Faster etching.

[uclaros]

I just used yestrday a hair dryer to blow on the etchant.

It keeps the water warm and it also shakes it.

The proccess was a lot faster this way!

Uclaros

[pilo]

hehe ;)

I test a loooooot of way to etche faster!! and some like this too!!

[arumblack]

what are you using to etch? i have been using ferric chloride, but i read somewhere that there is something faster, but don't remember what the chemical name (or anyname) for it was? any idea's?

[Steven_C]

I have used ammonium persulfate (persulphate?) It seems to work better and quicker than Ferric Chloride, but is a little more difficult to use, and requires an exact heat range to work. (adding more hot water, until it you see it start to etch) Best to use a thermometer, (I think it was 75 degrees C, but I could be wrong) but don't use the thermometer for anything else afterwards (avoid contamination)

Use any of these products with extreme caution! Wear goggles, and protective clothing!

[arumblack]

yes , that was the stuff, and there was some sort of heater tank they were selling for it too.

thank you.

[pay_c]

The absolute fastest way of etching is using HCl acid plus a little H2O2. Though its a reaaally dangerous way to edge (HCl !) it´s dammit fast. They use that stuff in professional edging facilities.

[pilo]

The absolute fastest way of etching is using HCl acid plus a little H2O2. Though its a reaaally dangerous way to edge (HCl !) it´s dammit fast. They use that stuff in professional edging facilities.

use that if you want to die fast only ;) I test it, you etch in less than 10s... hehe but I never get good result : it etch so fast that it etch the track!!!! (and also you... hehe)

really, don't use it! it's really dangerous!! (like smoking a hundred cigarettes at the same time!)

[Guest Zzzz...]

To Steven...

The normal temperature  I use for the persulphate acid is fluctuating, but in the best way to be used form 40 - 60 degrees.

Don't go that high....!!

To me it's not fast....put stirring with PCB does one trick...adding enough in relation to the water is the second (100g to 1 liter)

And as every liquid acid this stuff is dangerous but not so dangerous as the other two options mentioned. With Ferric chloride you could burn/blow holes into your sink....or maybe make a nice lookin frontpanel...(although that's alumiunium)...

The otherone i am not gonna test...because it can die you and your hair also with it...(and not the HCL is nasty.....the peroxide is really hell!!)...

grtz  

Erik

[pay_c]

Just to get the right point: I´m also getting my hands faaaaar away from that HCl stuff. Just wanted to mention this as the fastest way of etching. If you use this technique you must also have a wide opened window (Hydrogen comes out of there! So dont smoke! :) ).

For the other stuff always wear protective stuff (I now have some white points on my jeans cause I have not - now thats my etching jeans ;) ). -ALWAYS- You dont want to get that stuff in your eyes.

[Nomical]

Avoid the HCL and peroxide method. Although Hydrogenperoxide isn't the most dangerous peroxide, you should defenitley be very carefull with it. Peroxides CAN cause explosions under some conditions, i don't remember if hydrogenperoxide can cause it. Just to be safe, don't use either of them.

[Nomical]

Ferric Chloride FeCl2:

POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS

Eye: Causes eye burns.

     

Skin: Causes skin burns.

     

Ingestion: Harmful if swallowed. Causes gastrointestinal tract burns.

     

Inhalation: Causes chemical burns to the respiratory tract.

Chemical Stability: Stable.

     

Conditions to Avoid: Incompatible materials, dust generation, excess heat, exposure to moist air or water.

     

Incompatibilities with Other Materials: Allyl chloride, strong oxidizing agents, sodium, potassium, alkali metals, ethylene oxide.

     

Hazardous Decomposition Products: Hydrogen chloride, oxides of iron.

[Nomical]

Potassiumpersulfate:

POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS

Eye: May cause severe eye irritation. May cause conjunctivitis. May cause permanent corneal opacification.

     

Skin: May cause skin sensitization, an allergic reaction, which becomes evident upon re-exposure to this material. May cause severe irritation and possible burns.

     

Ingestion: May cause burns to the gastrointestinal tract. May be harmful if swallowed. May cause nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, possibly with blood.

