[blog] SIDSt4ti0n Photoblog

[FLD]

Just finished soldering all the modules. Looks like it took 3 days to solder them all :)

And now my table looks like this:

So now its time to test all the modules and atleast all the cores seem to be working and sending the MIDI messages. Today i´m gonna go get the USB MIDI Interface cause the one i have really sux. So today i´m gonna be testing all the modules and maybe tomorrow i can start wiring them like this: mbhp_4xsid_c64_psu_optimized.pdf

Man i wish i had one of those crimping tools so i could make good connectors :\

I mean i got some Harwins Crimp Connectors but using them with needlenose does not really work so well...

Already broke some of them, which is kinda sad because they are REALLY expensive ;(

Oh yea and i also have one question. Do i need to have a BankStick for the MIOS?

[DavidBanner]

you'll only need the bankstick to save banks

MIOS works fine without the Bankstick attached

[NorthernLightX]

Too bad you didn't look at the schematic for the optimized PSU before you finished all the Core modules; you would have noticed that the 7805 regulators need to be removed from your Cores to use it.

You also stuffed 4 optocouplers, I think you only need the opto stuffed in the master core, not in the slaves.

Hope this prevents problems for you.

[FLD]

Too bad you didn't look at the schematic for the optimized PSU before you finished all the Core modules; you would have noticed that the 7805 regulators need to be removed from your Cores to use it.

You also stuffed 4 optocouplers, I think you only need the opto stuffed in the master core, not in the slaves.

Hope this prevents problems for you.

But they are needed when you separately test the modules. I'm gonna remove them before i make the wiring.

At the moment i haven't been able to upload the MIOS, because it looks like this:

Starting upload of mios_v1_9e_pic18f452.hex

Hex file contains code in MIOS range, forcing reboot!

Received Upload Request

Sending block 00000400-000004FF

Error: Received unexpected Upload Request

Sending block 00000500-000005FF

Error: Received unexpected Upload Request

Sending block 00000500-000005FF

Error: Received unexpected Upload Request

Sending block 00000500-000005FF

Error: Received unexpected Upload Request

Sending block 00000500-000005FF

Error: Received unexpected Upload Request

Sending block 00000500-000005FF

Error: Received unexpected Upload Request

Sending block 00000500-000005FF

Process stopped by user

The PIC just keeps seding those upload requests when i start the upload..

I don't know what is the problem but heres what i have tryed:

Tryed with 3 different MIDI interfaces and they all gave that same

Tryed with another core modules and still the same problem

I did some debug tests from here:

http://www.ucapps.de/howto_debug_midi.html

Test IN1.. Checked

Test IN2.. Checked

Test IN3.. The led is always on (no flicker)

Test IN4.. Led is still on

Test IN5.. Led flickers when i send MIDI Data

Test IN6.. -Not Done Yet-

Test IN7.. -Not Done Yet-

Test INOUT1.. -Not Done Yet-

[TK.]

The PIC doesn't receive MIDI data, and therefore sends upload requests periodically.

It makes sense to continue with the remaining input tests - TEST IN6/7 help you to determine, if the optocoupler is working.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[TK.]

I just had a look on the picture of your core module, the colour code of R5 is wrong.

5,6k is green-blue-red

If not available, you could also take a 4,7k resistor (yellow-purple-red)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[FLD]

I just had a look on the picture of your core module, the colour code of R5 is wrong.

5,6k is green-blue-red

If not available, you could also take a 4,7k resistor (yellow-purple-red)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Oh wow, the color code of my R5's are Blue,Green,Gold,Gold and reichelt said its 5,6k :D

I just trusted them blindly

Well anyways i now changed the resistors to green blue reds but the problem still remains exactly the same :\

[NorthernLightX]

Could the problem be in the wiring of the midi plugs? I did that wrong the first time too. You write you checked them, but as you also wrote you checked the value of R5 which turned out to be wrong, maybe you also misread the plug polarity, or maybe you connected ground on the MIDI in port.

[FLD]

Could the problem be in the wiring of the midi plugs? I did that wrong the first time too.

MIDI In is only 2 wires :p

And i have tested them both ways :\

I Guess i do those optocoupler tests now

[NorthernLightX]

MIDI In is only 2 wires :p

And i have tested them both ways :\

I Guess i do those optocoupler tests now

Maybe you tried this already, but is the cabling to your midi interface ok? miibox in - pc out, pc in - midibox out? And are the cables not broken? You could measure with a multimeter in ohm position.

[FLD]

Ok i installed some drivers and put the interface on Advanced Mode and Wooow it started working :D

[FLD]

Haha this is getting really funny, because its seems everytime i solve a problem there is already a new problem waiting :P

Ok i uploaded the MIOS and Sidplayer to my Core and i have done the wiring like this: mbhp_4xsid_c64_psu_optimized.pdf Now when i push Play from the ASID i just hear this "ZRRRRRRRRRR" noise and i can even control the noise by raising the speed of the song and the noise gets faster. And in JsynthLib (with SID application) when i turn a knob i can hear some high pitched noise.

