R64 Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 Hey gangI finally finished my assembly, but I'm not sure if I'm being stupid or I have a fault, or both. I turn it on, and i get the MIOS startup on screen, my CS LEDs flicker, and then the screen changes toREADY.No flashing cursor or anything, no movement, no sound (except a click when powered off or on). I try all the buttons and encoders, but it doesn't give me any love.I know the road to midibox love is long and hard, but I've come too far now to give up!I have checked- Continuity of my ribbons- R80 is all there- I have only 1 PIC and pair of SIDs in, but from what I've read so far this should still work (I have all the memory and shifty chips in- J11 is in but this shouldn't make a difference innit- I checked all the voltages a while back after I finished the base. When I tested the base the same thing happened, but I thought it must be that I have no controls to do anything with...- I have no R57-61 as I have 6pin resistor networks (which are all good)If someone could help me out it would be much appreciated!Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flemming Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 How did the upload of the MB-6582 app to the cores work out for you?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 The good news is, your PIC is working, your LCD is connected properly and working, and (most likely) your LEDs are working.The bad news is, you forgot to upload the MB-SID app!You can find the latest version in the "MIOS8 Download" page (see link on the left).The latest version is midibox_sid_v2_0_rc31.zipUse MIOS Studio to upload setup_mb6582.hex to each Core, by changing the jumper in J11 to 1,2,3,4 and setting the Device ID to 0,1,2,3 respectively.After you've uploaded the MB-SID app once to each Core, you won't need to upload to Core 2,3,4 again, you can upload just to Core 1, then "clone" to the other Cores by holding down the Menu button when powering on.There's more information about all this in the MB-6582 documentation and the MB-SID User Manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R64 Posted June 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Ah I see...I thought this was all done when I bought the MB6582 PICs from SmashTV.Thanks Wilba! Will get busy on this now and see how I go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon1346 Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Hello everybody :)I reply to this topic because my symptoms are the same.The MB-6582 is staying on "Ready", and that's normal without an application upload.The problem is that I can't upload anything.First I've tried the upload with midistudio, then with midi OX.I noticed that the midi out port of the MB-6582 never outputs anything.Of course I suspected my cheap midi interface to be the source of this, but I was wrong.I tested it with another synthesizer and received my old TX81Z Sysex with success.I also changed the position of the J11 jumper to see if one of the four cores would "say" something.Still nothing on the midi out...I deceided to check the continuity between the pin 25 to the midi out (J12 M-), and I've got a 220ohms resistance.Then I tried something really silly : Doing a shortcut between Rx and Tx by putting a jumper on the J11_CORE headers.And guess what, I receive lots of upload request, exactly as mentionned on Thorsten's Midi Troubleshooting guide.At least I saw something on the Midi In Monitor!! :oNow I'm terribly happy but it still doesn't work. :PI miss something and I haven't got a clue of what.I can understand why I never get anything on outputs of any pic. ???Any help would be greatly appreciated :)Best regards, Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Maybe you can skip ahead and try TEST INOUT1:Take out all the PICs, put jumper in J11 for Core 1, and jumper bridging Tx/Rx of Core 1.Thus it will be like this diagram: http://www.ucapps.de/howtodebug/mbhp_core_extract_io_loopback.gif(Make sure the optocoupler 6N138 is installed)Power on, you should not receive any MIDI data.Then send some MIDI data.What you send out should be received in the MIDI In window.This will probably work for you, because of what you said already.NOW...Take out the jumper bridging Tx/Rx of Core 1.Power on, you should not receive any MIDI data.Then send some MIDI data.If you receive the MIDI data the same as before, then there is a short between Tx/Rx pins, just like when the jumper was shorting these pins.Report back what you discover from these tests.I can only help you one step at a time... otherwise I would have to write a whole troubleshooting guide like TK's, most of which probably does not apply in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon1346 Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 First, thank you very much Wilba for this fast answer :)Here the results of the tests :1st TestAs you asked, I took off