Bended MIDIbox SID engine

[Afro88]

A new feature of the MBSID is a low-cost AOUT driver. The upcoming AOUT_LC module mainly consist of 2 * 74HC595, 36 * 10k resistors and one LM324. The part costs of this "selfbuilt" DAC are around 4 EUR - a nice starting point for everybody who wants to control external analog filters :)

Would it be difficult to create some kind of midi thru mode in software where midi notes/gates can be routed to the AOUT_LC module to control CV synths? This would be great! I was thinking about building the MIDI/CV converter but it was too expensive - if this is only 4 EUR and could work as a MIDI/CV converter that would be unbelievable!

P.P.S.: maybe I should mention here that Matze (the creator of the acidcode.de box) gave me a lot of useful hints about the TB303 behaviour and the schematics :-)

Please, tell us more! :D

[srmaietta]

So is the AOUT already in the mbSID code?  Or will we need this upcoming AOUT-LC board for something?(besides making a neater job than by laying it out on protoboard.)    Whats the resolution?

It just gets better and better!!

TK thanks again for sharing this hobby of yours with us!

~Steve

[cheater]

Can't wait till I get my hands on it. DJs in my city will go crazy.

Something I can't figure out on my own... will it be able to sync the WT sequencer to BPM, and perhaps to fractional BPM values? (would be great for DJ performance)

[TK.]

Would it be difficult to create some kind of midi thru mode in software where midi notes/gates can be routed to the AOUT_LC module to control CV synths? This would be great! I was thinking about building the MIDI/CV converter but it was too expensive - if this is only 4 EUR and could work as a MIDI/CV converter that would be unbelievable!

For one of future releases I'm planning an AOUT mapping feature which allows you to map these analog outputs to internal/external CC/Note events (so: 512 possibilities!). So, it's not only possible to control the outputs from internal stuff like envelopes/LFOs/etc... or static parameters, but also from the wavetable sequencer or --- of course (this is the easiest thing) from external notes or CC

The implementation will be similar to MIDIbox FM, for myself it's low priority since it can already be changed in the source code (so, the functionality is already available for somebody who knows the internals). I collect all the requirements before starting with this part, so that I don't miss anything which could "hurt" in the future (incompatibility issues)

Please, tell us more!

I will provide a very detailed description once I find the time.

To give you an impression: last weekend I overworked the MBHP_MF page (http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp_mf.html), it took me several weeks until I reached the right mood for writing down all this stuff. A similar "delay" can be expected for the TB303 mode description

So is the AOUT already in the mbSID code?  Or will we need this upcoming AOUT-LC board for something?(besides making a neater job than by laying it out on protoboard.)   

        ;; 0: no AOUT module
        ;; 1: enable access to the AOUT module via Port J6
        ;; 2: enable access to the AOUT_LC module via Port J6
#define ENABLE_AOUT 2
[/code]

 Whats the resolution?

[code]
;; --------------------------------------------------------------------------
;;  FUNCTION: SID_AOUT_LC_Load2SR
;;  DESCRIPTION: This function loads a 16bit value into the shift register
;;  IN:   o low byte of SR value in TMP1
;;        o high byte of SR value in TMP2
;;  OUT:  -
;;  USES: TMP[12345]
;; --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something I can't figure out on my own... will it be able to sync the WT sequencer to BPM, and perhaps to fractional BPM values?

        BIFCLR  SID_SE_OPTION, SE_OPTION_TB303, BANKED, rgoto SID_WT_Branch_Play_NotTB303
SID_WT_Branch_Play_TB303
        ;; in TB303 mode:
        ;; increment tick counter, reset if counter >= 6
        incf    SID_WT_303_TICK_CTR, F, BANKED
        movlw   0x6
        cpfslt  SID_WT_303_TICK_CTR, BANKED
        clrf    SID_WT_303_TICK_CTR, BANKED

        ;; play note when counter-1 == 0
        decf    SID_WT_303_TICK_CTR, W, BANKED
        bz      SID_WT_Branch_Play_TB303Note
        ;; release gate when counter-1 == 3
        decf    SID_WT_303_TICK_CTR, W, BANKED
        xorlw   3
        bz      SID_WT_Branch_Play_TB303G0
        rgoto   SID_WT_NextClkLoop

SID_WT_Branch_Play_TB303G0
        IRQ_DISABLE
        ;; exception: don't clear when slide is active
        BIFCLR  SID_WT_STATE, WT_STATE_SLIDE, BANKED, rgoto SID_WT_Branch_Play_TB303G0_Clr
SID_WT_Branch_Play_TB303G0_Slide
        bsf     SID_WT_STATE, WT_STATE_SLIDE_PREV, BANKED
        rgoto   SID_WT_Branch_Play_TB303G0_End

