MB-6582 Ponoko Panel layouts

[JaseM]

I was hoping to get some critiques about my panel layout before I sent it to Ponoko.

The layouts themselves are mostly the same as the one on the MB-6582 wiki, http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_6582 .  The main differences being that I've added mounting holes to the front panel and vents to the rear.

I'm not sure if my SIDs would need the extra ventilation, but an ounce of prevention and all.

As for the mounting holes, I was reading the post on vcfools' finished MB-6582 that JB-Weld would work on acrylic.  

For an explanation on the test layout, the blue lines are cuts.  The red and green are engraving.  Red is for heavy engraving while green is medium. I'm also uploading a page from Ponoko's guide to give you an idea of the differences.

Seeing that red, blue and green might be hard to see; I'm also going to upload the layouts in black and white.

Thanks in advance for the insights and information.

Jase M

P.S. If anyone wants them, I can provide the .eps, .ai and .svg files for my layout.

ponoko.zip

[nILS]

At that resolution it's really hard to give you any advice. Could you upload the .svg please? Preferably exactly the one you are going to order? That allows us to check the line width, exact colors, etc. (ponoko is kinda funny if you have small "errors" in the svg)

[Wilba]

I'm also happy to help check your SVG.

You really should use lots of guidelines and do everything in 0mm stroke (or no stroke), using Outline mode.

If you can get all your artwork done as vector engraving, then paint filling it becomes a viable option. Do not try to do small text in raster engraving. In fact, just avoid raster engraving. FWIW I'm converting sammichSID artwork to vector only, so everything comes out looking a lot more like CNC engraved instead of blotchy dotty raster engraved.

Also, what's the intended material?

[Wilba]

You really should use lots of guidelines and do everything in 0mm stroke (or no stroke), using Outline mode.

What I mean is... develop the layout in 0mm stroke (stroke unset) so your hole sizes are exact. Then at a later stage, you set the required stroke thickness/colour to suit Ponoko and paste it into their pre-prepared SVG templates.

[JaseM]

Sorry about the wait.  I needed CS3 and had to wait until I got to work.

One more thing about the artwork; I directly imported the .dxf files that were on the wiki http://www.mb6582.org/plans/MB-6582_panels_r2_dxf.zip, into Illustrator.  I had to re-size them once I imported to get them to a 1:1 ratio.

I tried checking them with a PCB image, and everything seemed to line up.

MB-6582_PK.svg.zip

[frailn]

JaseM - I was considering doing this for MB-6582 panels, as well, after reading Wilba's post regarding Ponoko and the new sammichSID. Are you ordering from the US location? If so, I would be interested in going in on a panel set with you. Guess it depends on how many panel sets you can get on one sheet of material and how many sets you need and which material you are using. I'm just looking for one set. Let me know if you are interested.

[Wilba]

There's some problems with this design, at least as I view it in Inkscape.

The biggest problem is the size - it's 185.928mm x 130.617mm.

The top panel of a PT-10 (and also same size as the MB-6582 CS PCB) is 232.41mm x 163.27mm

Since everything is scaled incorrectly, thus all the holes sizes and positions are also wrong.

However, the holes you added for mounting are huge compared to the holes for LEDs. Surely you only need a 3mm diameter hole for screws to mount through the panel.

As I said before, you really should do it from scratch using guidelines and such so you know the coordinates of each hole and can verify it with the FPD file and mount hole coordinates.

In regards to the engraving, I'd recommend heavy vector (255,0,0) for all engraving. For the dividing lines, use three heavy vector lines in parallel to create a thicker line, i.e. for each diving line, add one to each side at 0.15mm offset. If you want to get fancy, edit the nodes so the outlines don't overlap other lines. Of course you can't do this properly until all the rest is at the right scale.

The advantage of using vector engraving and no raster is, Ponoko can engrave with the paper backing still on the acrylic, thus you'll get a perfect mask for doing paint filling. I'm not exactly sure how well this idea will work with such small text... it might be a good idea though to duplicate all the text so the laser does it all three times and makes a slightly wider and deeper engraving. This will cost more but the paint filling might work better.

