midibox ultra - advanced ableton live control surface

[ultra]

after learning a bit about programming for MIOS and liveapi, i decided to ditch my original live control surface idea.  it used no feedback of any kind from live.  this new one is completely integrated into live as a custom control surface like mackie, but better than mackie in the sense that more information is exchanged, and virtually anything is mapped automatically without even thinking about it.

the drawing is of the bankable 4-track section of the controller.  i left off the master section because i'm still working out the details on what functions i'd want to be immediately accessible.  part of the reason for this thread is to get feedback from live users.  i want to know if i need to make more functions immediately accessible.

the six buttons at the bottom-left of the image are dedicated clip/track controls.  you can fire/stop a clip, arm for recording, and solo/mute a track.  no matter what state the controller is in, these functions will always work.  to the right is the volume pot.  this is a softpot that uses a 20 segment led just like stribe.  stryd_one had a great idea for using this for scaling.  if your volume is at 80% and you touch the bottom of the pot to slide upward, the entire softpot controls only the remaining 20% of volume, giving you higher resolution.  the sixth button in the group will be a modifier button allowing you to get even higher resolution.  this solves issues of having to use motorfaders, saves space, and offers flexibility with volume control.  it might take getting used to, but i think it would work.  perhaps the button would instead put it into an "absolute" mode.  or vice versa.  this set 6 buttons and the volume fader are automapped to live.  you will never have to enter midi map mode to gain control.

the 9 controls above that are six endless rotary encoders (detents removed) and 3 mec illuminated switches.  these are "soft" controls that change based on what is going on in the controller.  they also work in layers so they become more functional.  this is where things start to get interesting.

with liveapi, you have the ability to monitor what's going on in a major way.  if i drop a plugin onto a track in live, the midibox is notified automatically.  from there all available parameters of that control are scanned and the name and type of each parameter is gathered and sent to the midibox.  even 3rd party plugins work.

when the data is dumped into the midibox, one of two things happens:

if you've used the control before and set up your preferences, it becomes a layer on the track you dropped it into.  all control names show up on the lcd (in alignment with the proper controls) for that track and the knobs/buttons are automatically mapped to that control.  you will not have to enter midi map mode, it's all automatic.  when you add more plugins, they become more layers.  you can select the layers and gain direct access to whatever kind of instrument or effect you have on that track.  if an instrument needs more than the 6 available knobs and 3 switches, it can get more than one layer.  all parameters are sent in a relative manner so you don't have to worry about parameter jumping or storing the values.  however, values of those knobs will be put on the glcd.

if you haven't used the control before, you have to do a simple setup.  the entire control surface temporarily becomes an editor for you to set up your preferences for that plugin.  you'll get all available parameter names mapped across the entire board.  from there, if things aren't quite right (maybe it's toggling a button that should be momentary), you can edit the control and change it as you see fit.  for instance, you could store scaling preferences per control or even edit the name that shows up on the lcd.  there will also be the ability to just remove a control so you don't have to deal with it building up layers you don't need, as well as the ability to choose what order they show up (meaning certain controls can be on the top layer, the next, etc).

once this setup has been done, you won't have to do it again.  the next time you add that plugin for any track, these preferences are recalled and it just plugs into your track.

i also want to include the ability to add your own custom setups from scratch.  i see problems with certain plugins like reaktor that may not map out the parameter names properly.  so instead, you will manually assign the cc's, control type, parameter names, etc and map them the old fashioned way.  of course once this is done, you can recall it later (perhaps automatically) and only do new mappings if necessary.  none of the automapping features will use cc's, so there will be plenty available for programs that don't want to play nice.

as far as track layers go, there are two more things i want to add.  if possible, i want to add a clip editor (works just like it was an additional layer).  the top layer will be your "favorites".  six knobs and three buttons from any instrument on the track can be selected to be on the top layer, no matter what instrument they control.

edit: i haven't yet looked into controlling racks, so maybe that's a good alternative.

the selection of what plugin you want to control for the moment will be done via a touchscreen glcd.  stryd_one found a good deal and it should cost under $200 for five of these (four tracks + master).  the master section will be very much like the track sections, with certain buttons being dedicated and others changing purpose. 

the touchscreen could also be used to fire scenes in live.  i am able to access track names (you'll see the track # and track title on each glcd of the tracks), clip names, and probably scene names as well (haven't tested that part yet), so there's a number of options available to get data into the midibox for whatever purpose you want.

so basically i'm looking for feedback on the design.  forget the actual layout and how it looks.  am i overlooking anything that needs immediate control?

ultra

[Sasha]

:o This will be great. Have you already tested those touch sensitive GLCDs? Do you expect, you can use this controller completely without looking at PC. If not, having all those fancy displays would make not much sense.

Are you planing to make clip status feedback like Monodeck II... LEDs? Possibility to show focus clip name and time left would make it very useful. Monodeck is most useful Live controller I know, but I think you can make it way better.

