14 replies to this topic

[Blatboy]

I posted this problem on another forum, but moved it here today. After another two hours this afternoon of reading documentation, searching the forum, and trying to find the solution, I'm sadly still at the same place I started. I hope you can help. I'm SO close to being able to play with this thing!

I have two very basic issues keeping me from SID glory. I feel like it might be I'm missing something I should do in the operating system, but I just can't seem to fix it.:

• Notes triggered via MIDI not playing on any SID. I can get sound (only from SID 1) using "play" button. I've run the midi monitor app and the note in/out commands seem to be making it into the box. I have all four SIDs set to channel 1. I'm transmitting on channel 1. I've tried via my Logic setup and via the keyboard in MIOS Studio.
  
• "PLAY" mode gets no sound from SIDs 2, 3, and 4. I've run the test tone app, and I do get a sound that way from the other cores, so it seems everything on the hardware end seems to be in order. However, when I set up the other SIDs with patches I get no sounds. This may be related to the first problem since I can't seem to get the box to react to MIDI notes. Does the PLAY button only work for SID 1? It would seem if I had other SID engine(s) selected it should play them, too. But I could be wrong here.

When I've hooked the LCD to the other cores, everything looks in order. I have retried installing the OS and the MB6582 app on all cores. All application installations seem to work just fine from MIOS studio, and I've been able to upload the preset patches via the SysEx tool. Due to that, it makes no sense to me that MIDI on/off messages aren't being played. Oy.

I have also tried meditation, prayer, and am considering human sacrifice to the gods. However, before I go to that extreme, I thought I'd ask you here in the proper forum.

Thanks!

Edited by Blatboy, 06 July 2012 - 17:04.

[wicked1]

Play should make the other sids play.

I'm just guessing, but since your problem is so specific, I'd focus on the core itself. I wouldn't think you'd be able to upload the software or patches successfully if there were a flaky hardware issue between the core and midi in.
I'd pull all the cores out, take core0 and set it aside, put one of the other cores in the first position, reflash it as 0, reupload the sid app and see if you can get it going w/ just one core.

[Blatboy]

Thanks wicked1. I just tried, and even after taking out the cores, changing core 01's id to 00, and reinstalling the mb6582 app... it acted the same. I then reinstalled MIOS, and reinstalled the mb6582 again, and still no change.

I really appreciate the suggestion though!

Any other ideas? It seems like a unique issue. I still feel like I'm doing something really stupid here, but I've rechecked and it seems I'm transmitting on correct channels... I tried with both the MIOS keyboard and an external MIDI controller.

[Hawkeye]

Sorry for not answering earlier, i´ve thought a lot about it, and it is a quite unique problem, you are definitely not doing something stupid there...

You can upload firmwares, so bidrectional MIDI works, that implies that the MIDI connection up to the cores works fine.
SID pair #1 (rightmost core) works when using the play button, that implies that the first core can communicate with the first SID pair, and that the audio output circuit is ok.

As you said, you did check, that the current patch displays "Chn 1" (listening to notes sent on MIDI channel 1)?

A suggestion close to wicked1´s approach: can you pull cores 2-4 and (albeit that may be unnecessary) the sids from slots 3 to 8?
Maybe there is something going on on the CAN bus, that gives interference, but that is wild guessing... we may need TK. to help here

Bye,
Peter

[Blatboy]

Peter,

Of all people, you're the last that should feel the need to apologize, no matter how quick or slow you think you are replying. You've been such a help to me, even when I get excited and ask questions that are clearly already documented. I really wish you had one of those "buy me a beer" links...

I may go back and re-do my voltage checks today just to be sure everything checks out. From now on I'll be doing my further testing with one core and 2 SIDs. I'll tell you how it goes.

Edited by Blatboy, 02 July 2012 - 13:51.

[Blatboy]

Ok, I took out all the SIDs but two, and all the PIC Cores but one as per Hawkeye's suggestion. I went through the entire MIDI Troubleshooting guide... Loopbacks were fine (though I ended up throwing out an 80's era MIDI cable) and all the voltage checks seemed to check out just fine again.