SID_WT_Branch_Play_TB303G0_Clr
        bcf     SID_WT_STATE, WT_STATE_SLIDE_PREV, BANKED
        bcf     SID_V1_BASE + SID_Vx_MODE, SID_MODE_GATE_SET_REQ, BANKED
        bsf     SID_V1_BASE + SID_Vx_MODE, SID_MODE_GATE_CLR_REQ, BANKED
        ;;      rgoto   SID_WT_Branch_Play_TB303G0_End

SID_WT_Branch_Play_TB303G0_End
[/code]
(the counter has a predivider --- it's the WT rate --- and it can be synched to MIDI clock)
Can't wait till I get my hands on it. DJs in my city will go crazy.
The beta release is already available on request
In fact everything is finished since 2 weeks, only the documentation is missing ;-)
Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Afro88]

Holy crap, you rule TK!! The mapping feature sounds really great. LFO's and envelopes too! Amazing. This will be really really handy.

303 details in a while, that's cool, I'm sure we can all wait as long as it takes for a feature as cool as this.

Thanks again TK!

[airmailed]

hi Thorsten..

will the new aout module work on a single voltage or does it need  + and - voltages to work?

best wishes

adam

[TK.]

Hi Adam,

will the new aout module work on a single voltage or does it need  + and - voltages to work?

the output voltage of the 74HC595 is 0V..2.5V, it depends on the following analog circuit if a biased voltage is required or not.

If I should ever make a PCB for the AOUT_LC module, I will prefer a biased voltage, because all filters I own are working with biased voltages, too...

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Modularman]

i think the 303 style keyboard is a great idea.. i had been wanting to put such a thing in my sid but wasn't sure if i could handle the programming.... i think a useful feature might be using the keyboard to control the arpeggiator... and maybe have a "latching" mode, where the keys could be pressed once and send a continuous note on to the arpeggiator (so that they would not need to be held down)... i know it's unsure whether there is room in the firmware for this but it might be a nice touch if it's possible...

i have bought some of ken stones steiner vcf boards for my mbfm.. they run on +-12v,

http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs35_syntha_vcf.html

i might just include these in the fm without any voltage control.. (just knobs for cutoff and q) i have to see how much 12v stuff i can run from a 250ma supply.. the plan is to include separate input sockets for the vcfs so that external signals can be run through them, i might also include  rotary switches so that i can switch the outputs from the fm between each filter input (hp, lp, bp) and also bypass the filters if i want to....

for anyone wanting a filterbox i think these look great for that (i didn't build them yet but have built ken stones passive ringmod which i really like, the mod input is direct coupled so that very low signals... like 0.01hz can be used to modulate the audio)... ken delivers the boards very quick...  thats my recommendation ;-)

Love the bent MB_SID

I have to agree that the Steiner VCF filter from Ken Stone would be an excellent addition to the MB_SID, it has a low parts count but sounds great, but it has another BIG advantage over other filters, the Low pass, Band pass and High pass inputs can be used simultaniously and mixing levels to each input creates some very cool effects..........it is unique in this respect, I've built lots of filters and this one really is nice, the pcb is pretty cheap from Ken too. I've recently seen a mod somewhere to add voltage control to the resonance, I can probably find it if anyone's interested..........

Allan

[cheater]

(the counter has a predivider --- it's the WT rate --- and it can be synched to MIDI clock)

I can't have the MB SID generating midi clock on its own, can I?  ???

Can't wait till I get my hands on it. DJs in my city will go crazy.

The beta release is already available on request

In fact everything is finished since 2 weeks, only the documentation is missing ;-)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

(need hardware too - a full-fledged version, not what I have :D)

[TK.]

I can't have the MB SID generating midi clock on its own, can I?  ???

You can't, because you haven't built a MIDIbox SID yet, and therefore don't know about the possibilities ;-)

Be honest: are you writing these postings as a provocation?

Thats my impression, because your ideas are mostly far from real requirements, and on queries about your crude statements you never give an answer (this happend several times in the past)

Hint: add "movlw 0xf8" and "call MIOS_MIDI_TxBufferPut" after the SID_WT_Branch_Play_TB303 label and you will get a MIDI clock...

Most people prefer MIDI slave capabilities, since this simplifes the synchronization with PC based sequencers, where the MIDI In has mostly an higher jitter than the MIDI Out (especially when USB based interfaces are used), and where the automatic latency compansation with the Audio record function only works correctly when the host sends the clock

If any MIDIbox user would give me the request, that he needs a MIDI clock output for a certain application, and if he would really use it, I would build this into the firmware. But I don't do this for boys who think that they have found a virtually important function which must be implemented before he starts to get his own experiences with the endless features which are already available (and which are for 33% not used by anybody but myself...)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[cheater]

I was asking because I want to take this stuff with myself to the dancefloor... can't take my PC with me there... No need to be like that! We're not here to make eachother's life to the worse, after all, are we..? ;)

[TK.]