all pics, put a jump to position 1 of J11 and another one on J11_CORE1 to loop Rx and Tx. I sent some Note On/Note Off using MidiOx and I received them back from the midi out of the MB-6582.2nd TestI removed the jumper on J11_CORE1, and now when I send some Note On/Note Off, nothing is going out by the midi out of the MB-6582.We can conclude that there's no short. ???I still wonder what can be wrong :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 The GOOD NEWS is... your optocoupler is working and your MIDI sockets are working.OK some more questions (just to find out what it might be):Did you get the PIC from SmashTV with MIOS already installed?Did you get the base PCB parts from SmashTV?Perhaps (unlikely) the crystals are not 10MHz so the PIC will boot but it is not transmitting on the correct baud rate.Let's try testing if anything is being sent from the PIC.Insert PIC into Core 1, set J11 to 1, NO jumper in J11_CORE1 (Tx/Rx).Take out MIDI cables.Put a LED in the MIDI Out socket like this:In this case, the cathode (short lead) goes into the pin closest to the power socket/switch, next to the middle pin... the anode (long lead) goes in the other pin next to the middle pin. Make sure the leads are parallel and go at least 5mm or so into the socket (ensure good connection with the socket).Power on.The LED should flash on for maybe 1/10th of a second. Since you have MIOS installed, it should only flash once. If only the bootloader was installed, it should flash every 2 seconds.Repeat this test with ALL the PICs you have, installed into Core 1 (only use one PIC at a time in Core 1). You can also switch from LED to MIDI cable and check again if you get any MIDI In from any of the PICs in Core 1.I'll help more after you report back with results... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R64 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 It's uploading right now!I have never known excitement like this!Formatting 64K... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R64 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Oh wait.No upload request from PIC 2PIC 3 Uploaded OKPIC 4 Uploaded OKNo screen lights for PIC2-4 (I'm guessing this is normal)One failing LED (Sync - maybe this is normally off?)All encoders OKNot bad!Will try putting pic 2 into slot 1 and see if that uploads (as device id 1)... [edit: It does, so the PIC is OK. After upload it still shows as 1*-- / -*3- / -*-4 I just have to get busy troubleshooting. Lots of jumpers there maybe I can use them..?] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon1346 Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 No screen lights for PIC2-4 (I'm guessing this is normal)I confirm you it's normal. There's only backlight power for core 1. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon1346 Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Hello Wilba,All the parts I've got are coming from SmashTV (Hello Tim!!).The PICs are also coming from SmashTV, I received them burned with Mios 1.9fCrystals are 10MHz, they are flat on the PCB, there's not a lead longer than the other.Now about the test of the LED on midi output :I have a very short flash exactly when I switch power on.I insist on the fact that there's no delay between the moment I see the LED flashing and I push the power button.Then two seconds later, the PIC puts the "MIOS V1.9f..." message on the display.Now I remove the LED, and plug the MIDI interface.When I monitor the MIDI output of the MB-6582 with MidiOx during the power on, there's nothing, no message at all. But I'm sure that the power on "LED flash" happens on the MIDI output because my MIDI interface has 3 LEDs on it (usb power, midi in, midi out) and its yellow MIDI In LED flashes the same way (i.e. single short flash) did the LED I used for previous tests.That's all for tonight, I go to bed :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Usually the initial flash indicates the upload request being sent - if you do not receive it on the PC side, make sure your core <-> PC wiring is correct (PC MIDI In <-> Core MIDI Out, PC MIDI Out <-> Core MIDI In). Since the LEDs on your MIDI interface has flashy leds as well, that part seems good - is the routing in the PC correct? Use MIOS Studio and make sure to connect your MIDI Interface's Out port with the "MIOS Studio In Port" in the "MIDI Device Routing" Window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon1346 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Hello Nils :)About the MIDI routing in Mios Studio, I think my settings are correct.When I put off the PIC1 and put a jumper on J11_CORE1, the MIDI loop between MB-6582 and PC seems ok.I receive in the MiosStudio MIDI In monitor all messages I send with the virtual keyboard.And if I put a PIC while there's a jumper on J11_CORE1, I can monitor lot of "truncated" SysEx requests.If the LED flash during power on must be a SysEx request, in my case it's certainly a non valid MIDI message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon1346 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I've got some news.I've just read the midi interface blacklist, and effectively my cheap Ebay interface is into it.And now it's sure, it's a midi interface issue.As I never saw any MIDI message on MIDI IN monitors on my PC, I tried on a Mac.Here's the result : I'll try to put my hand on a decent midi interface, and I'll keep you informed.