going to the pad with some of those bigger components. I was able to solder them with only a 15w iron but the key is to make sure to position your tip so that it is making good contact with the pad as well as the component leg. Make sure the tip is clean, excess solder blobs will worsen the problem.If all else fails you may need a new/"pointier" tip......I really had to work with some of those smaller pads playing with the angle of approach to ensure I was making good contact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zgba Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Toneburst,I'm using similar iron settings, temperature about 290-320C. It depends of the quality of my PCB. But as I said, my PCBs are brand new and shiny, so I don't experience such a problems. Sometimes, especially when I try to solder an IC without a socket and I have to be rather quick, I have problems, cause the solder won't stick to the pad. I use then some resin, and if it doesn't help (sometimes when soldering big electrolytuic caps) I remove the solder with my solder pump, clean the leg with an exacto knife, apply some flux and then try to solder. Too much heat isn't a good solution, cause you can burn all the resin, what makes further soldering impossible.Sometimes if you can't clear a hole using solder sucker, you can try using a big needle, the one you're using to inject things;) Heat the solder, put the needle and try to move it carefully. With some practice you can even desolder an IC without solder sucker.Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Working my way through the rest of the soldering on the Main Board, I've just realised I soldered the wrong caps into the C4/C24 SID sockets, soooo.. I need to desolder all 8, and solder the correct ones into SID C3/C23.I'm thinking that it might be easier to snip the incorrectly-placed ones in half and desolder each leg separately. Which means I need to buy replacements.Sorry for the newbie question, but would these ones fit the bill?http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ceramic-Disc-Capacitors-Y5V-50VDC-1nF-Pack-of-50-IN-UK_W0QQitemZ260338475589QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item260338475589&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318or is it better to try and remove them intact, and resolder in the correct place?a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zgba Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 1. Every 1nF cap will do the job.2. If you're not sure you can desolder this cap without damaging the PCB, do it like you described. It's always easier to replace a $0,01 part than a PCB... This cap is neither made of gold nor an 1% expensive one, so do it if you think you should:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Hi zgba,I'll buy those ones then, and break the old ones to get them out.Cheers for the info!a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 I always avoid desoldering whenever possible. If you absolutely must desolder a part from a PCB and don't need to keep it, cut it on the component side so you can desolder one lead at a time. Sometimes desoldering might involve adding more solder to heat up the entire joint so you can pull the lead out from the component side, and then using a solder sucker (desoldering pump) to suck out the solder from the joint. You just do not want to rip the pads off the PCB, as fixing this is really annoying.Of course if you're desoldering something you want to keep from a PCB you'll never use again, then you can be brutal and repeatedly heat joints and wiggle a part out of the holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Hi wilba!Thanks for the tips. You're right- I really don't want to damage the PCB. I've ordered a load of replacement caps, anyway, so I'll just do as you suggest, and cut the misplaced ones in half and try and desolder the remains a leg at a time. I've got a desoldering pump, and braid, too (though I'm not sure how to use the braid, really).Incidentally, any more tips re soldering to pads connected to the ground plane on the MB-6582 main board? I'm still having trouble getting the pads hot enough for the solder to stick, without melting the component.a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zgba Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Desoldering wick is good when you have to desolder a smd part or a standard, thru-hole element soldered to a small pad. If you have difficulties using desoldering wick, add some resin or liquid flux or anything you use to solder, and the wick will do the trick (yo, nigga!). I desoldered YAC512 and YMF262 using only braid, iron, resin and a needle. As Wilba said - sometimes it's better to add some amount of solder and then try to suck/wick it. About soldering to ground plane - use some sort of flux, maybe some soldering paste, then try to reheat and resolder whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Well, I've