I screwed up on the switch height.

[Jidis]

I've got about three different heights of parts on this thing I'm working on. Most of the switches have homemade caps, so I can make them tall, and the pots have long enough shafts, though I'd rather that metal part at the base have made it through the panel for strength.

These switches on the other hand are going to sit about 8mm below where they need to be:

Have any of you guys ever run into that? If so, what did you do? I was thinking of pulling some of the pins from one of those machined pin sockets (with the round holes), and soldering the buttons legs into them (like stilts), but the pins on the button are sort of fat. Other option I guess is gluing something to the tops and losing the look of the nice square plastic cap. :'(

??? ??? ??? ???

George

[henrygr]

What height do you want. The little, the large or an in betweeny thing?

[henrygr]

Actually, I see hoe youe messed up on the height now.

Knob on left- Distance from base of pin to top of button = x

Knob on right- Distance fron base of pin to top of base = x.

The difference is the buttion on the right. So cut one of those buttons, shove it up the rear ens of the knob on the left, solder solid wire to the pins of the small knob and use tension to pull it into place on the PCB. At least that way the resistive tacile feel to both will at the least be similar.

Like the photo by the way. You should give it a title- "Three knobs and a noob at ordering parts" he he he.......

[Jidis]

You're saying just use the cut one to support the other? I thought of cutting a small scrap of plastic or something for that (don't know if it's worth wasting a switch). I really just don't like the idea of soldering wires to the legs. Seems sort of flimsy.

Thanks,

George

PS- Didn't actually order this stuff. It's been here a while from eBay rampages. ;D

[henrygr]

If you use solid 2mm wire (like solid- not strands) should work. You will also have the fascia unit to gice extra support to the switch mechanism itself.

[Wilba]

If it's possible, try mounting the switches onto their own board, and then put spacers between the two boards.

However, if you've got a lot of individual switches and not a lot of grouping, this probably won't work so well.... maybe even invert the idea, mount all your switches to one board and then mount the taller components behind it, poking through some holes/slots.

[Jidis]

Hi Wilba,

Unfortunately, the board is already laid out and etched, but there are only six of this particular switch. The sub board thing sounds good for something else on the agenda though. I'll have to make sure to leave the proper space for it.

I guess I'm debating now on the solid extension wires just mentioned, or just extending the top of the switch with my own taller button cap. I'm now remembering that these particular switches gave me trouble before, because the caps didn't protrude enough through this aluminum panel material I've got.

If I go with the extensions, I guess I'll be doing that again (scary).

Mark, I know the wire you're talking about (think I've got some here). I guess you're talking about running it parallel to each leg and then bending it a bit to get it back to the hole locations? It's a shame the holes in that machined pin socket weren't big enough. They would sort of "cup" around the existing pin and make for a nice strong joint. Evidently they're hard as a rock. I tried to drill one out a bit, and the bit just snapped off each time it hit the metal.

George

PS- Nothing ever sits at the right height with these PCB mounted parts. LEDs are probably the only ones that try to cooperate.

[mog-ur]

To prevent this problems - you'll have to design before you make your pcb's. That's the point where I'm at the moment. *g*

[stryd_one]

Hey feel free to make the sketchup models available too :)

[mog-ur]

no problem  ;)

(to open the sketchup file just delete ".txt" - it's not allowed to upload *.skp files.  :-[ )

edit: damn, that doesn't work. I'll compress the file -> knobs.rar

PS. Thorsten, is it possible to make *.skp files uploadable?

knobs.rar

[smashtv]

is it possible to make *.skp files uploadable?

Done.  ;)

[Sasha]

Layout planing could be difficult if you have strong criteria. It is definitly better to use some CAD program like mog-ur, but I manage to make my layout using Corel Draw. You can use anny other vector software like Illustrator or Freehand. Also, all CNC services accept cdr, ai vector drawings.

This is the layout I made for alps encoders, albs knobs, 3mm led and 12x12 membrane pushbutton.

[stryd_one]

Awesome :D Thanks mate! 8) I'm really cr*p at graphics apps, that'll help a lot!

[Sasha]

I could attach some vectors tomorrow, so you need just to duplicate it and move it around as you like.

[Jidis]

It is definitly better to use some CAD program like mog-ur, but I manage to make my layout using Corel Draw.

Yeah, I normally do. I run something called "Canvas", and usually run the same version (3.5) I started with back in the MacII days. ;) It does all the dimensioning and stuff. I use it for everything from panel layouts to room layouts and furniture design. Doesn't do well on XP/2K though.

