d2k Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 Hey all and happy 2003!I've got a load of old logitech serial mouse in the hope to make encoders from. As I understand the internal electronics of the mouse are not used and only the LED and optical detector are needed....The LED has 3 pins (looks like 2 are connected to gnd on the board I think) and the optical detector has 4 pins - see attached pic, I hope u can see the routing of the parts on the board as to make sense of it...So what pins of the optical detector do I connect to the DIN module?Best...Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 The green and the light-blue pin is connected with the IC, so I think that these are the signals which have to be connected to the DIN module.The red and blue are for the power supply. Here I'm not sure if a special voltage level is required. However, just plug the mouse into the RS232 or PS/2 socket of your PC and measure the voltage between these two pins.Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted January 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 I measured 4.36/7 V between these 2 pins...So - and i'm only guessing here ;) that the +5 provided from the core would be fine ???If thats correct then great...:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 yes, the +5V should be enough. Be carefull with the voltages, a too high level can kill the components! The easiest and most secure way to setup the connections is the following: at first let the LED sender and receiver attached, connect the RS232 cable with your PC. Connect the ground of the mouse (RS232 pin #5) with Vss of the DIN module, and the green and light-blue pin of the receiver via two resistors (*) to the DIN inputs. Now the MB16E firmware should regognize movements of the mouse and send out MIDI events. Thereafter measure the voltage levels of the sender and receiver during operation - they could be different now. If they are still about 5V or higher, the components can be supplied with Vdd of the DIN module without additional measures. If they are lower, you probably need series resistors - measure the current which is going through the components and calculate the required resistances with following formula: R = (5V-V_measured) / I_measured; Example: R = (5V - 2V) / 15mA = 200Take the next higher available resistor from the E12 table (100, 220, 330, 470, ...): 220 OhmMore details can be found in any book about electronics (-> ohms law)Best Regards, Thorsten.(*) the resistors protect the 74HC595 from too high currents between the two voltage domains (RS232/MIDIbox). Values between 100 - 1k are ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted January 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 Great, thanks again T - cleared up things nice, tho i'll prolly have a few more q's when it comes to testing (still gotta get parts and make the modules)...However, these encoders are coming on nice ;) i've reused most of the mouse and created an endless pot with an intergrated switch (the mouse switch) housed with a half cut of the rubber cover from the ball, so it acts like a pushswitch - looks nifty, weather it works or not is another thing ;). I'll get some pics up soon...cheers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogic Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 d2k, please post final report when you're done with modifications. I am also very interested in this type of hacks, but know shit about electronics.thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted January 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 I was thinking of doing a walkthrough - but it'd take a while, plus u'd have to get the same type of logitech mice I used - tho I'm sure a general guide would be a good idea as most old serial mice have similar asthetics...In the meantime, here are a few pics of one of the encoders (i made 8 in total). The mouse switch has been reused and is placed in the rubber housing (used the old mouse ball ;) ). It works really well so far, but as stated there's still a lot to do ;)....The encoder wheels I made (not pictured) have 36 spikes and are made from black CD jewel cases...I was also thinking of intergrating an LED in the button too (it lights up the rubber cap real nice when lighted from beneath), but the LED rings will be enuff I think ;)All was dun with a dremel with various bits used...Cheers...Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted January 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 i should also say that everything is 'ex-mouse' - bar the pink wire...;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey_Sadler Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 WOW!!! What a nice looking encoder. Great info on how to make and connect it tool I'll have to give this one a try.Don't forget to look at http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade.htm and check under controls for a nice program to print encoder wheel patterns. Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogic Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 I must also say : WOW!This looks fantastic! d2k, when you have time, please make that walkthrough, I also have an Logitech R.I.P. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Hello d2k,Look at this selfmade encoder from Stephan Hans. He called spinner but it looks like a jog wheel with a selfmade encoder.http://home.t-online.de/home/stephan.hans/tricks.htm#SPINNER%20for%20superduperarcadeconsole*sorry for my bad englishJack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted January 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Cheers ppl...Once i get the boards sorted for the LED and detector pins - i'll get busy with a walkthrough ;)Right now, building my first MB is the priority...Peace...D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted March 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 The easiest and most secure way to setup the connections is the following: at first let the LED sender and receiver attached, connect the RS232 cable with your PC. Connect the ground of the mouse (RS232 pin #5) with Vss of the DIN module, and the green and light-blue pin of the receiver via two resistors (*) to the DIN inputs. Now the MB16E firmware should regognize movements of the mouse and send out MIDI events. Done that but just connected the green and light blue pin of the rcvr straight to the DIN module which had the 10K resistors there already. Moved the mouse and low and behold there was MIDI!! When i moved the mouse left i got 'B0 13 3F' msgs and when moved right i got 'B0 13 41' msgs (tho a B0 13 42/3 popped up occasionally too)I measured the V of the Receiver (if thats the one with 4 pins - measured the red and blue pins in the pic) and it kept around the 4.+ mark. The other LED (sender? the 1 with 3 pins in the pic) i didnt seem to get any measurements from.. ???So, is it working then? I'm getting midi output it seems so thats a start - whether or not it's the right output is another thing...;pThese diy encoders have took a lot to make tho and i'd really like to use them so what to do next? How is the 3 pin LED connected? does that go to the dout module - how would that effect things when i'm configuring a full featured LC box?questions, questions, questions...;pBest...Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted March 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 ;D ;D ;DBingo!, burnt the 16E just for fun and the hack works - what a result!!So, no additional resistors required then by the looks of it. But i'm still confused as as where to put the LED (3pin one in pic)....BestA happy Dan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted March 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 saw this in another post:Note that optical encoders contain a LED which has to be powered - just take a 470 Ohm resistor in serial to the LED and connect it with Vss/Vdd (+5V) of the Core or DIN module.Thats that covered then ;) Logic v-pots here we come ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monokinetic Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 wow so it works then!!I have looked at your old posts a few times and have been asking around for old mouse donations (everyone wants an optical mouse so I might have 32 encoders!!!!)........Keep us posted (no pun intended) about how its working because one of my obsessions is recycling old teknology for fun projects like this ;-)D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey_Sadler Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 Hi All,On another group we are talking about using the optical sensor from a optical mouse to measure the speed of a moving roll of paper. We found the sensor at http://www.semiconductor.agilent.com and do a quick search on HDNS-2000. They have data sheets, application notes etc. available for download. This may eliminate the need to have an encoder wheel with a pattern of "spokes", just a moving wheel under the sensor. Just another idea for the group.Later,Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted March 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 Hey Mickey...Does that sensor u talk off still require an LED receiver too? Or is it just a disc (without spokes) and the sensor thats needed?BestDan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey_Sadler Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Hi Dan,Actually we are using a cheap optical mouse. The HDNS-2000 is the chip used in these and would have to have the 4 parts - the sensor chip, the led, the lense with light pipe, and the led clip. I was trying to point to the datasheet for the chip itself. We are planning on mounting the mouse on the bed of our scanner and read the paper movement into our scanning software. The same thing could be done by mounting a optical mouse and using a moving disk or roller or anything that would move so the mouse could detect it without need for a spoked encoder wheel. It's at least something to think about. (We are planning on scanning piano rolls [band/fair organ, craank organ, etc rolls and books] and saving the data to archive rolls so they are not lost. Lots of old rolls have only one copy to be found! Also, part of the project will convert the data to MIDI - and that is the part the MBHP will play for me. See http://www.iammp.org for more info and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rollscanners/ for the discussoin archive. Also, if you are interested in Mechanical Music, check http://mmd.foxtail.com for the Mechanical Music Digest. They have some discussions of MIDI stuff from time to time.Later,Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest psytron Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 i also have a mouse i wish to butcher :)a cheep as chips "techwork"it also has a wheel for the center button.i will be using this for my menu sys (if i get one :))this encoder uses 5v so i believe it is good for use (it is only mechanical so any voltage would be good)my question is with the wheels and associated bits (led and ir reciever??)the led has 2 legs so no prob therethe other bit has 3 legs with the middle a common positive and the outer being negative.am i going to need to build a circut to impliment the little thing or no just hook up as d2k has ??(just got my first mb working mmmmmm sweet)(with a lot of help from tk tha champ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reincarnate Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 You guys got me thinking....still, the time of action will be coming in a couple of days with boards aplenty from Mike.I've been looking at the joystick problem - that they are expensive and how to come up with something cheaper. I like the idea of 2 axis control and my first box is going to contain 2 joysticks from an old radio control unit.Now to the point. I've got an old MS Mouse here with the cover off, and I think it will stand being turned upsidedown and being used as a tracker ball. It seems to move smoothly with it's weight on the rollers.By drilling into the ball and screwing a shaft into it you have a joystick. Now I know it won't be an analogue type, it will essentially be a two-axis encoder.So what? Well, if another roller and led pair are used, it can be mounted at 90 degrees to the other two. So by rotating the joystick shaft you'll get a endless 36 tick or so encoder. (i.e. x and y axis as per standard mouse setup, then another one on a z axis).So you'll have a 1 handed 3 dimenional encoder control :DI've not started my Midibox yet, so the only thing I'm not sure of is how encoder use will map on to my synths. But I'm really interested to give it a go. Will post some details when I do.To allow maximum joystick range, half of the mouse ball will need to be exposed, which means it can pop out. I was thinking of mounting a magnet underneath, just to give it a bit more "stick" if the midibox is moved. Is this a bad idea for any of the electronics? d2k, was the stuff inside your mouse ball steel? This one feels really heavy, but I can't find a magnet anywhere (and I'm not going to start taking apart my monitors ;)Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted June 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Hey steve...Ye, it was metal inside - dont know what, but i imagin steel...BTW: i gave up on these encoders - too much time, hassle and i didnt have enough room in my LC box to include them - besides, the deal Ian got for those encoders was too good to miss :)Best of luck tho...Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nomadicWhale Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 anyone have the picture that are missing from this thread?thanksnW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming_Rabbit Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Hey d2kThe pics are not available anymore in this thread. Is this a mistake or did you take em off out of purpose? Would it be possible, that you make 'em available again, since I'm very interresed to learn from your work?Thanks and greetsRoger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted September 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Heyye soz, pics got dashed - never continued with this project as (..i remember - was a while bak) I couldnt get it workin when I desolderd the components from the mouse and made up new brds - got messy and I was even more of an amature then ;p...neways it was lotta work and whats the point of that when u can get encoders for so cheap! chek smashs' site - he's knockin em out for a nugget!D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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