PCBs in 15 minutes. Tankless etching. Panel art. Vacuum moulding.

[DrBunsen]

DIY PCBs in 15 minutes - including plating, silkscreening and pseudo solder masking, without UV exposure.  They claim you can get lines as fine as .006".  Seemingly the only catch is you have to use a laser printer or photocopier for your artwork transfer, not an inkjet.

In their Hints and Tips directory there's a description of a method of etching without a tank - basically rubbing the etchant on the PCB with a sponge.  They say it's faster and uses way less chemical. 

They also have some other good tips like for aligning a double sided board - do one side then drill your holes - and getting high even pressure when doing toner transfer with an iron, by rolling the board over a dowel.

The same "Toner Transfer System" they sell can also be used for panel art - full colour, white, black or metallic onto black, white, clear, glass, CDs, etc.  Even temporary tattoos  ;D and milling small parts out of sheet brass.

Apart from that, they sell an $89.95 vacuum forming kit for moulding custom plastic parts using a home or shop vacuum cleaner.

I've only just found these guys so I can't comment on their materials or techniques, (all the above is just taken from their website) but they look sound, and the materials seem cheap enough.  I also have no connection with the company, just an interested MIDIboxer.

[Altitude]

I like the laminator idea.  I have a datak etching tank which is an elegant rig and makes easy work of etching board since there is no clean up, just put the top on the tank.  I have no problem using photo exposing and I can get traces down to 0.016"  but this system would make life easier for sure, also makes 2 sided boards much easier to make

[Otterfan]

I've seen this direct transfer method a few other places, minus the silkscreening, plating, etc but using cheaper glossy inkjet photo-papers:

http://www.5bears.com/pcb.htm

http://homepage.eircom.net/~ei9gq/pcb.html

http://max8888.orcon.net.nz/pcbs.htm

This guy even suggests another kind of cheap paper that will do "silkscreening":

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

I don't know how any of these work, but it might be worth trying a few cheaper papers before spending $15 on 10 sheets.

[Altitude]

I have seen plenty of DIY toner transfer systems but with this I think the key is the actual laminator.  Everyone I talked to said using an iron to heat it up is very hit and miss

[DrBunsen]

Well my house mate has a laminator, so I might give it a go when I've got something to etch.

[Davo]

See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/ for detailed discussion of this stuff.  I've tried it and got mediocre to bad results.  Maybe it was my technique.  The above-mentioned group also has info on using inkjet photo paper in a laser printer for toner-transfer.  Some people get better results that way than with Pulsar's special paper.

[Jidis]

Davo,

Damn. :( I'm guessing you never got much out of the toner transfers, even with the paper. I just grabbed a new pack this weekend and have been having better luck than before (which was pretty good anyway). The package for the new Staples paper was different, but the number was the same. I think it was the ironing that helped though. I bumped my iron down a couple notches to a "polyester" setting, and gave it a little more overall time and pressure. I was having trouble blurring the prints with the heat.

I still want a laminator, but probably not unless I find a good one.

@DrBunsen- Watch the thickness on what you're feeding someone else's machine. The specs I saw didn't look as if most of the consumer grade ones would handle even the "average" PCB thicknesses. Don't want you to end up homeless. ;)

Here's some iron-on stuff from this weekend using the Staples paper-

The little nicks and couple pinholes in there were actually part of the print. I'm using an HP LaserJet6L, which prints pretty dark. I normally go around and re-mask thick areas on the outside border lines and stuff with a marker if it's important, but this board was more for practice.

Here's a shot of the etching (which sucked BTW- I was using some exhausted ferric chloride with poor heating and agitation and even had it in sodium persulfate for a bit).

And the labeling:

That did really well with the current setup. I normally use JetPrint paper for labels, but accidentally used a piece of the Staples stuff. The Staples sticks really well, but can leave a whitish "paper residue". You can see a bit of it on that top right LED label. I have a feeling there's a bunch of stuff which would cure that, as it looks really good while it's wet. I sprayed this one with some clear polyurethane and it got rid of most of it. I'm thinking a bit of dark stain might also soak into it and take out the whiteness. I'll try that next. The toner bonds to this board I'm using a lot differently than it does on the copper side,etc. It almost fuses itself into the surface. You can "sort of" wipe it away with acetone, but it leaves a ghost image. You have to sand it to get it all off (that's a good thing I guess).

Here's the iron I'm using:

It's got a sanded-smooth plate of aluminum attached to the bottom with some JB Weld adhesive.

Hope the next stuff comes out this well, but I'll probably forget everything I did. ;D

George

[Davo]

Though you say that board sucks, it's way beyond mine.  I actually have the same kind of laminator that Pulsar recommends, and I got broken traces with feathery edges.  And that was when I could get the toner to transfer cleanly in the first place.

[Jidis]

Hey again,

No, I like that board alright. It's more that the etching process sucked. I think overall, I was hanging out with the chemicals for over a half hour. Neither mix was in usable condition. The Sodium P. was old and was a poor mix to begin with, and the FC was just too old and weak/watery. For a while, I felt like I may as well have dunked the board in some chicken soup.

I built a nice etch tank a while back and haven't been using it because it requires too much etchant. With the heat and bubblers, that thing did a clean etch in a few minutes, even with old nasty watered down FC. I want one of those coffee pot etchers, but if I ever get off my a$$ and get a roll of that green TRF, I may start doing the "wipe etch" thing, which seems perfect for small one-offs. I also want to try that etchant mix that Gootee praises on his site (hardware/drugstore stuff).

Did you ever dig up a different iron or check some other printers/toner? I still think there's something simple behind it. On a bad, frustrating day, I may have to try a transfer 3 or 4 times to get a good one, but that may not still be the case if I can remember my procedure.

