defred Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Hi there all, I finished my mb64, uploaded application, everything fine, seems to send correctly controlers or notes, BUT :-/ many random events were displayed by midi-ox ! the funny stuff is that when tapping on the box it triggered them ???So I figured it may be a grounding problem, so checked everything that needed to be grounded, and add a ground connection on the box (metallic one, my first elctronic natural initiative ;) is that allright ?). Still random stuff. One pot seems not to work, so I re-checked all my solder (these box end up in an electric spider-web no ?), nothing new, and this pot don't work.I just started the investigation, so what are the known sources of that problem ? I thought it could definitly not be a software issue. Do soldering issue are known for this ? The question is : can it be anywhere ? So knowing that I'll concentrate on specific point.Thanks to everyone experienced the problem for hints !It kicks building a Mbox !!!!!defred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Hi there all, I finished my mb64, uploaded application, everything fine, seems to send correctly controlers or notes, BUT :-/ many random events were displayed by midi-ox ! the funny stuff is that when tapping on the box it triggered them ???So I figured it may be a grounding problem, so checked everything that needed to be grounded, and add a ground connection on the box (metallic one, my first elctronic natural initiative ;) is that allright ?). Still random stuff. One pot seems not to work, so I re-checked all my solder (these box end up in an electric spider-web no ?), nothing new, and this pot don't work.I just started the investigation, so what are the known sources of that problem ? I thought it could definitly not be a software issue. Do soldering issue are known for this ? The question is : can it be anywhere ? So knowing that I'll concentrate on specific point.Thanks to everyone experienced the problem for hints !It kicks building a Mbox !!!!!defred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 An additional question :When connecting the core alone (no AIN, no DIN connected to it) there should be no MIDI message from the box right ?Is there a special problem of having the power plug near the midi plugs ?still checking... thanks all.defrd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 An additional question :When connecting the core alone (no AIN, no DIN connected to it) there should be no MIDI message from the box right ?Is there a special problem of having the power plug near the midi plugs ?still checking... thanks all.defrd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LO Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 HiEven with no Ains or Dins connected you still need to ground the analog pins of the core.Try doing this and see if your prob persists.CheerLO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LO Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 HiEven with no Ains or Dins connected you still need to ground the analog pins of the core.Try doing this and see if your prob persists.CheerLO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Well, fixed some bad soldering, try the core alone with everything needed grounded, no weird data, core+DIN no problems, core+AIN bad. So I focused on the AIN and re-done the whole power wiring of the pot with more accurate connexions. Problem is worst ! it really looks like a ground problem but no way to get rid of it.any idea welcome !defred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Well, fixed some bad soldering, try the core alone with everything needed grounded, no weird data, core+DIN no problems, core+AIN bad. So I focused on the AIN and re-done the whole power wiring of the pot with more accurate connexions. Problem is worst ! it really looks like a ground problem but no way to get rid of it.any idea welcome !defred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pay_c Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Do you have a metal frontplate?If yes, ground it (seperately from the box!). Metal Frontplates are more or less antennas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pay_c Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Do you have a metal frontplate?If yes, ground it (seperately from the box!). Metal Frontplates are more or less antennas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Tell us about your power supply...... ;)SmashTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Tell us about your power supply...... ;)SmashTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 So my case is whole metal and I've already grounded it. My powersupply is a wall adapter set to 9V, the voltages I read on the Core test are all right 5V.Measured tension on AIN power pins is 4,5V is that enough ?It looks like its the AIN module that is faulty, I'm gonna check it with care today, but it all looks ok.For info my problem changed from random timed events, to continuous random controller flow. I have read the whole troubleshooting section of the forum with  no luck, but it looks like it's often soldering issues, so I'll check that.By the way the multiplexer I have are philipps HEF4051BP is there a special issue on this ? Is there a way to test them in case I fried one ?Can the problem still be on the Core even if when I don't connect the AIN (and ground what needed to) there's no probs ?defred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 So my case is whole metal and I've already grounded it. My powersupply is a wall adapter set to 9V, the voltages I read on the Core test are all right 5V.Measured tension on AIN power pins is 4,5V is that enough ?It looks like its the AIN module that is faulty, I'm gonna check it with care today, but it all looks ok.For info my problem changed from random timed events, to continuous random controller flow. I have read the whole troubleshooting section of the forum with  no luck, but it looks like it's often soldering issues, so I'll check that.By the way the multiplexer I have are philipps HEF4051BP is there a special issue on this ? Is there a way to test them in case I fried one ?Can the problem still be on the Core even if when I don't connect the AIN (and ground what needed to) there's no probs ?defred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 AAAAAARRRRRRRghhhhhnew step, I found that when AIN and Core are connected but not the pots powersuply I can stop the data flow with my finger touching the case ! If the pots power supply is connected, no way to stop the data flow.If its not a ground problem I'll be damn, so I noticed that my power plug on the metal case, is made of metal also, could it be bad for grounding respect because one end of the power plug is in contact with the case ?Everything look real fine on the two boards (will not guarantee but checked it very well).Do you have a metal frontplate? If yes, ground it (seperately from the box!). What do you mean seperately from the box ? wiring my front plate with what ?thanks to anyone finally get me on the lead !!!defred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 AAAAAARRRRRRRghhhhhnew step, I found that when AIN and Core are