Also you haven't told me what material you plan to use... if it's 2mm clear, then you don't need the LCD window cutout, if it's >2mm then the switch shafts won't protrude past the top of the panel.

[JaseM]

All right I've updated the file.  I'm not sure about the text idea, but I edited the heavy lines like you suggested.

On the size issue, I think something must've happened when I zipped the file.  I went and checked the dimensions on the files I had and both the svg and the ai files had the correct dimensions for the front panel.  I took screenshots to show you what I'm seeing.

Sizewise, I had thought of trying to match the original metal panel size of .6mm.  But now I'm not sure if that's going to be strong enough.  So maybe 1-1.5mm?

As far as multiple panels are concerned, I'm thinking it might be a better idea if I run this solo.  Considering I've never created panels before, this might not turn out as well as I hope.

Jase M

MB-6582_PK.zip

Edited October 24, 2009 by JaseM

[Wilba]

The original panels on the PT-10 (and what I suggest people make using Front Panel Express or Schaeffer) is 1.5mm thick aluminium.

This means 13mm tactile switches will protrude 1.5mm (13mm - 10mm spacer - 1.5mm panel = 1.5mm)

You can use 2mm but that makes the switch caps only protrude 1mm which is still functional but not preferred.

What material do you want to use? The metals from Ponoko can't be engraved, btw, and the only 2mm acrylic is clear.

[frailn]

How do you think PETG would work? Ponoko has it in 1 mm. Too flimsy?

[JaseM]

Well, after reading the PT-10 data sheet and the Ponoko starter pack, I'm thinking the material I'll use is acrylic.  The thickness would probably be .06 inches.  I'm debating between Black, Red or Red Tint.  I'm leaning towards Red or Red Tint, mainly because I have red Waldorf knobs and red LEDs.

Jase M

[JaseM]

I'm not sure how PETG would work.  I'm not familiar with the material and it's strengths/weaknesses.

Jase M

[frailn]

I'm thinking the material I'll use is acrylic.  The thickness would probably be .06 inches.

I just signed up for the free account on Ponoko. But, I'm not seeing this thickness for acrylic on their materials page - in the US or NZ. Unless...I see that with a paid account the number of materials is listed as "60 + your requests"

Just curious if getting .06" acrylic is possible to obtain with a paid account.

[JaseM]

I just noticed that.

On the starter pack they distribute, they list the thicknesses up to .16 inches. 

Maybe that's for Premium members?  Or is it what they have available?

I'll try and e-mail them and find out.

Jase M

[Wilba]

Ponoko Prime members can request other materials, but it's not like there's a list of materials available just for them, you have to request them specifically.

The problem I see is that you want to make something the same as the 1.5mm aluminium panel but Ponoko just doesn't really have a compatible material - only the transparent acrylic comes in 2mm, the rest are 3mm minimum... the metals can't be engraved... the other plastics are too flimsy for panels. This is why I haven't bothered doing an MB-6582 panel from Ponoko yet, because I'm not that interested in totally clear... the matte black acrylic I'm using for sammichSID is very nice but minimum 3mm thick.

If you're keen to do 2mm clear acrylic, go for it... if you've taken the DXF files I published and scaled exactly so all the cutouts are in the right positions and the right size, it should work... I think those files were used by Narwhal and others to make their own panels so there should be no problems... but please take your time and let me check your final SVGs before ordering from Ponoko so I can help you avoid an expensive mistake.

[JaseM]

All right, I've fixed some issues with the rear panel hole sizes.  I also double checked the sizes on the front panel to make sure that I hadn't made the same mistake on the front panel (thankfully, I didn't).

I haven't gotten a response back yet from Ponoko on the material thickness.  I'll let you guys know when I hear something.

