Fatar Studio 90 MIDIBOXed

[stryd_one]

Imagaine- an 88 key weighted mechanism for  little or nothing....drool!

Keep dreaming mate ;)

Check it out though, you never know!

[docbrown]

FYO

Went to www.fatar.com Pretty cool. They now sell keyboards only (did anyone else know that?). I e-mailed them on the chances of getting the matrix layout for their keyboards, but I would say the chances of getting a reply would only be two- none and f-all.

However, I wonder what their minimum order for keyboards would be. It would certainly cut costs for midi boxers to be able to buy the ebony and ivory only and build around it based on their needs.

Any thoughts?

Perhaps I'll contact them again in the hope of finding such info. Imagaine- an 88 key weighted mechanism for  little or nothing....drool!

Wow I did not know that :o, that will be sweet.. All and all, I only care about the keyboard matrix of the Fatar controller and the rest (logic system) stinks. Good find!!

[docbrown]

Ok, For what I understand so far, correct me if I'm wrong... If I where to proceed with this project with just a MIDI router as suppose to be a whole new logic rebuilt.

This project will require a:

1. Core Module

2. single DIN (control panel i.e switches & encoders)

3. IIC MIDI Modules (I have question about this)

4. MIOS & MIDI router application with Styrd_One's code.

About #3, I know that the MIDI router talks about specifically connecting multiple IIC MIDI Module on which will give you a multiple in/out in regards to MIDI ports.

Since the core module already have a MIDI IN/OUT (which is the only MIDI ports that I need for now), Can I just load the MIOS, MIDI Router app, and Styrd_One's code on the core without using the IIC MIDI Module?

Please advice..

[stryd_one]

1) Yep

2) Yep but you might get away without a DIN, it could be programmed by MIDI if you want

3) Only if you want more than one MIDI out

4) You might want more than just my addition :)

As for your question, you are right, the router app will work with just the core, no IIC MIDI outs.

[Sinnsyk]

Am I right that he could use the display to show him some valuable information, like a MIDI-clock and tempo etc etc. Or is that another MBHP module..?

[stryd_one]

Yes a display connected could be good. It could be connected to the existing core module.

[docbrown]

Am I right that he could use the display to show him some valuable information, like a MIDI-clock and tempo etc etc. Or is that another MBHP module..?

Yes, display is a must, since this involves key mappings/splits. I just roughly estimated the major modules of the project.

About the applications, besides the midi router. What else can be included? any suggestions..

[henrygr]

Me again.

No reply from Fatar. You surprised stryd_one?

Ok. Hit them again. I really want some of their keyboards (has anyone seen the wooden keyboard with inverted white on black :P)

This time i wrote (bit of bulls**t)

"I am interested in finding out who the importer of the FATAR range of products is in Ireland, as I am building a range of purpose ordered keyboards, as well as refurbishing Church organs arould Ireland. Could one of your sales team please e-mail me. I would have no problem arranging my own logistics from Italy if the case may be

Many Thanks In Anticipation of your Reply,"

Keep you all posted. Maybe I'll send an e-mail a day just to keep them on their toes!!!

HG

[stryd_one]

:o Shock! Horror!  ;)

[docbrown]

Styrd_one or anybody,

Since you are building the code for this project(thanks BTW ;D). What's your "guess-timate" amount of buttons and encoders for this project.

Here's whats in my head:

Let say its going to be a 4 zone split and can overlap depends on the settings. Will a single encoder with switch do the trick when it comes to data entry? How about a reset switch to clear the splits settings.

Imagine this will be the actual screen (Correct me if I'm wrong)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zone1 = MIDI CH 1      Zone2 = MIDI CH 2      Zone3 = MIDI CH 3        Zone4 = MIDI CH 4

Range = C1 ~ C3          Range = C#3 ~ C5      Range = C#5 ~ C6        Range = C#6 ~ E7 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Encoder is used to scroll thru the notes and midi channels while the buttons is to select the data.

What do you(guys) thinks so far.. Please advise.. thanks...