connected but not the pots powersuply I can stop the data flow with my finger touching the case ! If the pots power supply is connected, no way to stop the data flow.If its not a ground problem I'll be damn, so I noticed that my power plug on the metal case, is made of metal also, could it be bad for grounding respect because one end of the power plug is in contact with the case ?Everything look real fine on the two boards (will not guarantee but checked it very well).Do you have a metal frontplate? If yes, ground it (seperately from the box!). What do you mean seperately from the box ? wiring my front plate with what ?thanks to anyone finally get me on the lead !!!defred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pay_c Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 If its not a ground problem I'll be damn, so I noticed that my power plug on the metal case, is made of metal also, could it be bad for grounding respect because one end of the power plug is in contact with the case ?defredYepp, thats some point...you go through those diodes (the bridge recitifer) and so loose 0,7V. That *could* be a prob. Just get the power plug out of there once and try it with the power plug hanging in the air.What I mean by grounding the frontplate seperately is just that you put an additional grounding cable to the frontplate.Before you do that you could also measure the resistance and the voltage between the frontplate and the ground of your core (if its a resitance below ~0,5 Ohm and voltage about 0V its all OK already).*pressingthumbs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pay_c Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 If its not a ground problem I'll be damn, so I noticed that my power plug on the metal case, is made of metal also, could it be bad for grounding respect because one end of the power plug is in contact with the case ?defredYepp, thats some point...you go through those diodes (the bridge recitifer) and so loose 0,7V. That *could* be a prob. Just get the power plug out of there once and try it with the power plug hanging in the air.What I mean by grounding the frontplate seperately is just that you put an additional grounding cable to the frontplate.Before you do that you could also measure the resistance and the voltage between the frontplate and the ground of your core (if its a resitance below ~0,5 Ohm and voltage about 0V its all OK already).*pressingthumbs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Just get the power plug out of there once and try it with the power plug hanging in the air.MAde the "air-power supply" test already, same problem. Checking the case grounding is ok, no tension, 0 ohm resistance. Grrr....still no luck to see it work... i'll re check the whole stuff, it's third day of investigation (I'm like 24 hours on it)Anyway thanks you all for answers and leads.defred, not yet desperate :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Just get the power plug out of there once and try it with the power plug hanging in the air.MAde the "air-power supply" test already, same problem. Checking the case grounding is ok, no tension, 0 ohm resistance. Grrr....still no luck to see it work... i'll re check the whole stuff, it's third day of investigation (I'm like 24 hours on it)Anyway thanks you all for answers and leads.defred, not yet desperate :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 These problems can be the most frustrating, when things almost work!I live about 7 blocks from one of the most powerful AM radio stations in the world, it's signal saturates my phone line, my cable internet connection, and my AC power (I know of people hearing the broadcast on their central heater, probably causing the coils in the contactors to resonate like a speaker) so everything I build or work on has to be able to shake almost any RFI. : ) (It's so bad that your playstation or any other CD player wont work when placed on the floor, probably a result of a harmonic of their noise corrupting true earth ground.)Anyway, back on topic, I have found that with all parts loaded on a core (so that it can run from AC or DC) that feeding a core with 9VAC (from the usual wall-pack transformer) will result in much more stable operation than feeding the core DC at it's input. The power section runs much cooler, and there is more available to the external modules than with a DC input.So it's something to try at least, but take care to isolate both lines of AC coming in, otherwise your box could act worse, or become a return path for something else that has the case on the other leg of power!9VAC wall power supplies are the most common found on consumer stuff in the US, If you have more than a couple of things that use a wall pack odds are you have one. ;)Good luck, and let us know!SmashTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 These problems can be the most frustrating, when things almost work!I live about 7 blocks from one of the most powerful AM radio stations in the world, it's signal saturates my phone line, my cable internet connection, and my AC power (I know of people hearing the broadcast on their central heater, probably causing the coils in the contactors to resonate like a speaker) so everything I build or work on has to be able to shake almost any RFI. : ) (It's so bad that your playstation or any other CD player wont work when placed on the floor, probably a result of a harmonic of their noise corrupting true earth ground.)Anyway, back on topic, I have found that with all parts loaded on a core (so that it can run from AC or DC) that feeding a core with 9VAC (from the usual wall-pack transformer) will result in much more stable operation than feeding the core DC at it's input. The power section runs much cooler, and there is more available to the external modules than with a DC input.So it's something to try at least, but take care to isolate both lines of AC coming in, otherwise your box could act worse, or become a return path for something else that has the case on the other leg of power!9VAC wall power supplies are the most common found on consumer stuff in the US, If you have more than a couple of things that use a wall pack odds are you have one. ;)Good luck, and let us know!SmashTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Okay thanks for the advice, I don't know how hard it is to find these AC adapters here in France (yeah froggie boy I am), but in case the rest of the research failed I'll try that (my core is fully stuffed so I can try, only have to change the case powerplug).I keep fighting ...defrd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defred Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Okay thanks for the advice, I don't know how hard it is to find these AC adapters here in France (yeah froggie boy I am), but in case the rest of the research failed I'll try that (my core is fully stuffed so I can try, only have to change the case powerplug).I keep fighting ...defrd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilo Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 try a transformer :) (I never seen AC power here...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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