pwx Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Hi All!... I´m not able to play back a programmed sequence with my MPC, using MB-SID as Sound-Module, without crashing MB-SID!!! >:(MB will play 2 or 3 Notes before crashing....No problems during recording the MIDI-Notes..... ???I´ve tried with all downloadable Versions of MIOS and SID-App.No problems with Logic-Audio, no Prolems with MB-SEQ,.... only if I try to use it with an MPC,... no success!!! :(Anyone else with this problem??thanx,pwx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Hi,the only crash condition which is currently known for v1.7303 happens, when CC#117 is received with value 13 (this assigns velocity depth to the velocity function). For v1.7a I'm not sure, I can only say that all other known bugs are only fixed in the current beta, and not in v1.7aIn order to debug this, you could trace the MIDI output of your MPC with MIDI-Ox - which events are sent before the crash happens?Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwx Posted February 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Hi Thorsten!I wasn´t able to use MIDI-Ox.... mac user... but I had a look at the events, using snoize´s MIDIMonitor, Serge´s SysExLibrarian... and: I couldn´t find any CC or similar event,.... only the notes I seqenced were played back.... only one aspect confuses me: There were Note On events,.... but I couldn´t see Note Off events.. normal ???Rev.: SID crashs DIRECT after the FIRST recieved note and got a "hanging" MIDI-note.......... seems like the Note Off event´s missing :o or what´s going on?Sorry for that shit :-\ but... I´ve really no similar Problems with my other synths, sequenced with the MPC... for example clavia nordrack 2, virus....The only synth with a similar, but only sporadic problem, is my mfb-synthII as I reported in another post, a few months ago...I´ve testet the last beta version of 1.7 ,too.... soI´m getting confused,.... also I´ve never had problems using Logic to sequence the MB-SID (but I think, Logic sends Note Off events,... am I right?)Nobody out there with a MPC and MB-SID,... can`t believe it ;DBest,pwx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotfunk Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 if you see a note off with a velocity of zero you can interpret that as a note off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 if you see a note off with a velocity of zero you can interpret that as a note off if you see a note on with a velocity of zero you can interpret that as a note off Typo Fixed :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwx Posted February 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 if you see a note on with a velocity of zero you can interpret that as a note off Typo Fixed :)Yes,... but there´s no note event with velocity 0.... and also no note off event..pwx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jidis Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Thorsten,Don't know exactly what PWX's MPC sequence data consists of, but is it possible that it's note length data could screw things up (I don't guess he'd be sending a drum sequence to the SID)? I know some of my machines only output a quick "spike" of note duration for the pads and sequencer, expecting the sound module's samples to create the sustain. I don't think they will record incoming message lengths from external MIDI triggering either(beyond that spike), but I guess the MPC has a "real sequencer". I also had a Digidesign SampleCell card that was weird about the note on/off proximity between two events of the same note number. If a note off happened within a certain distance of the next note on, it was either totally ignoring the new one, or ignoring the note off and creating continually overlapping notes, hogging up the voices (it was a long time ago). Backing the note off message up by a few pulses solved it, but it ruined the thing's value for my main loop-based applications. >:(PWX- Also guessing this stuff's been quantized, and there aren't by chance duplicates coming out simultaneously.Good Luck,George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Yes,... but there´s no note event with velocity 0.... and also no note off event..I cannot believe this - could this be related to your MIDI interface (I remember that there was a problem some time ago...Don't know exactly what PWX's MPC sequence data consists of, but is it possible that it's note length data could screw things up (I don't guess he'd be sending a drum sequence to the SID)? I know some of my machines only output a quick "spike" of note duration for the pads and sequencer, expecting the sound module's samples to create the sustain. I don't think they will record incoming message lengths from external MIDI triggering either(beyond that spike), but I guess the MPC has a "real sequencer".I'm very sure that MIOS based applications don't have MIDI bandwidth problems, even back-to-back Note On/Off won't cause a problem. Just open the SysEx monitor of MIDI-Ox, write "90 30 7f 30 00 31 7f 31 00 32 7f 32 00" in order to send 3 Note On/Off events with maximum speed to MBSID.If the MIDI-Ox trace doesn't show any Note Off event, then it must be a general hardware or driver problem. Pwx: please upload the MIDImon application, which events are displayed?(Unfortunately I still haven't released a new version with prepared setup for 2x20 LCD yet, you need to set the DEFAULT_NUMBER_OF_LINES constant to 2, thereafter recompile the code with MPASM)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwx Posted February 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Hm,... I`m now using an emagic amt8 and no longer the emi 6/2 .....and I´m also now able to do my Updates via MIDI,..(I´ve got to update my posts regarding this solution.)