[stryd_one]

Oh crap I totally forgot about that!! So sorry!! Man I feel like such a space cadet right now. I just put it on my list for this w/e.

I'll consider the UI when I take breaks from coding, but one feature I know I'd like is to set the range by holding a button and hitting a key. We also need a way to set the keyshifting. The keyshift would work like this:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zone1 = MIDI CH 1      Zone2 = MIDI CH 2      Zone3 = MIDI CH 3        Zone4 = MIDI CH 4

Range = C1 ~ C3          Range = C#3 ~ C5      Range = C#5 ~ C6        Range = C#6 ~ E7 

Shift  = 0                  Shift  = -24              Shift  = -1                  Shift  = -37                 

(No shift)                    (2 Octaves)                (1 Semitone)                (3 Octaves+1 Semitone)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Outputs Channel 1        Outputs Channel 2        Outputs Channel 3        Outputs Channel 4

Range    C1 ~ C3          Range    C#1 ~ C3        Range    C5 ~ B6          Range    C3 ~ F4

Obviously that's too much for one screen but it was an easy way to lay out the text. We really need to decide on the full featureset before laying out the screen.

I thought of another feature... Quick re-mapping of modwheel and pitchwheel (to other CC's and to (N)RPN's respectively.

Feeding modwheel/pitchwheel/velocity/keyscale as an input to sysex? Actually those two features could go together...

Have a matrix thing; take one of modwheel/pitchwheel/velocity/keyscale as an input, and insert the value into either a MIDI CC, Pitchbend, (N)RPN, patch change or sysex string sent to outputs.

You could have a split which acts as a controller sender... Each key gets a CC# and the velocity is sent as the CC value...

Then you might as well throw in a few pots/encoders/sliders/buttons/all of the above as well, you could use those values with the same engine mentioned above.

I'm just making these ideas up as I type so it's a bit fragmented, but am I making sense? What do you think of these ideas?

[docbrown]

Oh crap I totally forgot about that!! So sorry!! Man I feel like such a space cadet right now. I just put it on my list for this w/e.

I'll consider the UI when I take breaks from coding, but one feature I know I'd like is to set the range by holding a button and hitting a key. We also need a way to set the keyshifting. The keyshift would work like this:

Dude, no worries.. I'm the one that needs your help. I know you have plenty stuff in your plate. ;)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zone1 = MIDI CH 1      Zone2 = MIDI CH 2      Zone3 = MIDI CH 3        Zone4 = MIDI CH 4

Range = C1 ~ C3          Range = C#3 ~ C5      Range = C#5 ~ C6        Range = C#6 ~ E7 

Shift  = 0                  Shift  = -24              Shift  = -1                  Shift  = -37                 

(No shift)                    (2 Octaves)                (1 Semitone)                (3 Octaves+1 Semitone)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Outputs Channel 1        Outputs Channel 2        Outputs Channel 3        Outputs Channel 4

Range    C1 ~ C3          Range    C#1 ~ C3        Range    C5 ~ B6          Range    C3 ~ F4

All I can say is sweet!! Looks really good..

Obviously that's too much for one screen but it was an easy way to lay out the text. We really need to decide on the full featureset before laying out the screen.

I Agree..

I thought of another feature... Quick re-mapping of modwheel and pitchwheel (to other CC's and to (N)RPN's respectively.

Feeding modwheel/pitchwheel/velocity/keyscale as an input to sysex? Actually those two features could go together...

Have a matrix thing; take one of modwheel/pitchwheel/velocity/keyscale as an input, and insert the value into either a MIDI CC, Pitchbend, (N)RPN, patch change or sysex string sent to outputs.

You could have a split which acts as a controller sender... Each key gets a CC# and the velocity is sent as the CC value...

Then you might as well throw in a few pots/encoders/sliders/buttons/all of the above as well, you could use those values with the same engine mentioned above.

Yeah, ;D lets cram as much feature as we can on this project. ;D So long as the memory of the PIC permits.

I'm just making these ideas up as I type so it's a bit fragmented, but am I making sense? What do you think of these ideas?