That was another 2.5 hours spent troubleshooting and my brain is fried. Anyone have any further hunches?

Here's a video of me attempting to get sound out of it via MIDI control*, just in case there is something obvious I'm doing wrong here (other than trying to shoot video with my old cellphone, which is never a good idea):



Thanks!



*as I said in an earlier post, I'll get sound out of it when I hit the PLAY button, which oddly only works for the first SID core, and not the others, when they are plugged in. The above video was made with only 2 SIDS and 1 core connected...

Edited by Blatboy, 03 July 2012 - 13:58.

[TK.]

My try: you are using an Emagic MT4 interface which provides an internal MIDI router.
Could it be, that in your router setup the MIDI channel is changed to a different one?

The MIDImon app should show the incoming MIDI channel - is it Chn1?
Alternatively you could try to select different MIDI channels in the ensemble menu (press the first general purpose button in the main menu, go to INS and change the Chn value between 1..16 - this only has to be done for the first instrument INS1)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Blatboy]

Thanks so much for the reply Thorsten.

Alas, I've used an MT4, a Tascam US-122mkII (unsure if mkII is blacklisted as well, but it seemed to work like all the others), and MOTU Midi Timepiece. The MB-6582 reacted the same with all of them. I've tried on various channels as well using the ensemble menu.

The MIDImon, which I used with the MOTU, confirmed that it was receiving signals on the proper channel. This being said I'm happy to do another round of tests with the MIDImon, as I only used it with the MOTU and just did a basic confirmation that the note on/off commands were getting to the box and on the correct channel.

I'm wondering if the issue is somehow related to the PLAY button only working with SID 1?

Edited by Blatboy, 03 July 2012 - 21:06.

[Blatboy]

Ok. Another day of testing. One of my wires from the CS cables had come off the pin, so I figured I would do a full look over of my soldering work again. I fixed the connection and did a serious look see. Everything seemed ok once I fixed that connection.

I redid the MIDImon test. This was using the MT4, and though the first time I tried it, it gave me some garbled graphics:



But after reinstalling the MIDImon app, everything looked fine. When I was transmitting on channel one, it received on channel one just like its supposed to:



I'm posting this pic in case that number on the bottom means something that gives a clue:



Just for completeness I also did the pin test which gave me the following output, which seems AOK:

[98885.763] Pin 'A0 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98888.492] Pin 'A1 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98890.118] Pin 'A2 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98893.374] Pin 'A3 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98895.818] Pin 'A4 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98896.960] Pin 'RES#' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98901.498] Pin 'D0 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98903.184] Pin 'D1 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98904.150] Pin 'D2 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98907.838] Pin 'D3 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98909.182] Pin 'D4 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98910.110] Pin 'D5 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98911.238] Pin 'D6 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98912.206] Pin 'D7 ' of SID chip set to 5V, remaining digital pins set to 0V (exception: CS# set to 5V)
[98915.252] Pin 'CS#' of SID chip set to 0V, remaining digital pins set to 0V as well.

After all those tests, I reinstalled the MB6582 app just to see if it would magically start working!

It did not.

I'm still at a loss. I'm unsure how much more time I have today, but I think my next step will be to attempt to use the drum engine, which I haven't tried yet. If it works with one core installed, I'll reinstall the other cores and test further. With the odd way the PLAY button has been working, I'm curious if the box will be able to play self generating sequences… and if it will only work on SID 1. Maybe a clue will be revealed.

I'll get back to you when that test is done. I'm sure you're at the edges of your seats.

[TK.]

To give us an oversight:

- the SID connections are ok, because pressing PLAY starts a sound
- your MIDI interface sends the right MIDI events
- MIDImon shows that the PIC really receives the events.
- the correct MIDI channel has been selected in the ensemble INS menu

So, it's not a hardware issue, and since such a behaviour was never reported by somebody else before, also a software issue can be excluded.

Therefore I expect a configuration issue.

In an earlier posting I asked you to check the MIDI channel in the INS menu, but I haven't got feedback yet.
Aside from the MIDI channel, also a keyboard zone can be configured there. Could it be, that it's limited to a certain keyboard range?