     

Inhalation: Dust is irritating to the respiratory tract. May cause asthmatic attacks due to allergic sensitization of the respiratory tract. May cause acute pulmonary edema, asphyxia, chemical pneumonitis, and upper airway obstruction caused by edema.

     

Chronic: Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause sensitization dermatitis and possible destruction and/or ulceration. Repeated exposure may cause allergic respiratory reaction (asthma).

Handling: Wash thoroughly after handling. Remove contaminated clothing and wash before reuse. Use with adequate ventilation. Minimize dust generation and accumulation. Avoid contact with clothing and other combustible materials. Do not get on skin or in eyes. Avoid ingestion and inhalation.

     

Storage: Keep away from heat, sparks, and flame. Do not store near combustible materials. Store in a cool, dry place. Keep containers tightly closed.

Chemical Stability: Stable under normal temperatures and pressures.

     

Conditions to Avoid: Incompatible materials, ignition sources, dust generation, combustible materials, reducing agents.

     

Incompatibilities with Other Materials: Reducing agents.

     

Hazardous Decomposition Products: Oxygen, oxides of potassium, sulfur oxides (SOx), including sulfur oxide and sulfur dioxide.

[Nomical]

Hydrogenperoxide H2O2:

POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS

Eye: Contact with liquid is corrosive to the eyes and causes severe burns. Contact with the eyes may cause corneal damage.

     

Skin: Causes redness and pain. Causes severe skin irritation and possible burns. May cause discoloration, erythema (redness), swelling, and the formation of papules and vesicles (blisters).

     

Ingestion: Causes gastrointestinal irritation with nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Causes gastrointestinal tract burns. May cause vascular collapse and damage. May cause damage to the red blood cells.

     

Inhalation: Causes chemical burns to the respiratory tract. May cause ulceration of nasal tissue, insomnia, nervous tremors with numb extremities, chemical pneumonia, unconsciousness, and death.

     

Chronic: Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause dermatitis. Repeated contact may cause corneal damage.

Chemical Stability: Decomposes slowly to release oxygen.

     

Conditions to Avoid: Mechanical shock, incompatible materials, light, ignition sources, exposure to air, excess heat, combustible materials.

     

Incompatibilities with Other Materials: Metals, strong oxidizing agents, reducing agents, acetic acid, acetic anhydride, alcohols, ammonia, brass, bronze, copper, copper alloys, finely powdered metals, galvanized iron, hydrazine, iron, lead oxide, magnesium, nitric acid, sodium carbonate, zinc, potassium, potassium permanganate, sodium, cyanides (e.g. potassium cyanide, sodium cyanide), ethers (e.g. dioxane, furfuran, tetrahydrofuran (THF)), sulfides (inorganic, e.g. ferric sulfide, lead sulfide, sodium sulfide), urea, chlorosulfonic acid, lead dioxide, alkalies, lead, acetone, nitrogen compounds, triethylamine, lime water, silver, iron salts, mercuric oxide, nickel, palladium, organic matter, chromium, manganese, charcoal, glycerol, cellulose, sodium borate, aniline, platinum.

     

Hazardous Decomposition Products: Oxygen, hydrogen gas.

Handling: Wash thoroughly after handling. Remove contaminated clothing and wash before reuse. Use only in a well-ventilated area. Contents may develop pressure upon prolonged storage. Do not get in eyes, on skin, or on clothing. Keep container tightly closed. Avoid contact with clothing and other combustible materials. Do not ingest or inhale.

Store protected from light. Use only in a chemical fume hood. This product may be under pressure; cool before opening. Discard contaminated shoes. Unused chemicals should not be returned to the container.

     

Storage: Keep away from heat, sparks, and flame. Do not store near combustible materials. Do not store in direct sunlight. Store in a tightly closed container. Store in a dry area. Keep refrigerated.

(Store below 4°C/39°F.)

[Nomical]

Hydorchloric acid HCl:

POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS

Eye: May cause irreversible eye injury. Vapor or mist may cause irritation and severe burns. Contact with liquid is corrosive to the eyes and causes severe burns. May cause painful sensitization to light.

