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ableton live clips controller - "finished" design


ultra
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i'm looking to get feedback on my design for an ableton live clip control device. especially from anybody who might be interested in pcbs or a kit. i've designed the entire project with easy to get and inexpensive parts, so if anybody's interested i may do a run of pcbs.

as some if you know, i've been working on this for quite a while. i started out with the software, making a way for midibox and ableton live (via liveAPI) to communicate with detailed information. then i designed pcbs for it, and have a working prototype. now i've changed the design to be much smaller than the original PT-10 case. i took a CATIA class this semester and did the design in 3d so i could see how it all fits together (the case is only 1.3" high).

the box is comprised of only two pcbs. a core32, and the control surface. it's usb powered (although i might add a power connector that automatically switches off usb power) so there are only two wires necessary: the ribbon cable from the core32 to the control surface, and a usb cable. simplicity and minimalism is best. :)

my own needs have been met with the design, but i'm looking for feedback from anyone else who might want to buy a pcb and build it. maybe i've left out some kinds of control that others could use. keep in mind that other boxes are planned for other things, and this design is pretty much only related to clips.

the interface:

top_view.gif

the interface has 64 tactile buttons and and 59 3 color leds (green, red, orange) done mb6582 style.

the main section has buttons that trigger a 5 (scene) x 8 (track) grid of clips. the leds above each button give feedback based on what's going on in live. red if a clip exists but is not playing, green if a clip is playing, flashing green if a clip is about to be triggered, and orange if a clip is playing or looping (these might change).

the 5 buttons (vertical) to the right launch scenes.

the 8 buttons across the bottom stop the playing clip on the track, and the bottom-right button stops all clips.

the left side has play/stop controls, record mode toggle, overdub toggle, and each has led feedback to show the state.

the bottom left are the bank buttons. the script puts the famous red box around the clips on live's interface, and the bank buttons will move the red box accordingly, and of course the led indicators on the clip grid will change as well.

prev is a preview button. if you "get lost" on the button grid, holding preview and pressing a clip button will put the red box around only that clip so you can see which clip you would be triggering with that button. using preview with the stop button will highlight that track, and a scene button will only highlight that scene.

sel is a select button. holding select and pressing a clip button will activate that clip and make live show clip detail at the bottom. using select with a stop button will activate the track and show device view. select and scene will activate that scene, and while holding select, a scene button will toggle between clip detail and track view (i haven't yet finalized how this function will work, but it's an idea).

the alt button will allow many other parameters to be changed at once. the first row of clip leds will now show which tracks are muted, and allow you to toggle mute for them. second row is for solo. the third and fourth row will allow you to nudge the clip forward and backward. the stop buttons at the bottom will let you toggle arm for the track, and the leds will indicate which are armed for recording. the scene buttons will change the entire mode of the box for future applications.

finally, holding the loop button will change the clip leds to show you which clips are set to loop, and let you toggle loop for that clip.

the case:

the following pictures show various views of the casing. the case is aluminum and is sold in a 4 colors, as well as bare aluminum so you can paint it yourself. i will have FPE do the cutting. i haven't yet figured out what to do for the text graphics. getting FPE to etch it is easiest, but i'd like some graphical design on it with screenprinting or lasertrans. i'm certainly open to suggestions on this. the overall size of the case is quite small: 7.38" x 4.70" x 1.30" (188mm x 119.5mm x 33mm). i'm estimating that the cost to build will be around $150 - 200. i realize that something like a novation launchpad can be bought for the same price, but money is not a reason to DIY. this will be part of a larger system, and i think that the way it's used will expand with other midiboxes.

so if anybody is interested in having one of these, this is your chance to help finalize the design. the button count will stay at 64 or less, because it's just a lot easier to use one blm scalar matrix. however, the functionality of the buttons at the left can be changed pretty easily. and almost anything you can imagine is possible with liveapi.

pr0n:

rear_view.gif

iso_transparent.gif

iso_front_material.gif

iso_back_material.gif

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Great to see your project is still going on !

Two things that popped up for me:

On the front panel, the vertical distances between the LEDs and the buttons is more or less the same, so it looks like one large grid, which is isn't.

Could be useful to move the buttons and their respective LEDs closed together in terms of vertical distance to have a better "grouping" effect (at least to my eyes ... ).

Secondly, have tried to shift the Core32 slightly outside of the main button PCB? That would need extra space on the sides, but probably, the case can get more flat.

On a similar note, how do you intend to interconnect the Core and the button PCB ? Depending on that, you might save some height space, as well.

Oh, and I'm quite anxious to see that LiveAPI implementation. If I get it right, it's a dedicated application only for the Core32, correct?