Yes, it makes sense. My soldering iron is erect!!  ;D ;D ;D

[stryd_one]

Dude, no worries.. I'm the one that needs your help. I know you have plenty stuff in your plate. ;)

Hey, I can use this code too, it'll breathe new life into my once-upon-a-time top notch KX76... Honestly I just spaced out hehehe ;)

Yeah, ;D lets cram as much feature as we can on this project. ;D So long as the memory of the PIC permits.

Exactly. Fortunately the router project leaves a fair amount of RAM to play with... Obviously with the IIC modules we could feasibly use the 4620 too which has oodles of RAM, but I don't think that should be necessary (depending on how many keyranges we want to assign of course)

Yes, it makes sense. My soldering iron is erect!!  ;D ;D ;D

LMAO :) any other ideas you can think of?

[docbrown]

Regarding any more ideas, no not yet. I have been busy for the past two days gathering parts for my PIC Burner. Then last night, I just finish my PIC Burner on a vector board and programmed 2x 18F452-I/P for any future MIDIBOX project. One PIC will be this über MIDI router and the other is for my future SID box.

Since I like to start on this project anyway, even though SmashTV just shipped my MBSEQv2 kits ;D I will however gather the parts needed on this über MIDI router.

Man,, I'm so excited!! ;D ;D I wish I have discovered this site years ago.. I did not see this site until last month, when looking for a DIY analog style sequencer... ;)

Question about the über MIDI router: How many DIN and DOUT's do you think I need?

[stryd_one]

Alright I'll do the code this week then - It got a bit complex for a quick bit of coding on the weekend, but it should keep me busy on the tram ;)

[docbrown]

Just a follow-up on this. I have all of the possible hardware for this project. The core, dinx, dout, encoders, switches, and MIDI connectors are all ready.

I also have a 2x20 (1 unit), 2x40 (2 units), and 4x20 (1 unit) LCD's in my stock.

So when ever your are ready... thanks.. :)

[henrygr]

docbrown,

Do you plan to use the original Fatar board and midi out from that, or to put its matrix through the MBox console?

[docbrown]

Henrygr,

I originally plan to replace all of the logics of the fatar. But since it deals a lot of programming some new code, I'll stick to a modified midi router application that Styrd_One is putting together for now.

Once I learn more about ASM, C, & MIDIBOX platform, I will eventually connect the fatar matrix to Mbox.

I'm still a one month old MIDIBOX baby. :'( :'( :'( ;D ;D

[stryd_one]

Dudes I'm sorry I haven't been up to scratch on delivering this.. I'm just getting thrashed at work, I'm doing my third 75+ hour week in a row. I know this might seem strange, because you see me on here all the time, but that's what I do with all my free time, and it's what I do when I need to take a break. Gets my mind off work for a bit so I can get back and concentrate harder :)

Anyway I thought I'd also mention that I'm toying with another feature at the moment, which is using program change, CC and MIDI Note messages to program the module. This means no CS required for a lot of boards (it's already on there) and also that you could use external devices (footswitches, sequencers, etc) to enable/disable/change keysplits and such.

Good news aside, I'm honestly sorry I haven't been able to find time to do this. I'm on call this weekend, so I'm trapped behind my laptop, so if the phone stays quiet, maybe by monday...But maybe not :( I am trying hard, but just can't make any promises. I wish I hadn't come up with those extra ideas!

Okay here's what I'd reaallllly love to put on it and reallllly don't have time to research - mapping notes to scales. The code is easy, the algorithm is the tricky bit. Anyone game to give this a try while I'm sorting out the rest?

Edit: I'll post the concept documents to the wiki tomorrow.

[docbrown]

Dudes I'm sorry I haven't been up to scratch on delivering this.. I'm just getting thrashed at work, I'm doing my third 75+ hour week in a row. I know this might seem strange, because you see me on here all the time, but that's what I do with all my free time, and it's what I do when I need to take a break. Gets my mind off work for a bit so I can get back and concentrate harder :)

Anyway I thought I'd also mention that I'm toying with another feature at the moment, which is using program change, CC and MIDI Note messages to program the module. This means no CS required for a lot of boards (it's already on there) and also that you could use external devices (footswitches, sequencers, etc) to enable/disable/change keysplits and such.