... so, I do not think that it´s an Interface prob... And: I´ve tried this with several different notes,... short! notes,...... and MB-SID ignores note off and bends the sounds,...like George wrote.I would try to upload MIDImon,... but I´ve never changed an application and never recompiled the stuff, so..... I´m not shure, how long this will take for me to do that :-\Perhaps, someone could do this,..... and we can go ahead to find out what the real prob is?Sorry,... I´m really not lazy..... it´s just..... im a greenhorn in programming ::)Anyway,... I´ll try to do it today.pwx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Moment - does MBSID really crash (boot screen), or does it just skip short notes, or changes the pitch or something like that?Then check the envelope settings! ;-)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwx Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Moment - does MBSID really crash (boot screen), or does it just skip short notes, or changes the pitch or something like that?Then check the envelope settings! ;-)Hi,... sorry,... it does not really crash (boot screen)..... but the notes are "hanging"... sounds like they are played legato like.... no Note Off accepted.... no matter how long or how short they are!best,pwx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin-X Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 pwx sorry to ask this but you have the mpc2000xl and the mpc2500 and the sid does not work on both?I have a mpc4000 i will try tonight if the sid works yes or no. I have not tried it yet (have not touched my gear for 6 months now ;D). It are not similar machines but it is worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Hi,... sorry,... it does not really crash (boot screen)..... but the notes are "hanging"... sounds like they are played legato like.... no Note Off accepted.... no matter how long or how short they are!But if your sequencer doesn't send Note Off's, then the notes -> are <- hanging. Thats just the MIDI protocol. If this strange behaviour works with another synth (like the Virus), then it just means, that it works with an algorithm which drops long-hanging notes. MBFM has the same algorithm, but 1) this is not possible with the SID (e.g. due to the envelope bug), and 2) we are talking about a misbehaviour of your sequencer anyhow.In my oppinion there might be a configuration error or something like this in your MPC - you are saying that you do vary the length, and this *must* definitely mean, that once a Note On has been played, there must also be a Note Off after the specified length.Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 pwx, perhaps you could record the midi stream and upload it for investigation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwx Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Twin-x: yes,... I´ve got MPC2000XL and MPC2500,..... and problem is the same with both ...and I would be very flashed,... if your MPC4000 has not this problem ! :oThorsten: I did not say that´s a prob with the app..... ;D Perhaps, this is a common Akai MPC problem,... but I was interested,.. why I can seq. all my other synths and only MB-SID not.Another thing is: During recording the events,.... MB-SID got no problems.... only after I stopped recording and playing back the seq.... I got these problems.... so the pads of MPC should send note off,... and: it´s the same when I use a MIDI-Keyboard to record.stryd_one: I´ll do this tonight an post it here :)Greets,pwx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin-X Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 My freund i have to dissapoint you. I can play notes without crashing. (i have to admit my sid is not 100% ready and i have mios 1.7)mpc4000 and sid is ok!Try a to do a factory reset (e.g. turn off autoloader if you have that.) set drum pad to keyboard set sid to channel 10 and hit the pads till you get dizzy. Worked for me so i think it works. But the mpc4000 software is totally diffrent from 2000 or 2500 series. So it stilll could be in that.Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwx Posted February 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 My freund i have to dissapoint you. I can play notes without crashing. (i have to admit my sid is not 100% ready and i have mios 1.7)mpc4000 and sid is ok!Try a to do a factory reset (e.g. turn off autoloader if you have that.) set drum pad to keyboard set sid to channel 10 and hit the pads till you get dizzy. Worked for me so i think it works. But the mpc4000 software is totally diffrent from 2000 or 2500 series. So it stilll could be in that.Good luck!Hey Twin-x! :o ... now I´m shocked!Thanx for checking that so fast!!!Factory Reset didn´t solve the prob and,.... now I´ll call Akai to ask,...I´ll post what they say later today!Thanx again,pwx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin-X Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 pwx,Have you got any other midibox related stuff? For testing?Try asking the same thing over at http://mpc-forums.com they will blame the midibox for sure ;D ;DBut that community is so big there might be just the person for you.Regards,Jeffry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwx Posted February 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Hi!Twin-x: good link, thank u! Yes, MPC4000 is totally different from the other MPC-stuff (you´re a lucky guy :D )All: I´ve talked to akai, checked MPC MIDI-Implementation and now I think I know what the problem is 8)MPC2000xl,MPC2500,.... does NOT SEND a VELOCITY 0 with NOTE OFF event!Could this be the point? am I right?greets,pwx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwx Posted February 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 ;D ;Dok,all!After searching not only www.akaipro.de I´ve also checked www.akaipro.com and: there´s an very new update OS 1.10 for MPC2500 witch solves this bug!!!Thank you all for your help and sorry for that long discussion,... I hope, this will help others to fix this prob!TK: could you please add a "solved" to this?Greets,pwx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Great! :)This is no "topics solved" board like the Troubleshooting section, but you will get it in this way:[tt] / / / Solved! \ / \/ [/tt]Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwx Posted February 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 :) that´s nice!thanx,pwx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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