Keep up the good work ! :thumbsup:

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hello and thanks for the input,

the vertical distance is exactly the same but i don't think it'll be a problem. they're only .3" apart as it is. the closest i could get is probably .2", but then you'll be touching the led when pressing a button (maybe) and i just don't like the idea of that. after a short time of use, your eyes automatically look above the button for the led feedback. i think once this becomes a physical device, it'll look like it makes more sense.

the case for this device is pre-made:

http://www.mammothelectronics.com/4S1590DD-p/500-1003.htm

i'm limited to the dimensions of this case, which is already pretty small. i did the 3d design work to see how it would all fit together, and this is working well. i'm using short switches which will allow enough space for the ribbon cable and the core32. although you see the big capacitor in the transparent image, that will be gone (as well as the 7805) in the final version. it's not needed for usb power, and if i add a power connector that automatically disconnects the usb power (which i probably will), it'll have to be 5v regulated anyway because the power connectors are 3 pin (they share a ground).

you are right, it's core32 only. a couple reasons:

i'm not using midi in the traditional way. one command is comprised of at least 3 midi messages. doing it this way wasn't so necessary with this box, but the flexibility is for future boxes (i.e. delivering track or parameter names to a midibox). i'm concerned about the bandwidth, and i think the core32's usb midi is 16kbps. so any bandwidth issues are solved.

also, the core32 gives multiple interfaces in a single usb port. one is dedicated to ableton live communication. another can be used for general midi. and another can be used as a midi to usb interface for the physical midi ports. also i'm considering making a java application that allows customization (mostly for the future boxes) and a dedicated midi port can go to that as well.

thanks for the input and keep it coming!

ultra

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Hi Ultra,

I followed your project with much enthusiasm and it's great to see you've come so far. I would like to build such a controller, or controllers myself but LiveAPI or programming is a complete strange world for me. I recompiled some codes now and I'm really proud about that, it was all magic for me.

Last month I builded a MB64e as an Abelton's selected track controller in combination with this great midi remote script: http://stc.wiffbi.com/ I still have to write an article about it on this forum.

I use one slider to scroll through tracks and one slider to scroll through scenes, one volume slider, one start button and one stop button. And with those I can control all clips tracks and scenes in Live. But I didn't use any LED's so I don't have any visual feedback from my controller, Live only listens to my controller. The visual feedback you created using Live API and your controller 'listening' to Live and give visual feedback with those 3 colour LED's is just wonderfull.

So yeah I'm really interested in buying a kit or PCB! I also want to give you feedback but I don't know what, I had the same thoughts about the grid as StuartM, but I can follow your thoughts about it too.

I think you created a great machine and I'd love to play with it. Maybe then I get some idea of what I would change or miss or something else.

The case I like too, far more than the plastic case you had in mind before. I love the roughness about the aluminium box. It is small, normally I like big more. Like those monstermachine's like TR909 or TR808. Those are huge but that's great! All those new machines are so tiny and fragile that I don't get a real bonded feeling with them.

But with the (small)aluminium case you still get the sturdy feeling.

On a dutch synthesizer forum I came across an article about DIY etching those aluminium boxes, looks great.

Here's a PIC, a link to the 'manual' and a PDF I made from that link:acid graphics - enclosure etching

I hope more people are interested in a PCB or kit, and I'm looking foreward to the other boxes you have in mind!

Cheers,

Roel

post-8360-082142200 1305542045_thumb.jpg

acid graphics - enclosure etching.pdf

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thanks for the feedback roel!

i think i can only get away with this size because it's aluminum. it'll be heavy enough that it'll feel sturdy and it won't slide around too easily. these cases are built for guitar pedal/stompboxes (although bigger than most) so they'll be strong.

i like the aluminum etching, but i'm not sure if it's accurate enough for the way i want to do the text because it'll have to be small. the text in the images is just temporary. i'm thinking that even FPE's etching will be too big, and i need to do something graphical like lasertrans. i think that altitude (on this forum) will have some answers regarding that, and i'll ask him when i get closer to that point.

i'm realizing that i have a lot of buttons available to use as multi-function. most parameters like bpm, punch in/out, etc, i have already coded and know how to listen to in live. i didn't know tap tempo was available (i checked out that script you linked), and i'll look into that. the idea was to create a clips only controller with just a couple extra functions, because of the other controllers i'll be making. but i'm trying to keep in mind that someone might only build this one and not the others, so maybe i can add some additional control without adding more buttons. i also didn't know about monitoring. maybe i can use that too.

i appreciate your enthusiasm. right now the only thing stopping me from having this in my hands is money, and i'm hoping to work that out in the next month or so. also, i'd really like to use this format for the future midiboxes, and i'll need to do some design work to make sure they'll fit into this case as well.

i also like the idea of bigger, having one big controller that does it all. but i also imagine sitting in the park with a full studio, all running off the laptop's battery. ;)

i appreciate your enthusiasm, it keeps me going.

ultra

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