BTW- Here's the Canvas panel layout of the thing I screwed up on:

None of the knob or cap designs are really final, which is part of why I didn't really care about the height. The square ones with the rounded corners are the ones that sit too low, but even the others will likely be extra tall to make it up there with those god forsaken faders. >:(

--> Also, I'd imagine those rounded triangles will be so hard to cut for that quantity, that I'll probably end up going with something else, but they do benefit from that "directional arrow" look.

Thanks again all of you for the suggestions. :)

George

[Sasha]

George, I like your design. What is it actually? Angled slider caps are something new and seams it sits well between fingers for right hand users.

Also, I'd imagine those rounded triangles will be so hard to cut for that quantity, that I'll probably end up going with something else, but they do benefit from that "directional arrow" look.

No man, you MUST go with triangle buttons. They looks great! They are not hard to cut if you use CNC laser cutter.  ;)  I advise people to use laser cutter all the time. Checkout any express engraving service in your town and ask them to cut the acrylic for you. Most of those laser CNC machines are 25-30W so they can cut acrylic up to 10mm thick. Ir you need something thicker just combine few cutouts. You can also make your own knobs by combining several sheets to get shape you like. I`ll make a quick sketch for you to understand better. Gimme few minnutes...

[Sasha]

Here is the idea...

You need to cut several sheets of acrylic like on picture. They are all roughly forming desired shape of knob or something. Glue them together using pot shaft to make them positioned right in the center. After they are glued you can sand down those blue triangles to make it round. Now you should have final know you can use for making a mold. At least you can be sure it has perfect geometry.

If the knob you are making is same from bottom to top (cilindrical) it is even easier. You can even make all kind of chanals around it to be better to grip.

PS. I found acrylic really good for sand shaping.

This technique is used for making base for fiberglass molding, just instead of acrylic it is used styrofoam.

You have attached EPS file of Albs type of knob (the one from TK`s sequencer) ready to lasercut. It has same dimensions as original one. You can use it to make prototype for mold. Good luck

knob.rar

[Jidis]

Thanks for the tips Sasha,

I'm not sure I'm still going with the angles, as I found a compromise I like which gets more of a smooth "vintage" shape. It's sort of a fader version of a chickenhead (pointer) knob:

<-- The "knobs" are still being decided on.

You're right about the right hand fingers and the angles. That was how I got to that angled thing. ;)

I was trying to find a cap style that lends itself to more of a "pinch" type of use for fine changes on smaller controls, rather than how you work with long throw faders, where you can slide them up and down with a fingertip. When you pinch a control between your thumb and pointer finger, as you mentioned, they fit into that angle. I made a few clay angled caps with rounded edges and stuff, but didn't like the way they looked with the rest of the 90 degree layout and parts. The Saturn looking thing was the result of some symmetrical angled versions of the previous thing. They started looking more like a diamond shape, where you could pinch them with either hand. I guess these have that ring part too, which could be slid like a regular fader cap with the fingertip.

The controller is a front end for a mastering EQ plug by Universal Audio (the Precision EQ). It's a simplified parametric with some stepped controls. The bandwidth steps are only six per band, which is why I went with up/down buttons instead of a knob. The index markings on the frequency controls don't represent the number of steps on those though (there are a bunch).

If I can get through the knob making and construction, that's only the "easy" part. As Thorsten recommended to me, I'll be tossing my usual MB64 app and starting from an actual skeleton for this. Right now, I'm struggling with just the table scans to map incoming MIDI stuff to components and vice-versa. My assembler capabilities suck. :'(

In addition to the stepped controls with buttons, the "set" mode will either flash the set light or just light it up and do the same thing to any of the knobs/faders which don't match their corresponding "received" values. While in that mode, it won't output any changes made. After each of them gets readjusted to match up with those values, the corresponding light (seen below the faders & knobs) will go out (or light up??) to indicate that they're in sync with the plug's state. The A/B mode thing is actually just a parameter within the plug (the EQ can store two banks of settings and flip between them).

Take Care,

George

PS- That thing's a lot smaller than the picture makes it seem. The faders only travel about an inch and a half. The whole thing is about the size of a VHS video tape.

Also-- The panel will hopefully be etched aluminum, which might make the weird hole cuts easier (I'll be able to see exactly what area needs to be cleared away). From stuff I've tried, it's soft enough to be cut easily with small files, so I'm figuring if I put drill point marks in three corners of the triangles for a large diameter drill bit, then drill them out, I can hit the connecting lines with a file.

[henrygr]

Nice photo Jidis, he he he... ;D