Good news aside, I'm honestly sorry I haven't been able to find time to do this. I'm on call this weekend, so I'm trapped behind my laptop, so if the phone stays quiet, maybe by monday...But maybe not :( I am trying hard, but just can't make any promises. I wish I hadn't come up with those extra ideas!

Okay here's what I'd reaallllly love to put on it and reallllly don't have time to research - mapping notes to scales. The code is easy, the algorithm is the tricky bit. Anyone game to give this a try while I'm sorting out the rest?

Edit: I'll post the concept documents to the wiki tomorrow.

No problem man.. I understand.. I can say in my part, "When ever you can deliver, no rush at all".. We're the one that needs your help..

Currently, I am very busy finishing up my SEQv2, plus I'm putting together my 18F4620 PIC based core for my test SEQv3.

Lastly, I'm in the process of collecting some parts for my Fatman and SEM synth. ;D ;D I'm sure you see my post about it. ;)

So all in all, I have plenty to work on. I say this project (for my part) is currently on hold too.

;D

[stryd_one]

Just a quick update, I have done some work on this, basically the way it works is that it stores the last played of each type of midi message, so they can be used as modulators for messages sent in real time.... You set up as many 'operators' as you want, and when a message is sent from the keyboard to the core, if it matches the input filter of the operator, the message is combined with fixed parameters, user-selected values, and/or the stored input from other messages, to provide the output you require.

This sounds more complex than it is ;) I'll give some examples....

Lets say you select the traditional midi mapper operator. You set it to accept midi note ons/note offs, on channel 1 (because your controller is stick on channel 1 heheh) , in the range between C2 and C3... You select a note shift of +12, and a channel shift of +5, and it will output notes on channel 6, between C3 and C4

Or you could use an operator which maps the last received CC#1 (modwheel) value to the velocity of the incoming notes, so you can use the modwheel to control velocity.... and then use the incoming velocity to set another midi CC like filter cutoff....

I know that's not a great explanation but I've done too much typing this week already so I hope this makes it clear enough! :)

[docbrown]

Just a quick update, I have done some work on this, basically the way it works is that it stores the last played of each type of midi message, so they can be used as modulators for messages sent in real time.... You set up as many 'operators' as you want, and when a message is sent from the keyboard to the core, if it matches the input filter of the operator, the message is combined with fixed parameters, user-selected values, and/or the stored input from other messages, to provide the output you require.

This sounds more complex than it is ;) I'll give some examples....

Lets say you select the traditional midi mapper operator. You set it to accept midi note ons/note offs, on channel 1 (because your controller is stick on channel 1 heheh) , in the range between C2 and C3... You select a note shift of +12, and a channel shift of +5, and it will output notes on channel 6, between C3 and C4

Or you could use an operator which maps the last received CC#1 (modwheel) value to the velocity of the incoming notes, so you can use the modwheel to control velocity.... and then use the incoming velocity to set another midi CC like filter cutoff....

I know that's not a great explanation but I've done too much typing this week already so I hope this makes it clear enough! :)

Dude,

This sound great!! I look forward to the final app.

thanks..

[stryd_one]

'Before' shot ;)

IM000503.JPG

[stryd_one]

Possible Test Subject #2 (Unless it has enough space in it for an 8xSID)

Either way, USD$36 for a 61 note keybed in a nice plain case with wooden end cheeks.... scorrre. It was worth getting up at 5am ;)

[TheAncientOne]

Hi Stryd

Just noticed this: I've got a complete Alpha here, all bar a keyboard cable.....you didn't get a cable with it, did you?

If you want to try ressurrecting the beast, I could probably dig out the interface card and trace it, it was only a little thing, as I recall.

A Goth friend of mine tracked the software down for me last year. I think I've been putting off an attempt at a rebuild in case it sounds awful. I always fancied one of these 'poor mans Fairlights' when they were current. Now all I need for a complete set is a Greengate DS3, (remember "19" anyone?).

Best wishes

Mike