>:( Aluminum is another story, but I get it eventually.

Take Care,

George 

[Davo]

I used an HP Laserjet 4000 of some sort at the university.  I recently bought a Brother HL-5250DN, with which I haven't yet tried to make a board.  My new printer might produce better results since it's not abused nearly as much as the uni printer.  I've used both an iron and laminator, both gave bad results.  I suppose I'll get some inkjet paper and try again sometime this week.

[docbrown]

I just grabbed a new pack this weekend and have been having better luck than before (which was pretty good anyway). The package for the new Staples paper was different, but the number was the same.

George,

When you say Staples paper, are you talking about just a regular copy/bond paper? Are they glossy paper?

Do you have the part number?

thanks..

[Jidis]

docbrown,

Hi. I foolishly sort of assumed everybody had been to that Tom Gootee site (Otterfan's reply above has it linked). It's just a "house brand" of glossy inkjet photo paper carried by the Staples chain stores here in the US (unless they're everywhere). The Gootee page has the bar code and everything else about it listed. I think lots of stuff will probably work, but they each may have some unique qualities. The JetPrint stuff I was using (Epson brand I believe) would let the toner slide off by itself, and there was a sort of gooey film between it and the paper (after soaking). The Staples stuff sort of gets glued to the board, and then you peel and rub away at the wet paper until most of it's gone. It bonds really well, but there is that light residue I mentioned. For boards, it doesn't really matter if it isn't blocking holes or anything, but it doesn't look solid black.

I think if you played with a few, you'd probably hit a decent one, but it seems there was a poll somewhere with printers and papers people had used. Could be on the Gootee site, but it could've been from the Yahoo PCB group. It's almost 6am now here, so they're all sort of smushed together in my head. ;)

There's also mention of people just using glossy pages from magazines as the carrier, and a tip on the Yahoo group for some Reynolds brand "Release" wrap (no-stick aluminum foil). I tried that, but it was weird. It was like when you write on a CD with the wrong type of marker and you can just take your finger and smear it off, plus the paper was really fragile. I had mine taped to a paper carrier sheet. I didn't give it enough time because the regular glossy paper was already doing OK, but it's still here.

For the printers, I've run the LaserJet 6L and an old Sharp copy/fax printer (FO-2850 maybe), and before that I was getting decent results with copies from a Xerox machine at my father's office. I think the grade of toner is the ticket. I seem to recall people who had bought replacement toner carts for things which didn't transfer worth a crap. There was also someone actually recommending the no-name carts as replacements for mine. Something about lower melting points with the cheaper quality toner (easier transfers).

Davo- I guess that printer at the university could have just about anything in it if it's been around a while. I think I've heard of people using the 4000 series, so that could be why it wasn't working on that one. In a way I'm almost glad to hear that a laminator isn't a guaranteed perfect transfer every time for everyone. Makes me feel a bit better about not having found one yet, but I'll keep an eye out here anyway.

George     

[docbrown]

George,

Thanks for that great info. You have explained all of my questions regarding toner PCB transfer!!  :) I will try this process as soon as I can.

cheers!!

[DrBunsen]

They mention the PCB thickness problem with laminators on that site, and sell their own thinner PCB.  Also I reckon that the scrub etching process should work whether you're using their transfer stuff or not.

[Mr modnaR]

it's a shame they don't make adjustable laminators.

[Jidis]

I reckon that the scrub etching process should work whether you're using their transfer stuff or not.

Actually, I think the transfer part doesn't matter, but I do recall mention (there maybe) of the green TRF being a requirement. That was why I hadn't tried the sponge yet. I haven't placed a Digikey order in a long while, which is where I'll be getting the TRF. It sounded like maybe the unprotected toner can't withstand the wiping, but it might be worth a shot. That Staples paper I've been using is pretty much all or nothing. If it gets on there, you'd have to scratch into it or eat it off with a solvent. Gootee even mentions wiping it with a paper towel while he etches, so who knows.

BTW- I grabbed that mix he talks about tonight (1 part Muriatic acid to 2 parts Hydrogen Peroxide). I ate the copper traces off an old chunk of pre-etched board in a five or ten minutes, but may get to try something "real" with it tomorrow. Good lord that stuff's got some fumes though! I did everything outside to be safe, and when I first opened the acid, this long "cloud" of crap came out of it that made me choke. I had to run around the corner of the house to get away from it, and it seemed to chase me halfway there. It wasn't bad after that, but I kept a decent distance from it (wearing long rubber gloves and goggles too). On the plus side, it's cheap as dirt and it didn't seem to require heat. A giant jug of it was only 5 bucks and two big bottles of the h.peroxide were another 3. It's also supposed to neutralize with baking soda and it's relatively clear. If it makes a clean etch on real boards, I'm sold.

Take Care,

George

PS- (Mr modnaR) I *think* there have been some mods mentioned in that Yahoo group for "thickness hacks" on the consumer grade laminators. I know they've done stuff like that to printers. I'm not sure the industry would see it as worthwhile though. We're probably the only weirdos trying to feed this sort of crap into them. 8) 

[DrBunsen]

They reckon the thinner stuff is becoming more common.

[Mr modnaR]

PS- (Mr modnaR) I *think* there have been some mods mentioned in that Yahoo group for "thickness hacks" on the consumer grade laminators. I know they've done stuff like that to printers. I'm not sure the industry would see it as worthwhile though. We're probably the only weirdos trying to feed this sort of crap into them. 8) 

yeah i guess so, plus alignment could be a problem if they were made adjustable. they say on the pulsar site that the rollers are made of neoprene, can that be right?