This doesn't answer the question: why do you need a MIDI clock output, what do you want to do with this clock exactly? Why do you think that a master clock, sent by the SID, is better than clocking the SID as slave?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[cheater]

Because then, when using an external filter/delay/fx box that has midi and sync-to-bpm capabilities, I could use it with that. No need for a third device that generates midi clock to slave both of them. Filter boxes can never generate midi clock - and even if they would, it would be very much impossible to sync one to a turntable...

However, if you think that's hard, unnecessary, or a loss of time, a simple "no" or "you'll have to add this feature yourself" is enough.

I communicate what I'd be happy to see in those great tools that you have created. If nobody ever said what they'd find cool, you (and other people) wouldn't know. I'm not telling you, however, that my wish is your command - do you feel you have to reply to every topic, that you have to be the one who implements all the features? You said yourself that other people are supposed to do the work as well. So why not leave easy/unnecessary/uninteresting jobs to other people? If somebody really wants something implemented, they will accomplish this, even without your help.

Regarding your question whether I have an MB SID: I'm at university, it's back home. This is why I'm sometimes asking things which might possibly be answered by simply having one, physically. If you find this annoying - I'm sorry. I never meant to be like this; I'll try to hold off with my "urgencies" in the future, then.

[TK.]

Ok, MIDI clock output can be enabled with Parameter #125 ("MIDI Sync"), bit 3 in the next release

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[cheater]

Thanks, Thorsten. However, I'm still saying I could probably try to figure it out on my own later on (after exams), no need to use up your time. I was asking just to know if it's readily available or if I'd have to try and add it on my own.

Btw, if you say there's a small demand for this - wouldn't it be better to spare the globally available settings and just make it a mios hack (e.g. uncommenting stuff)?

Perhaps everyone could have their own set of those "hacks" that they could assign the leftover bit flags to.

Just an idea, as I've often seen you shun on changes that use up parameters.

[TK.]

For sound engine hacks the SE option already exists (it provides 7 flags, one is allocated for the TB303 option, the others are free yet) - see http://69.56.171.55/~midibox/forum/index.php?topic=4447.0

The MIDI Clock Out option uses an existing register which already stores the three sync flags for LFO/ENV/WT, 5 flags are free. As mentioned above, the option itself consumes 4 assembly instructions, thats ok for a general option.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[cheater]

Thanks a lot for clarifying this to me! :)

cheers,

damian

[analofbrotha]

:)Off the hook!!!

info!!

da da da_ da  Thai's lovn' it

[drsyncenstein]

Hello,

i'm really interested in the aout for midibox sid option.

i would like to have a separate controlled vcf for each of my four sids.

(i already build two steiner synthacon filtes and they sound great,

now i need to think of something for the other two, perhaps the oberheim sem filter)

to finish it off i would like to have each sid\vcf to have a vca of it's own.

the reason for this is to get rid of the sid noise when there is no note playing.

so my question is: will it be possible to send the sid envelope curve as a voltage to a vca or

is it possible to have a gate\trigger per sid, so that i can use a dedicated adsr for each vca?

i realise that it would not be very good for using the 3 voices in each sid chip when you use it in polyphonic mode,

but that's why there are four sids :)

Stefan

[RowanHall]

hey there everybody! i come back and find the sid has gone accceiddd! simply amazing! always loved those sliding licks of the 303! its been a while, but i've been a busy bee and have time to get this sid completed! got the box painted, so all i got to do is get the other three sids going and the facepanel and i'm sweet! just one thing i'm wondering though, is it likely that more buttons etc are going to be added? or are these going to be menu options etc?

good to be back,

Rowan

[idiotcountry2]

Thorsten,

Any news on this new version of the MIDIbox SID firmware? :)

[TK.]

A link to the current beta version (beta9) can be found here: http://69.56.171.55/~midibox/forum/index.php?topic=4956.0

I'm still waiting for the curtis chips in order to finalize the low-cost AOUT controlled filter circuit, then I will start with the documentation.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[idiotcountry2]

Thank you. TH=he information contained in the changelog was exactly what I was wanting to read! :)

tm

[kokoon]

hello!

i just found this: http://www.prophet64.com/sounds.php

check out the samples, especially http://www.prophet64.com/sounds/random1.mp3 and http://www.prophet64.com/sounds/random2.mp3

this is done with just a c64 (a native application called prophet64 - http://www.prophet64.com - that means the original filter if i understand correctly!

if they can do this... i'm sure we can do it too? CAUSE THAT WOULD BE JUST TOO COOL!!!

[TK.]

Did you ever check the patches/ directory of the sidv1.7303beta9 release, there are some premade TB303 sequences, just as an inspiration :)

In difference to Prophet64, it's also possible to control an external filter with the internal envelopes, this makes the results even more interesting

Best Regards, Thorsten.