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R64 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Hey I'm all uploaded now, turns out I had a 100N capacitor in with my 33pf ones and I had put it in the PCB. Schoolboy error.Not making any sound though when midi is pumped through. Running the test app I don't get a tone for PICs 1&2, but do for 3&4.Nearly there!Trying the Core-SID interconnection test next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R64 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I have to admit I'm having a bit of trouble making sense of the connectivity app. The documentation is a bit sparse...=interconnection&s[]=test]http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=home:skills:troubleshooting:firmware&s[]=interconnection&s[]=testThe readme is also a bit confusing. I've added the readmes from the app (and the test tome generator) into the wiki (with __?__ where it is unclear), so just need to fill in the gaps.If anyone could give me some guidance on where I'm supposed to be connecting the multimeter (or even just the naming of the pins!) it would be much appreciated! I've tried around the socket with no luck.The pins are labelled A0-A4, D0-D7, but I can't figure out what they are meant to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Refer to the SID module schematic:http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_sid_v3.pdfIt labels which pins on the SID are A0-A4 etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R64 Posted July 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Great thanks again Wilba.I've added it into the wiki so it'll come up if you search for e.g. SID PIN A0Will try to get through the other apps when I come across them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R64 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 I'm getting somewhere, but, well this is oddThe test app tells me that the CS pin is not connected on the RHS SID for both the cores that aren't outputting sound (i.e. it shows 0V when I select Pin CS with mod wheel event 14)AND both the ones that are.So I'm thinking this is a peculiarity of the application that it doesn't care about the RHS SID CS pin.I have continuity right to the PIC for the CS pin, so this doesn't really bother me.Also the application outputs voltage to pin D7 when the CS pin is selected. Again I think this is the software. "Undocumented feature". ;)So It seems I'm passing all the core connectivity tests. On to the double checking of the amp stage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R64 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 I tell you what, it is actually quite rewarding doing this troubleshooting!When you find the fault, or at least define the problem, there is that sense of achievement...I had 6582As and 8580s only in the 1st two modules. When I tried 6581s in the non-working modules they worked. So problem is either all my 9V SIDs are blown, or my 9V line isn't working.Let's see which... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 So I'm thinking this is a peculiarity of the application that it doesn't care about the RHS SID CS pin.Quite possible... it was written before MB-SID V2 and stereo SID support.However, I am very sure the testtone app outputs on both channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I had 6582As and 8580s only in the 1st two modules. When I tried 6581s in the non-working modules they worked. So problem is either all my 9V SIDs are blown, or my 9V line isn't working.Very unlikely you blew the 9V SIDs unless you had them connected to 12V, and you would not have inserted a SID without checking the voltage on pin 28, right?? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R64 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Of course! :PMy 7809 regulator was "missing a leg." I lost a trace when I had to rework it to fit in the heatsink and neglected to test.Man this feels great. All tests now passed.Funny, now that I'm finished I have this serious desire to make another midibox!No I think I'll make some music first. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Funny, now that I'm finished I have this serious desire to make another midibox!That's called the "Imbambcia"*-syndrom.*I must build another MIDIbox cause I'm addicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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