[Just Phil]

hey ultra as far as racks go maybe you should dedicate an encoder to "layers" which controls an instrument or effect rack to select which "layer is focused" that way your xy for each channel can be the touch screen and it will allow you to control 2 parameters x128 layers (up to) and at the same time give you 128 layers of what the general purpose encoders do...all selectable with one knob of course 128 is serious over kill but if you put an led ring around that one knob and have 16 layers you could actually crossfade between them.. and this is easy to do with just some midi mapping in LIVE... without any additional programming.

or you can even use midi a 9th channel with a midi clip and use the midi ctrl in the clip envelope to send cc # and values through midi yoke then back to live to select which layer/rack is chosen...

sorry if i dont make sense i'm a little stoned so writing this is difficult... i'll check back when i'm sober.

[Just Phil]

oh and here is the SOS article on racks

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan07/articles/livetech_0107.htm

[ultra]

Have you already tested those touch sensitive GLCDs?

no i haven't.  you have to order $100 minimum so i'm just going to dive in and order all 5 of them.  i also don't know if i can actually connect 5 of these to a midibox (i've heard you can).  stryd_one did find a driver for them so i'm ok with that.

Do you expect, you can use this controller completely without looking at PC. If not, having all those fancy displays would make not much sense.

Are you planing to make clip status feedback like Monodeck II... LEDs? Possibility to show focus clip name and time left would make it very useful. Monodeck is most useful Live controller I know, but I think you can make it way better.

the fancy displays are for the purpose of not loading up the interface with buttons that access information on the tracks.  and i wouldn't use them for anything critical.  this is a studio controller and i don't see a point of having so much information on it that you don't have to look at the screen.  the simplicity of not having to map controls is the biggest reason i want to do this.  also to get complete control over live.  for live use, check what i've said at my liveapi progress thread:

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,12585.0.html

a controller that's powerful enough to play live without looking at the screen is certainly possible.  i've already managed to access clip names, and yes clip state can also be monitored and you can show the info on screen, use an led, or whatever you want.

hey ultra as far as racks go maybe you should dedicate an encoder to "layers" which controls an instrument or effect rack to select which "layer is focused" that way your xy for each channel can be the touch screen and it will allow you to control 2 parameters x128 layers (up to) and at the same time give you 128 layers of what the general purpose encoders do...all selectable with one knob of course 128 is serious over kill but if you put an led ring around that one knob and have 16 layers you could actually crossfade between them.. and this is easy to do with just some midi mapping in LIVE... without any additional programming.

i have definitely thought about the possibility of having the touchscreen enter an x/y mode, allowing you to drag your finger to control two parameters.  for me, this is a low priority but it could be added.  i've also been considering the method of accessing the different devices on the track.  an encoder to cycle through them is an option.  otherwise, the touchscreen can be used as well.  i'll look into racks a little bit more, hopefully it'll help me better understand what you're talking about :).

or you can even use midi a 9th channel with a midi clip and use the midi ctrl in the clip envelope to send cc # and values through midi yoke then back to live to select which layer/rack is chosen...

using anything like midi yoke, bome's, etc, is not an option.  i do not want any kind of intermediary program to be necessary.  the communication will all be direct with live.

[ultra]

well, here's what i've come up with.  it'll probably have to run on mios32 because of all the lcds, and i have absolutely no idea how it'll work out.

four channels, each identical.  they can easily be assigned to any channel in ableton live.  so instead of banking channels, you could show 1, 3, 5, and 8.  top six black circles are general use encoders.  top 3 circles with white in the middle are mec illuminated switches, also for general purpose.  their description shows up on the touchscreen glcd at the top of the channel.

shift button can change the usage of any button.  for example, if i hold shift and press view on the master section at the right, it'll change clip/device view for the channel.  otherwise, view changes session/arrangement view.

select button tells live to show that track.  same as clicking on its title.

the rest of the buttons should be obvious.  the general purpose buttons can edit clips, instrumetns, or anything else.

in the master section, holding shift turns volume into cue volume (dont' know why i'd even need that), and pan into crossfade.  general purpose buttons/encoders will be used to control things like bpm.  i basically want to have labeled controls for the things i will always need on a channel, because having touchscreens, six encoders, and three general purpose buttons per channel gives me plenty of other control.  i don't mind the menus because this isn't exactly a performance controller.  that's coming in the future.  this is to be able to edit a live set as much as you wish.

[Phattline]

ok....

I have planed something simular...but i waste it...

until i havent planed Ledrings (to show the position of the encoder) or LCDs...

I noticed that you dont have anything from this ???.... you could put some  2x 2x40 LCDs over the encoders....and with additional buttons on the left side from the encoders and buttons---- when you press one, you will see the Controller name and Values in the display for this encoder or button Row...well know from the Novation Zero SL!...look @ this picture:

now focus the left end, ther is a LED and a 5 buttons --- if you press this you see what this button makes in the LCD!...of course you see what was does also when you turn a encoder or push a button- then you will see what this raw (from the left to the rigtht side) do! But to see what is going on, without switching it is nesserery.....

I know that is not naturaly supportet, but such functions are possible...but then again... i cant program it-  ;)

[ultra]

the box at the top of each track is a glcd that can show all the information at once.  also, i've figured out how to retrieve parameter names from live.

check this thread for my developments on liveapi:

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,12585.0.html

[Phattline]

hell yeah, ok....your device is cool!  :o