MB-6582_PK3.zip

Edited October 24, 2009 by JaseM

[JaseM]

OK, here's the response I got from Ponoko:

Josh Judkins | Ponoko, Oct 20 15:20 (NZDT):

Hi JaseM,

Thanks for getting in touch. The thinnest acrylic sheets we currently have in our standard catalog are clear at 0.08 inches - the rest of the colors start at 0.12 inches - as per our catalog:

http://www.ponoko.com/make-and-sell/materials/United-States

I'm told by the materials expert that it *is* possible for Prime members to order in 0.06 inch thick sheets - but the only ones he knows of are from Acrylite and are likely to be significantly more expensive than the ones currently in our catalog.

I hope that helps for starters. Just let me know if you have any further questions, or anything else I can assist with.

Thanks!

Josh Judkins

Service Team | Ponoko

JaseM, Oct 19 12:00 (NZDT):

I was curious about the thicknesses available for your acrylic. I was looking to make an acrylic panel for a Synth project I was working on and needed two pieces .06 inches thick. Do you carry this thickness, or is it something that is specially ordered?

So, it looks like you can get the sheets at .06 inches (1.524 mm for the metric crowd), but it's a question of cost.

I'll try and get an quote when I get off work.

Jase M

[frailn]

Hey, Jase - how's the ponoko project coming along? I've been working on the same front panel in Inkscape, when I have time. Looking forward to see how this works out for you.

[JaseM]

I'm pretty sure I've got the panel set up done. It's the same one I uploaded as "MB-6582_PK3.zip".

The main issue I'm finding is somewhere to have the product made. From what Ponoko is saying, it'll be at least $30 USD for a sheet of acrylic the right thickness. And since it's a request, I'd imagine it's going to be another $30 USD for a Prime membership.

I could try and see how many panel sets I could fit on the larger sheet, since that's what they would get. If anyone's interested in going in on a panel set, I could try and get more details on what colors would be available.

Otherwise, I'll probably see if I could get something comparable from julianf. I like his panels, I'd just want to see if he'd cut the extra holes.

[frailn]

I'm pretty sure I've got the panel set up done. It's the same one I uploaded as "MB-6582_PK3.zip".

The main issue I'm finding is somewhere to have the product made. From what Ponoko is saying, it'll be at least $30 USD for a sheet of acrylic the right thickness. And since it's a request, I'd imagine it's going to be another $30 USD for a Prime membership.

I could try and see how many panel sets I could fit on the larger sheet, since that's what they would get. If anyone's interested in going in on a panel set, I could try and get more details on what colors would be available.

Otherwise, I'll probably see if I could get something comparable from julianf. I like his panels, I'd just want to see if he'd cut the extra holes.

I would like to use your work to create a clear acrylic option from Ponoko, if you don't mind. I can verify what you have created using Wilba's FPD file - by comparing the position and sizes of all the holes, text, etc... The hard part I'm finding is that FPD and Inkscape use a different anchor point. For example - in FPD, the position of an LED hole is based on the center of the object. In Inkscape, it's based on the top-left position of the object. It's not a show-stopper, just a huge pain in the butt and the risk of getting an object's position wrong becomes greater. Maybe I'm not using Inkscape correctly? This information is based on me playing around in Inkscape. I haven't opened up your file to review it yet.

[Wilba]

No, you're right, Inkscape can be a huge pain in the butt in this regard, which is why I was suggesting doing it sort of manually - placing a lot of guidelines and centering things based on these, or at least validating that way. In doing so, you'll soon discover the FPD has the origin in the top left corner (legacy from originally using Zoner Draw for the panel design, which was page-coordinate based). Moving the origin in FPD might help.

[JaseM]

I don't know if Inkscape can handle it, but you could try and import the .dxf file from the Wiki page into Inkscape.

That's how I started my layout. Once I imported, I grouped everything together, the used a scale function to size everything to the correct overall size. For the front panel, 232.41 x 163.27 mm; For the Rear, 52.58 x 217.93 mm.

If Inkscape can't handle .dxf, I could try and give you a direct .dxf import from Illustrator and save it as .svg.