please help before i give up :(

[DJ Trago]

hello again fellow midiboxers, i realy do feel like the most fail ridden noob there is! iv been building my SID for 6 months now and its begining to destroy my soul. basicaly everything i have atempted has failed and iv had to back track and now im basicaly at square one :(

so i tryed with the OPSU and failed because it wouldnt suply enough voltage, so i gave up on stereo and then built the most basic SID i could hopeing that maybe after 6 months and hundreds of pounds i could aleast get even a slight mono murmer out of it.

like a ray of light (after the death of a 4x20 Backlit LCD) my core came to life and i connected it to my laptop and began sending it .hex files:)

GOOD TIMES!

but all the display messages in the world couldnt help,

my SID still does nothing, my audio output is just a massive fuzz and i feel i have reached my final dead end.

i know this is all very mellowdramatic, but it realy is geting to me.

so here is some pics of my set up;

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o239/Air2air/Photo0304.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o239/Air2air/Photo0305.jpg

ok so some voltage info, on my SID board the 2 small IC have 4.9v (they are happy) but my SID IC (im using a 6581) only has 9.7v (DC) and my audio out for some reason has a very strange slowley decreacing voltage starting at 5vDC. ???

if any one could help it would be great and i will check any connections or voltages that you recomend, your my only hope...

alex.x

[nILS]

As long as the voltage on the SIDs is not ~12V you can't really expect anything but static and noise. So first up you'll need a working PSU. The easiest way to achieve that would be to get a 11-15V wall wart and feed the SID modules with it. Remove all the ICs, plug in the new wallwart, measure the voltages - if they're all good, and you only get 12V where you're supposed to, put the ICs back in and prepare for some SID goodness ;)

Giving up is not an option :D

[DJ Trago]

oki-dokie, im on it! 8)

any surgestions for good uk retailers of such a device?

oh and design wise what should i do? with the conections an so on? i assume i basicaly rebuild the OPSU but scrap the top rail (14v) and replace it with adapter?

keep the love coming!x

[DJ Trago]

OK, iv been a man on a mission and found a second power supply and got  :D FULL POWER :D

GOOD TIMES!!!

and no horrid hum, in fact i have a lovely test tone and all is good...

...no, its never that easy, test tone? yes! but thats as far as it wants to go, when i upload the main program and press some keys i get nothing still which is quite worrying as now iv proved that all the connections and power must be good enough to get some sound, but sound i can use is another matter  :(

i also tryed the pin check file and i dont know if i was just doing it wrong but it didnt seem to do much, my LCD registered that i was moving the mod wheel (changed the selected pin on the read out) but all the voltaged remained the same on my SID ??? should i be messuring between pin and ground or pin an pin14?

a breakthrough is only a breakthrough if you can make use of the hole you have made.x

[fussylizard]

Great that you got full power!  Yea!  When I got that 1Khz testtone myself I was ecstatic.

Did the testtone app work both without a SID (bridging pins 8 and 27 with a wire) and with a SID in?

For the interconnect app test between pin 14 on the SID (ground) and the pin displayed on the display (i.e. A0 = pin 9).  The selected pin should be +5V when selected with the mod wheel and 0V otherwise.  The /CS pin (pin 8) is the opposite, and should show 0V when selected and +5V otherwise.  You might have to take the SID chip out when you test this (that's how I tested mine).  If you don't have the expected voltages then start by verifying the two 74HC595 chips on the SID board are getting correct power (pin 8 = ground, pin 16 = +5V).

Good luck!

C

[nILS]

Working testtone app is a nice indicator - you're getting there. Now take one step at a time. Do you _know_ you midi keyboard or whatever you use is actually correctly sending out MIDI Notes on Channel 1? You could check that by running it into your PC and using MIOS Studio's input monitor to check the messages received.

If that doesn't solve it, recheck the wiring once more. Take a close look at the schematics on ucapps.de and make sure you don't miss any of the subtle, small, tiny, semi-hidden wires ;)

[DJ Trago]

yo yo! im still not realy getting very far,

test tone. with SID all good and without SID also works but is insainly loud, scared the crap out of me infact! :o which lead me to think maybe the tone with SID is perhaps wrong. but i was also very confused about why you get a tone without the SID? what produces it?

but anyway, more importantly the interconection test...

mesuring voltages without the SID i get nothing when i change between any of them apart from the cs pin that is 0V when slected and then 5V when not selected (thats what it is suposed to to isnt it?)  ???

so if any ones got any top shelf advice for me then id love to here it :)

one thing that i had considered was my CORE SID interconections, i have SmashTV boards that are super lovely but a little confusing sometimes, heres my conections

CORE SID

vs (j2) >  vs

vd (j2)

[DJ Trago]

sorry i tryed to use tab and it posted beffor i was finnished (noob error!)

CORE      SID

vs (j2) >  vs

vd (j2) >  vc

so (j10)>  so

rc (j10)>  rc

clk(j10)> clk

mu(j10)> mu

and thats that, good? bad? ugly?

