Help Needed Planning My First MIDIBox SID

[dubka]

Hello everyone,

I'm going to make a "step A" MidiBox SID (20x2 lcd, rotary encoder, 6 buttons) and need to know exactly EVERYTHING that I will need so I can order it.

Okay, I'm working on getting the C64 for the SID and the PSU at the moment and my part list, from what I have read, now includes the following:

SID PCB KIT

CORE PCB KIT

DINX4

PIC18F452

6 BUTTONS

ROTARY ENCODER

20x2 LCD

SERIAL CORD

EePROM 24LC512

RIBBON CABLE

Is that all I need?  Also, am I right in thinking that you make your own Banksticks from a hacked up serial cord and an Eeprom?  AND will this lcd work and be powered properly by the MidiBox SID?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fantastic-20x2-character-high-quality-OLED-LCD-module_W0QQitemZ230142057886QQihZ013QQcategoryZ36323QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Many thanks in advance,

Martin

[Arkhan]

I too am starting to get this MIDIbox thing in order....and I decided to start with the basic control step A process too!

and oddly enough thats all the stuff I came up with too more or less...so I hope were right!

if youre looking for breadbins to pull SIDs out of, try hitting up Lemon64s forum supermarket .    Lotsa good guys there with LOTS of breadboxes....

and man I dig that LCD......it makes me wonder if there is a red on black one.  I would love to have that for mine...

[dubka]

cheers for the link chief.

I figured out that green lcd does (should) work.  Not sure about black and red...

Seen a blue and white... was pretty nice.

http://search-desc.ebay.com/HD4478-KS006-KS007-S6A006-LC798-SED127-NT388-SPLC78-MSM622-NJU640-NJU646-NJU647-UM388-T793_W0QQcatrefZC6QQflocZ1QQfromZR9QQfromZR9QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQfstypeZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQftsZ2QQga10244Z10425QQsacatZQ2d1QQsaslcZ2QQsatitleZQ28HD4478Q2aQ2cKS006Q2aQ2cKS007Q2aQ2cS6A006Q2aQ2cLC798Q2aQ2cSED127Q2aQ2cNT388Q2aQ2cSPLC78Q2aQ2cMSM622Q2aQ2cNJU640Q2aQ2cNJU646Q2aQ2cNJU647Q2aQ2cUM388Q2aQ2cT793Q2aQ29QQsspagenameZSTRKQ3aMEFSRCHQ3aSRCH

[dubka]

also, when you say "more or less" did I miss anything off my list that you have down?

cheers

[dubka]

Red LCD's...

http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/2002a-color/index.html#CFAH2002ARGHJP

8)

[Arkhan]

(that red font  / black background LCD is so hot...)

I say more or less, because I have some of the stuff in your list already, so I dont need it :)

I mostly plan on getting the kits from SmashTV's site

[NorthernLightX]

Just to comment on the LCD colour: as long as the LCD controller is compatible (check the uCApps site) it will work, no matter what the colour is.

[dubka]

Yeah.  I'm obviously not good at this sort of thing but I was a bit wary of the whole negative voltage thing of the fancy coloured lcd's.  I've just ordered a nice black/green text one (which nobody would help me with).

Seriously, what's the point in this forum even being here if nobody will offer any help?  Or is it just for "gurus" to condescend to (or simply ignore) "newbies"?

I've read this site from top to bottom until I don't know what day it is and it's really tough going for someone as inexperienced as myself.

How difficult would it be for one of you "midibox gurus" to say "yes, that's all you need"?

You know, some of us are just mere musicians, not electrical engineers.

There's a real inhospitable atmosphere on this forum.

It's like asking for help from the guy who works in the comic book shop on the simpsons!

Haha!

Martin

[seppoman]

You need a bit more patience, man! You´ve just registered to this forum yesterday, your first post is about 24 hours old! Two persons have already tried to help you, so what do you expect? Do you think insulting the general public here will get you more answers in less than 24 hours next time???

And by the way: Your list is ok.

Seppoman

[dubka]

Cheers mate.