managed to desolder 5 of the 8 caps, just using the iron and solder-sucker, and a pair of needle-nosed pliers.I've been cutting the caps in half, then using combinations of sucking solder from both sides of the board, adding more solder, and gently waggling the legs with a pair of needle-nosed pliers.It's been taking me 10 minutes per cap though, though, so progress is frustratingly slowwww, but I have so far managed to avoid damaging the pads too much, I think (fingers crossed).I've just invested in some liquid flux and an applicator for it, so they will hopefully help with those pads connected to the ground plane, when they eventually arrive (another eBay order).3 more caps to go!Cheers again for the encouragement and tips, guys!a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimchim Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I've found a "de-soldering" copper braid to be helpful for stubborn little blobs that don't want to let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Well, I've managed to complete the desoldering of the 8 misplaced capacitors now. I eventually found it easiest to add molten solder to the base of the legs from the top side, once I'd snipped the cap in half, then pull the legs out with the pliers. The only problem then is clearing the excess solder from the holes, which I eventually did by holding the board on its side, heating the hole from one side, and sucking the solder out the other.I've done all the other SID section caps now, and basically have only the SID transistors, and the caps next to each SID chip socket (which I'll mount in machined-pin sockets I think) to do, and the baseboard is finished. Then the troubleshooting will begin, I suspect! There are still quite a lot of really horrible-looking solder joints on the back of the board, and I'd be very surprised if at least some of these don't cause problems. I have some liquid flux on the way though, so hopefully I should be able to resolder in a more satisfactory manner, where necessary.Oh, and I still have to do the resistors for the CS LEDs, but I'll leave them until after I've wired up the LCD and tested the rest of the board.Incidentally, what kind of potentiometers and caps should I get, to implement adjustable feedback, as Wilba has?a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted January 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Mainboard nearly finished, at last!It looks pretty horrible on the back of the board though, so fingers crossed it actually works...Gotta solder-up the LCD cable next. I seem to have mislaid a transistor, too somewhere along the way, so I may have to order a replacement, which is a drag.a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Well, I finally finished all the soldering on the mainboard, with the exception of the resistors for the Control Surface LEDs, which I will leave until I start work on the CS, and one of the transistors on the SID section, which I seem to have mislaid somehow. I used machined-pin sockets for the SID filter caps, just in case I fancy experimenting with different types later on.Last night, I populated all the IC sockets except for the SIDs (still waiting for my order from Wilba), and the Core chips. I added the first core PIC, connected an old LCD I had left over from my last bout of MIDIBoxing, hooked up my trusts C64 PSU brick, held my breath, and.. turned it on.Initially, I got nothing, and my heart sank. Then, it occurred to me that I probably needed to adjust the LCD contrast pot, so I dug out my a screwdriver, tweaked adjusted the pot slightly, and, with immeasurable relief, saw:I then dropped in the 2nd Core chip, connected the LCD again, and:I'm so glad everything seems to be working, so far!Here's a photo of the whole board, as it stands at the moment. You may just be able to see the missing transistor on SID #4. I also noticed after taking the photo, that one of the capacitors for SID #1 is also missing. I've now soldered that in. I tried to keep everything as neat as possible, on the top of the board, at least, but it is very hard to keep all the components straight, I find. All the ID sockets are slightly crooked, the capacitors and transistors are at slightly different angles, which bugs me a little, I must admit. Not enough for me to want to resolder everything, though.My next move will be to drop in one of the SIDs I have left over from my previous attempt, and see if I can get the SID application uploaded, and get some sound out of it! The SIDs are a pair of 8580s I salvaged from eBay-bought C64s, so they should have the same power and filter-cap requirements as the 6582 revision chips that will eventually be installed. When the chips from Wilba arrive, I will compare the sound from the two different types, and may leave a pair of 8580s in there, just to have the option (though I guess this might have a detrimental effect on Super-Poly mode operation- thoughts on