It would also be interesting how your MIDIbox behaves if it boots without banksticks. Just pull them out of the sockets, reboot the MIDIbox and play some keys.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Blatboy]

Sorry, I didn't mention that I did change the channel... I tried it on channel 1,2, and 5. (of course adjusting within the MIOS keyboard as well.)

However.

I think I found the problem.

The split points. Now, why the box, when first installed, would choose to have both the upper and lower split points set to D#3 and the transpose set to 63 I have no idea. I saw the split points, but thought since they were the same and in the middle of the keyboard that it meant the whole keyboard was activated, but I guess it meant that NONE of the keyboard was activated. I just didn't notice the transpose value at all. However, none of those are good excuses I suppose.

I apologize for wasting your valuable time on me here.

TK, you've got a six pack coming your way for your trouble and my idiocy.

Hawkeye, you need a buy me a beer link.

So yes, it seems to be working now with SID 1!

I'm going back in my corner to deal with my wounded ego. Once I return, I'll test everything with the other cores, and get rocking.

Thanks so much for your time!

Walter

Edited by Blatboy, 04 July 2012 - 21:05.

[Hawkeye]

Hey, congrats, enjoy your fantastic new MIDIbox!
(would never have guessed that with the split points, hehe )

[Blatboy]

I swear, I must be cursed. The gods have decided I should never play this thing.

It reacts to MIDI notes now, but has decided to only intermittently play them... Every third or tenth note I play on the keyboard I'll get a sound, and more often than not, it sticks. At first I thought I just needed to fix the split points/transpositions on all instruments on all SIDS. No change. On top of that, cores sometimes go offline now. I'll notice a core or three will have a * on it. I select that core and it might say (No MBNet Response) or it might decide that the core is back online.

And, it's now having a hard time conversing with MIOS. I pulled the cores out to inspect them to be sure I didn't bend a pin or something. After I take out a core and put it back in, MIOS will communicate ok, but only the first time or so. After I play a note (or let it stick until I hit the PLAY button twice to stop it) it decides it doesn't want to talk to MIOS anymore. Over the time of my troubleshooting, I've pulled the cores so many times using a chip extraction tool, that they are pretty scratched up on the sides.

Therefore, I'm ordering another set of PIC chips. I'll take a break from this until they come in, and then I'll start fresh again.

[Hawkeye]

Hm,
PICs are quite resistant to all possible damages... You could test them one by one in the first PIC slot, if they work without problems there, it is not a PIC problem...

I would guess it may be a PSU problem - especially the original C64 PSUs are sometimes overloaded when a MB6582 is fully loaded...
You could measure the basic baseboard voltages when everything is powered up and when you are playing some notes (e.g. in bassline engine mode), to verify that...

Bye,
Peter

[Blatboy]

Ok.

Think I found part of the problem, now that I've come back with a more clear head. (The way I've been over-reacting to everything makes it clear that my choice to be a musician was much better for the world than if I had pursued my other dream of being an airline pilot... lives have been saved due to that choice, I'm sure...)

My SPV values were all maxed out. Once I turned that off, I was finally able to play it. I thought it might be something like that, but I had thought it was more about MIDI channels.

I now only have two cores installed and 4 SIDs

one of the sids I pulled had some bent pins, so that must have been the cause of the weird communication issues?

In my haste yesterday, I went ahead and ordered 4 more PIC chips. Oh well. Guess I have a head start on my next project, whatever that may be!

I'm thinking I may make a document for the WIKI explaining what some of these perimeters should be set to initially to get sound. While yes, all the information is there in the manual, it's often difficult for a newbie to figure out some of these things when you're both learning a new operating system and trying to troubleshoot a build. Or maybe I'm just not as sharp as most the other tools in this shed. (There's some serious talent around here, so I don't feel too bad saying that.) Either case, I've done some very minor editing to some of the wiki, and perhaps if I contributed some more it would be a way to give back to the MIDIbox community.

thanks,

w

Edited by Blatboy, 06 July 2012 - 16:23.