[fussylizard]

You get a tone without a SID because the PIC generates a 1Khz triangle wave signal straight to the /CS line (bypassing other chips).  When you connect /CS to the output pin in the SID socket with a wire the 1 Khz tone goes straight to the output buffer circuit, giving you a tone.  That tone sure is loud though.  I had headphones plugged into the output jack (not wearing them, thankfully!) and right before I powered it up I worried that I might not hear the tone, etc.  Well, no worries there.  For newbies out there, if you are not sure if you can hear the tone or not, it's not working. :-)

I'm not sure how the test tone works w/ a SID, but the readme suggests it goes through the 74HC595 chips so if you get a tone with the SID installed, your 74HC595 chips are probably OK.

It makes sense that the interconnect test would work with the /CS pin since it comes straight from the PIC and bypasses the 74HC595 chips.

For the interconnect, did you connect the MD pin (you did not include it in your list)?  I've not built the standalone modules, but from the schematics and interconnect diagram everything else looks OK per your list other than the missing MD.  You should have 7 wires going into J2 on the SID board (or 8 if you connected up the unused SC signal).

BTW It looks like you can grab power (VS and VD) from the J10 Core connector instead of J2, but the way you have it w/ J2 should be fine.

[Flemming]

sorry i tryed to use tab and it posted beffor i was finnished (noob error!)

CORE      SID

vs (j2) >  vs

vd (j2) >  vc

so (j10)>  so

rc (j10)>  rc

clk(j10)> clk

mu(j10)> mu

and thats that, good? bad? ugly?

As far as i know the SID and Core should be connected like it says here in the wiki

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=midibox_sid_faq#how_do_i_connect_the_sid-module_to_the_core-module

.. it worked for me anyways ;) The wiki is a really great place to look for info when you're stuck!

[DJ Trago]

AND THE GATES OF SIDIY ZION OPENED!!!!

yay :) :) :)

thats some good SID, yer i hadnt got the MD SC connection, noob error but all sorted now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4UEavSILe4

there is a strange release sound that holds after the note has been played, but my next task is to link up my bank stick...

back soon ;)

[Flemming]

What a joy to know that you're getting happier :)

The release you're talking about, it's not normal for the default patch.. does the sound just keep sounding or does it fade out eventually??

I myself has a 6581 which is partly dead. One of it's flaws is exactly as you describe; The last note will hang forever and never closes :( Do you have another 6581 you can test to see if the 'release-problem' is really SIDchip-related?

[DJ Trago]

yer im going to try that when i get home, im at school at the mo.

one other thing i was going to ask does any one have the conections for the minimal conntrol surface, i meen what pins do each of the push buttons and enc plug in to and do they all just go to ground? i have searched for this but only found the basic 16enc pdf and the 32buttons pdf.

[Flemming]

The control surface pins are dictated by the software, have a look at the source code in 'setup_6581.asm'. If you just need to know the 'minimal surface' pins to hook up to your DIN module then that should do it for you. If you wanna do anything fancy as assigning the pins yourself or use Core/J5 as DIN then you have to compile the source yourself.

You really wanna do some reading before digging into this whole control surface thing.. i know because i found it pretty puzzling myself :) I'm really not trying to act smart or anything but it may be a nice thing to get the 'entrails' running properly first?

Remember to check out both wiki, forum and ucapps pages.. chances are that someone before you had a similar problem ;)

[DJ Trago]

yer i knew that was gona be a whole new kettle of fish! ;)

but i just tryed my other SID chip and iv got the same issue with the quiet held note at the after iv played that note, intrestingly when i turn the volume of the note down the held note is still present, it strangely attenuats to silence when the volume value is at 33 an then comes back when i bring the value down lower  ??? and i can play just the quite held note when volume is at at 0.

any one elce had this problem?

x

[sineSurfer]

Hi DJ Trago, are your sid chips 6581? if so, they are known to be noisy, and the quiet held note remaining sound... comes with them, at least that's how my 6581's work ;)

[DJ Trago]

hahaha i should have guessed! hmmmm i will put up some audio clips i abit, i knew that the 6581s were noisy but this is odd coz the note is only present after initialy pressing a note, as in its silent untill i press a note then its held ??? if id known they were going to be like this id have bought the 8580 :-[

[nebula]

Back in the day (like, mid-1980s) I actually managed to destroy a couple of 6581s by trying to connect them to a telephone line (for touchtone dialing).  After they were damaged, their output was much quieter, so you would need to severely boost the volume of your speakers, which of course drastically amplified the noise floor and made that "last sound sustaining forever" much, much more noticable.

I suspect your 6581 is likely damaged in the same way.  You really need to try another SID.

[DJ Trago]

yer i have 2 x 6581 SIDs and they both have the same issue which is why i thought it might be a problem with something elce, and im realy hopeing that i dont have 2 duf SIDs coz that would be realy (pardon my french) shite! but if this is the case i will just have to grit and bear it, ebay here i come! ;)

[fussylizard]

Wow, great news that it's working!

I may have the same problem with the note being held on my 6581 from my old C-128.  I'm not sure if that is normal or what.  I've not looked into it yet to see if it's a SID problem, etc.  I'll watch this space to see if anything comes up. :-)  I have 6582 SIDs on the way from Wilba anyway so for me it's probably a moot point, but I might run 6581s off one core of my MB-6582.