     

Skin: May cause skin sensitization, an allergic reaction, which becomes evident upon re-exposure to this material. Contact with liquid is corrosive and causes severe burns and ulceration.

     

Ingestion: May cause circulatory system failure. Causes severe digestive tract burns with abdominal pain, vomiting, and possible death. May cause corrosion and permanent tissue destruction of the esophagus and digestive tract.

     

Inhalation: May cause severe irritation of the respiratory tract with sore throat, coughing, shortness of breath and delayed lung edema. Causes chemical burns to the respiratory tract. Exposure to the mist and vapor may erode exposed teeth. Causes corrosive action on the mucous membranes.

     

Chronic: Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause dermatitis. Repeated exposure may cause erosion of teeth.

Chemical Stability: Stable under normal temperatures and pressures.

     

Conditions to Avoid: Mechanical shock, incompatible materials, excess heat, exposure to moist air or water.

     

Incompatibilities with Other Materials: Metals, strong oxidizing agents, bases, acetic anhydride, alkali metals, aluminum, amines, copper, copper alloys, fluorine, sodium hydroxide, steel, sulfuric acid, vinyl acetate, potassium permanganate, cesium acetylene carbide, lithium silicide, rubidium acetylene carbide, rubidium carbide, sodium, aldehydes (e.g.

acetaldehyde, acrolein, chloral hydrate, formaldehyde), caustics (e.g. ammonia, ammonium hydroxide, calcium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, sodium hydroxide), sulfides (inorganic, e.g. ferric sulfide, lead sulfide, sodium sulfide), epoxides (e.g. butyl glycidyl ether), water reactive substances (e.g. acetic anyhdride, alkyl aluminum chloride, calcium carbide, ethyl dichlorosilane), chlorosulfonic acid, oleum, methyl vinyl ether, perchloric acid, calcium phosphide, acetates, cesium carbide, carbides.

     

Hazardous Decomposition Products: Hydrogen chloride, chlorine, hydrogen gas.

Handling: Use only in a well-ventilated area. Contents may develop pressure upon prolonged storage. Do not breathe dust, vapor, mist, or gas. Do not get in eyes, on skin, or on clothing. Keep container tightly closed. Do not ingest or inhale. Use only in a chemical fume hood.

Use caution when opening. Keep from contact with moist air and steam.

     

Storage: Do not store in direct sunlight. Store in a tightly closed container. Store in a cool, dry, well-ventilated area away from incompatible substances. Corrosives area. Do not store in metal containers.

[Nomical]

The information above is also dependent of the concentration and the composition of any possible solution of the chemical.

For info on a lot of chemicals check here. Fill in the the chemical name in the (quick)search box and look at the MSDS of that chemical. You'll see different warnings for different concentrations and solutions of the same chemical.

[intosite]

Haven't tried this before, i saw some ferric chloride granules at my local store.

Just checking if i mixed them up in a plastic basin using a plastic stirer, is it ok? Or should i use something else?

Also how long does it take on average?

Cheers

[arumblack]

as far as i understand, Plastic is good, NEVER Metal. it usually took 20-40 minutes for my boards to etch, but i didn't really heat the stuff up too well(ran some hot water over the bottle for a few minutes but that was all).

[pay_c]

I'm about to design some veeery simple etching bath.

Specs it will be about:

200 ml etching fluid capable

2x 160x100mmxmm boards at once (200 ml fluid can take up to about 4 160x100)

bubble-like bath

10-20W heating (will that be enough? dont think so...)

It will be made out of plexiglas & some other materials. As I see it it will be very cheap (*very* roughly about 20-40 Euros for buying all stuff (if you dont have some already) and 10-20 for theheating power supply (if you're keen you can save that by plugging it into the 220V AC of your home - I dont recommend that  ;) ).

I hope that thing will function...

If there's interest I'll post some pics to the portal or so.

[gillesdeshays]

for me , the best way (but not the fastest) for the DIYer to etch is the ferric chloride @  right T° and air pump + " bobble maker" ...

I try HCL and peroxide.........

NEVER DO THAT @ HOME !!!!

Too dangerous !