that, anyone?).Unfortunately, I have other stuff to do at the moment, and probably won't get to work on the MB-6582 again until Tuesday evening, but I'm looking forward to moving on to the next stage!a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Now I remember what had me scratching my head, and eventually pulling out my hair, for weeks last time around, when I was making my first Core + SID modules..... and I've hit the same issue again.No MIDI. I'm not getting any MIDI output from the mainboard when I turn it on, though I still see 'READY' on the display.Also, I haven't been able to upload the test-tone application using MIOS Studio, either by using 'Smart' or 'Manual' modes. I guess this means both MIDI In and Out are not working. I'm getting an output from the MIDI interface (an M-Audio MIDISport 2x2) when I try to output the test-tone application, but there are no flashing LEDs on the interface indicating anything coming out of the mainboard.I've been through the tests onhttp://www.ucapps.de/howto_debug_midi.htmlthough I'm a bit confused about this onehttp://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_core_5.jpgMaybe I should be installing some more jumpers?I've also swapped-out the optocoupler for one from the Core module I eventually got working before.Anything else I should try?a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 from http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/wilba_mb_6582What is the function of J11 (directly below U1_Core1)?Using a jumper, this allows you to connect the PIC's serial output to the MIDI port. You would only need to use this once for the first upload of MIOS and the MB-SID V2 firmware, thereafter connect the master PIC (1) to the MIDI out and after uploading new MB-SID V2 firmware, the master PIC can clone itself to the other PICs across the CAN bus.from http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_6582_base_pcb_construction_guideJ11 at the bottom of the board is used to switch which PIC's serial output is connected to the MIDI Out. You use this during uploading of MIOS and the MB-SID V2 firmware to each PIC. Place a jumper vertically across two pins to switch between the PICs 1,2,3,4 (1 is the master, on the right). Leave the jumper in position 1 when you've finished. All PICs receive the same MIDI In, which is OK during uploads and the MB-SID V2 firmware also requires them all connected to MIDI In. I've labeled this 1,2,3,4 and the Cores/PICs are identified 1,2,3,4 but the device IDs you burn into the PIC are 0,1,2,3.For what it's worth, CSG 8580R5 are identical to the CSG 6582A I sell. It's possible MOS 8580R5 might sound slightly different to the CSG 6582A I sell, but highly unlikely. I say this because some SID fans think they can hear a difference between CSG 8580R5 and the older MOS 8580R5. I am skeptical though. Some people think they can hear a difference when using gold-plated phono jacks. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 J11 at the bottom of the board is used to switch which PIC's serial output is connected to the MIDI Out. You use this during uploading of MIOS and the MB-SID V2 firmware to each PIC. Place a jumper vertically across two pins to switch between the PICs 1,2,3,4 (1 is the master, on the right). Leave the jumper in position 1 when you've finished. All PICs receive the same MIDI In, which is OK during uploads and the MB-SID V2 firmware also requires them all connected to MIDI In. I've labeled this 1,2,3,4 and the Cores/PICs are identified 1,2,3,4 but the device IDs you burn into the PIC are 0,1,2,3.Ah, so it WAS a jumper... Thanks very much for that Wilba. Apologies for not reading the docs properly. I will try that as soon as I get a chance.For what it's worth, CSG 8580R5 are identical to the CSG 6582A I sell. It's possible MOS 8580R5 might sound slightly different to the CSG 6582A I sell, but highly unlikely. I say this because some SID fans think they can hear a difference between CSG 8580R5 and the older MOS 8580R5. I am skeptical though. Some people think they can hear a difference when using gold-plated phono jacks. :PI think if you listen to something for long enough, you can convince yourself you're hearing all sorts of things!Thanks again for the info!Cheers,a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Some people think they can hear a difference when using gold-plated phono jacks. That's total BS. Only my solid silver power cable with titanium shielding will do that. Buy yours now for the low low price of 900 Euro per inch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneburst Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 That's total BS. Only my solid silver power cable with titanium shielding will do that. Buy yours now for the low low price of 900 Euro per inch.Ha!If we were all audiophiles, we wouldn't be here ;)a|x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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