I apologize.  I'm just on here ALL the time... I guess things aren't moving fast enough for me.  I think there's a name for that - you get it when you've been on the computer for too long and can't calm down.

It was more a response to old threads I've been reading anyway.

Thanks for confirming my list.

Martin

ps - was I right about building the banksticks from a serial cable?  And would a 24LC64 work the same?  Also, any links for how to make a circuit with vectorboard instead of a pcb...?  I'd like to make a DINx1 rather than buying a DINx4.  But haven't got a clue how it all works without a pcb.  Do you just run cable behind the board to connect the various points?

[NorthernLightX]

ps - was I right about building the banksticks from a serial cable?

You can do either that or just buy a new connector en build it in there. Info is on the bankstick page.

And would a 24LC64 work the same?

As far as I know only 24LC256 and 24LC512 are supported. Also can be found on the bankstick page.

Also, any links for how to make a circuit with vectorboard instead of a pcb...?  I'd like to make a DINx1 rather than buying a DINx4.  But haven't got a clue how it all works without a pcb.  Do you just run cable behind the board to connect the various points?

Yes, working with veroboard includes running cable on the back of the board. But if this is your first try: please just buy the DINX4 PCB, it could save you a lot of work and the PCB is only 5 euro or so.

Cheers,  Alex

[seppoman]

you get it when you've been on the computer for too long and can't calm down.

No problem, I know that state ;)

I also recommend using a DINx4 PCB - it´s just 5 Euros and especially if you´re a newbie saves your day.

Then I noticed that you haven´t listed the extra parts needed when using the Commodore PSU:

http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_4xsid_c64_psu_optimized.pdf

Another advice: A new version of the SID software is under development atm. and this will require a newer PIC, the 18F4685. So better buy this one instead of the 452. There´s also a current version of the software for the 4685, so with this you can start right now and update later without having to buy a new chip.

Seppoman

[dubka]

Thanks Alex.

I might be going insane here but... It doesn't seem to actually say "use the connector of a serial cable".  I just deduced that from the picture.  And another question comes up - of the 8 connections involved, 5 of them share one leg of the chip.  How does one make that connection?  Are all 5 cables just hanging to the one leg with a lump of solder?

Also, if I use the DINx4 am I still connecting to J1, J3 and J4?  Because on the x4 J3 and 4 these seem to be running from 2 separate IC's rather than just the one (as on the DINx1).  Do I only put one IC on the board?  Or 2?  Or all 4 but use only 2 IC's?

And another thing, the DIN page doesn't list the SID under "compatability".  This all adds to my confusion.

Martin

[dubka]

Cheers for the tip Seppoman.

Just when I thought I had a hold of things... this.

I was under the impression I was to salvage all parts for using the old power supply from the discarded c64...?

I don't understand that image AT ALL.  Is this circuit built on veroboard?

Is this needed because of the control surface?  And am I right thinking that it also involves losing the audio input?

Martin

[TK.]

And another thing, the DIN page doesn't list the SID under "compatability".  This all adds to my confusion.

removed hint (prehistoric comment from 2003)

No more time to answer all your questions - sorry, I'm an ignorant guru.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[dubka]

Sorry Thorsten, I didn't understand any of that...

But just to clarify - I never said anyone was ignorant.  Other than myself.

Martin

[TK.]

What I mean: I just have removed the comment about the compatibility from my webpage, because it is obsolete. I wrote this 4 years ago, where most of my projects were running on a PIC16F877 with a totally different firmware.

Ok, I see that I'm not the right person who could help you...

Ignorant: it seems that this word has a different meaning in english. Thats funny. Not sure how many times I wrote it for a totally different purpose. ;-)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[dubka]

Perhaps a good time to explain myself as I seem to have upset a few people here.

I have just finished producing (and playing bass/keys on) an album on which I ended up using QuadraSID and Gameboy, integrated into a live band, sound quite heavily.  As a foot note to anyone who is interested - I've discovered Wayfar MidiNES is not A=440 but, suprisingly enough the humble Gameboy is.

