pinksoir Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Hi, This is following on from my last thread. I'd like to have dedicated buttons on my MB SID to control the arpeggiator and I'm just wondering if it's possible. Ideally I would like to have buttons for: 1 - Arp on/off (I know this is already an option) 2 - Up 3 - Down 4 - Up/Down 1 5 - Up/Down 2 (possibly a combined button to select between the 2) 6 - Down/Up 1 7 - Down/Up 2 (as above) 8 - Random 9 - Hold I'd also like to add knobs to control the arpeggiator speed, (possibly) gate length and range. It might also be cool to have a knob to cycle through the arp direction options (Up, Down, etc...) instead of buttons, and to only have buttons for On/Off and Hold. I'd also like to add a knob to control the output volume. I wonder why this isn't a standard option for the CS. So. Is any of this possible? If so, how would one go about it? Thanks a million in advance, Karl. Edited October 18, 2011 by pinksoir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00dawg Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 The only option I see when looking at the source .ASM file is: DIN_ENTRY CS_MENU_BUTTON_Arp, 0, 0 ; enables/disables the arpeggiator of *all* oscillators So to do this with native buttons, you may have to make more modifications to the source than just editing the DIN/DOUT tables. I would look at the source with your on eyes, though. It's available here. The MB-SID firmware, I think, supports assignable knobs so you could potentially use that feature on a full blown control surface as well. I'm still working on my control surface so I don't know all of its features so don't quote me on this part :) As far as the volume, are you referring to the output volume of the synth itself or of the SID channels? For the synth (aka global volume, I suppose), you would typically control that using analog pots (10k log ones specifically if I remember correctly). Controlling the volume on the SID can be done as well, but you'll probably find more use out of that feature by mapping it to a modulation source such as LFOs, MIDI velocity, etc. There is a menu option for volume, however, if you just want to set it to a value (though I would think that would be better done via an analog mixer or in post). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksoir Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Cheers m00dawg. I saw that parameter in the source too. Like you, it's the only one I can see referencing the arp though. There is mention of midi CCs for controlling arp speed and gate speed too in the "MIDIbox SID V2 CC Implementation Chart" on UcApps. However, I see no mention of the arp type/direction anywhere. I have a feeling it should be controllable though, simply by virtue of being controllable in the main menu. Though, as I am an ignoramus I could easily be wrong! As for volume, yeah I mean global volume. A 10k pot sounds about right. I presume it'd be inserted between the output pins and the output jack? Thanks again for your help. Edited October 18, 2011 by pinksoir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00dawg Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 The MIDI implementation is actually quite complete, although the NRPN stuff took some time for me to get used to. I suspect you could do some interesting things via MIDI to get around the limitations on the control surface. It could be easy to add support for controlling the arps directly as well but that's sort of speculation on my part - I haven't dug into the source that much. As far as the volume, yes it would go in between your outputs and the jack. Depending on how attenuated the volume is normally, you may want to boost things a bit using something like the CMoy (which is, in large part, simply an op-amp). I am going to be either using a CMoy-inspired design, or will use line-drivers to boost the audio levels a bit for my passively mixed outputs. Could be something to consider in your design, depending on your goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksoir Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 A CMoy amp seems pretty easy and a nice addition alright. Cheers for that. I'd say that I'll be using my MBSID mostly in studio, but quite probably live too. I'll look into implementing it into the design, though I'm not sure how necessary it'd be for my uses really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00dawg Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Yeah I was more interested in the line drivers so I could use balanced cabling but, really, my synth will be right next to my rackmount audio device (once I finally buy that thing...err and finish my rackmount SID :P) so it seemed a little over the top. For live, I would recommend using a live mixer. If you have multiple SID pairs, might be easier to control them, plus everything else in your live show, from one board. I haven't looked at the MBSID audio pipeline in a while, but I like having op-amps before my audio jacks just in case something bad were to happen. That way the op-amp dies before anything else does. Might not be needed, but can't hurt either. Op-amps, plus the other components, do marginally change the sound but if you do it right it should generally be for the better (superior bass response perhaps). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksoir Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Ahoy. I'll probably put one in there for, as with you, the peace of mind. I'd say I'll only have one stereo SID pair though as I'll be using the MB SID as a one part mono/poly synth within a band setup. In all likelihood it'll only ever put out mono live though, stereo is a rare enough thing at gigs. I'd happily have just a single SID, but am I right in thinking that one SID=3 note polyphony and a SID pair=6 note polyphony? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00dawg Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Correct, so if you want 6 note polyphony, you'd want to split the stereo out and make each channel mono at your mixer. You can also use the multi-enginer so that the left SID is playing different things than the right. I've done that when wanting a bassline + lead type of thing on my sammichSID, for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksoir Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Sweet. Multi engine sounds like fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonas Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 As for volume, yeah I mean global volume. A 10k pot sounds about right. I presume it'd be inserted between the output pins and the output jack? I have the output of all the SIDs going to R and L mono jacks which I connect to a multitracker for recording purposes, but it was too cumbersome to mess with the multitracker set up just to play with and test different sounds (i.e. most of the time), so I built in a stereo earphone jack parallel to the R and L jacks and a global volume knob (10k log) for it so that I don't need to connect anything external to the MBsid (apart from earphones) in order to use it. For this kind of use there's no need for extra amplification, in fact without the volume knob it was too loud and I needed the knob to be there to lower the volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksoir Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 So. Anyone have any information on arpeggiator buttons? I guess Thorsten is the guy who will know . :ike: THORSTEN!!! :ike: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 For me it's normally faster to implement it into the firmware than explaining somebody who never programmed in assembly language before how to get it working. So, you are asking me to do the work, right? Would it be ok to use a single button to select the arpeggiator mode? Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksoir Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Hi, Thanks a million for your reply. So my control surface would be something like this: I have to say that I don't really feel comfortable asking someone to do all the work for me, but if it is something simple enough and you wouldn't mind, then I would very much appreciate your time and effort. The CS mock up above is a rough idea and I think it would definitely be better to control the arp mode with one button. I would like to have a gate length encoder too. So I guess the extra controls needed would be: Buttons: On/Off; Arp Mode; Hold. Encoders: Speed; Gate; Range. Obviously there would need to be one LED each for On/Off and Hold, and 7 LEDs for the Arp Mode selector. Also, on the mock up above there are no buttons for Up and Down (near the shift button on the complete CS). However, I would be using them on the final version. Again, thanks so much for your time and I hope it's not too much to ask. Karl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinksoir Posted November 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Hey, Any update on this at all? Thanks, Karl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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