Anyway, when I was looking around for these sort of sounds, I stumbled across www.ucapps.de but didn't have the time (or ability) to realise my own MidiBox SID.  BUT after hearing the difference I am now wholeheartedly determined to complete one for future projects.  QuadraSID just sounds thin and hollow in comparison.  To me, the MidiBox SID really just seems too good to be true and the more I learn the closer I am to realising one of these amazing, coveted little synths, of which I am so jealous.

So here I am, a musician attempting the daunting task of making his first synthesizer.

Pleased to meet you and sorry for any ruffled feathers.

Martin

[Arkhan]

The reason quadra sid sucks is because SID emulation blows.  I will always opt for using the real chip instead.

But yes I too am a musician (and computer programmer), NOT an engineer!  sooo youre not alone in staring at these diagrams/plans and going "duhruh?"

...I think youve one upped me with this bank stick thing.

you cant just BUY banksticks?...

[NorthernLightX]

Wow, so much questions...

It doesn't seem to actually say "use the connector of a serial cable". I just deduced that from the picture.

Do what suits you right, both are possible. You can even put the backstick inside the case on a piece of veroboard and don't hassle with the serial conenctor.

And another question comes up - of the 8 connections involved, 5 of them share one leg of the chip. How does one make that connection? Are all 5 cables just hanging to the one leg with a lump of solder?

That is because all those pins are connected to ground. You indeed solder all those legs to the same pin on the connector.

Also, if I use the DINx4 am I still connecting to J1, J3 and J4? Because on the x4 J3 and 4 these seem to be running from 2 separate IC's rather than just the one (as on the DINx1). Do I only put one IC on the board? Or 2? Or all 4 but use only 2 IC's?

the DIN boards are designed to be daisy-chained. It is possible to cascase 4 DINX4 boards. One DINX4 board even uses cascading of 4 chips. It is possible to use one DINX4 board and just stuff one or 2 IC's, it will work, it is designed that way, no worries.

And another thing, the DIN page doesn't list the SID under "compatability". This all adds to my confusion.

[Therezin]

I don't understand that image AT ALL.  Is this circuit built on veroboard?

I made a build-up guide when i built the optimised PSU for my SID - it's at http://www.danielprice.org.uk/synth-diy/sid_2.htm. Looking back, by God does that page need a redesign...

[dubka]

Thanks again.

All those answers bring up a few more questions.  Haha!

Okay, what's a "jumper"?

What do you mean by "stuff"?

And where is the list of the extra parts needed?  I don't understand all the symbols yet.

Cheers,

Martin

[NorthernLightX]

Thanks again.

All those answers bring up a few more questions.  Haha!

Okay, what's a "jumper"?

What do you mean by "stuff"?

And where is the list of the extra parts needed?  I don't understand all the symbols yet.

Cheers,

Martin

A jumper is a wire connecting 2 points on a pcb, usually to cross tracks without touching them. A jumper is also a little plastic thing with metal inside that fits exactly over 2 SIL pins, like on computer equipment. In my post I meant the latter one.

To "stuff" is slang (I think) for mounting equipment on PCB. I meant you can make a full DINX4 board with all the sockets for the ICs, and then only insert one IC in the first socket and leave the other 3 empty.

[dubka]

Ah, seen... that's london slang for "I see"  ;-)

So, where do I get the plastic jumpers from?  Do they have a proper name?

And when the schematic reads "7805 not stuffed" does that mean you have to remove the IC and insert a capacitor in it's place?

Martin

[NorthernLightX]

Ah, seen... that's london slang for "I see"  ;-)

So, where do I get the plastic jumpers from?  Do they have a proper name?

And when the schematic reads "7805 not stuffed" does that mean you have to remove the IC and insert a capacitor in it's place?

Martin

I think the proper name for the plastic jumpers is "Jumper"  ;D - no seriously! You can get them from an electronics shop or salvage from old PC equipment.

if you're referring to the optimized PSU schematic you indeed do not mount the 7805, but instead solder a piece of wire (cut-off leg from a used resistor will do fine) between the holes for pin 1 and 3.