I tryed with 2 8580 Chips and they both have the same problem :\

[NorthernLightX]

Haha this is getting really funny, because its seems everytime i solve a problem there is already a new problem waiting :P

Ok i uploaded the MIOS and Sidplayer to my Core and i have done the wiring like this: [url=http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_4xsid_c64_psu_optimized.pdf]mbhp_4xsid_c64_psu_optimized.pdf Now when i push Play from the ASID i just hear this "ZRRRRRRRRRR" noise and i can even control the noise by raising the speed of the song and the noise gets faster. And in JsynthLib (with SID application) when i turn a knob i can hear some high pitched noise.

I tryed with 2 8580 Chips and they both have the same problem :\

Did you already ground your inputs on the SID boards like I told you? And did you eliminate the groundloop?

[FLD]

Did you already ground your inputs on the SID boards like I told you? And did you eliminate the groundloop?

Yea i connected both of the Input pins to the 5VDC Blue wire you can see in the diagram, But it didn't help.

I now also tested with another SID module and the Problem remains the same :\

[stryd_one]

I thought you tested it with another SID chip?

[FLD] 9:52 pm: i changed the sid and same thing

[FLD]

I thought you tested it with another SID chip?

No i tested with different SID chips and with different Modules

Basicly i have cross tested every module and they all share the same problem: Nothing but noise comes out of the sid when i try playing something :\

[midiboxxer]

Have you messured the voltage at the SID chip? Should be 9V.

Also check the ground connection a second time.

Check C1 and C2. Should be 22nF.

Best regards

Markus

[NorthernLightX]

Have you messured the voltage at the SID chip? Should be 9V.

Also check the ground connection a second time.

Check C1 and C2. Should be 22nF.

Best regards

Markus

9v only when using 8580 or 6582. 6581 requires 12v.

22nF is the optimal value, other values do not introduce noise or the problems FLD is describing.

FLD: if all your modules are having the same problem it must either be a problem with the core, or you have made an error when stuffing the shiftregisters or the wiring. Try the SID interconnection test program and post the results please.

And not unimportant: which version of the SID application are you using?

[edit]

I read you are using the sidplayer application so the above question is not aplicable. You could try to upload the standard SID application and see if you can play notes from MIOS studio.

[/edit]

[FLD]

All the voltages are correct and i have 470pF Styroflex caps for the 8580's

I did the mbsid_interconnection_test and i didn't get the 5V from any of the ports. Only the last #14: Pin CS# = 0V was true

But im not sure if i used the "right" ground i mean what is the ground anyways? Isn't it minus?

The ground that i used in my tests is the blue wire in this setup mbhp_4xsid_c64_psu_optimized.pdf I also have both pins of the Audio In connected to that Blue Wire

Im using the Latest MIOS and i tryed to play with midibox_sid_v1_7303b. And the next thing to do is to try it once more with all modules and cores :\

[midiboxxer]

Have you checked the 2 additional isolated wires on the cupperside of your core?

Because on an earlier picture I think it was on side 2 of this topic, I can´t see them.

Greetz

[FLD]

Have you checked the 2 additional isolated wires on the cupperside of your core?

Because on an earlier picture I think it was on side 2 of this topic, I can´t see them.

Greetz

No, i completely forgot those :o

But now that i added them and tested again they didnt seem to have any effect on the interconnection_test but now the sound that the SID is making is different. Its this very high pitched silent noise. And it changes a little when i turn knobs and stuff like that. But the point is that it does not work :<

[NorthernLightX]

All the voltages are correct and i have 470pF Styroflex caps for the 8580's

22nF are better for the filtercaps. from the original Commodore schematic, 8580 uses 6.8NF and 6581 uses 470pF, but for both the 22nF are the best according to multiple sources.

I did the mbsid_interconnection_test and i didn't get the 5V from any of the ports. Only the last #14: Pin CS# = 0V was true

that indicates a problem with the interconnection of your core module and both shiftregisters of the SID board. Things to check:

- cabling between the core and SID (are the right pins connected?)

- orientation of your shiftregisters (are they seated the right way around?)

But im not sure if i used the "right" ground i mean what is the ground anyways? Isn't it minus?

Ground is never minus, just ground. it took me some time to understand too, just check my older posts, there's some good reading there when more skilled midiboxers try to explain it to me ;)

The ground rail is all the pins marked Vss in the schematic, and the large plain on the bottom of the PCBs.

The ground that i used in my tests is the blue wire in this setup mbhp_4xsid_c64_psu_optimized.pdf I also have both pins of the Audio In connected to that Blue Wire

The audio in does not need to be connected that way, just place a jumper over the 2 pins, that is enough, and can easily be removed if you want to use it later on. The way you did it is not wrong, but much more work than needed. One of the two pins from the audio in is ground already on the PCB.

Im using the Latest MIOS and i tryed to play with midibox_sid_v1_7303b. And the next thing to do is to try it once more with all modules and cores :\

Have youn tried it with just one core and one SID connected, or with all 4 of them together? Which PIC version are you using?

I would suggest you check as much as I wrote in this post, and then post a picture of your current setup, topside AND bottomside.

[FLD]

The shiftregisters are correct way and the cable is conducting and in the right pins

I have used the minus wire as a ground (Blue wire in mbhp_4xsid_c64_psu_optimized.pdf)... Maybe this could cause the SID to not make sound at all?

I'm currently just trying with one core and one sid, because i wanna test them all individually and see if there are some problems. Its easier to debug them one at the time

I'm gonna post a picture of my setup at least tomorrow when there is day light. But i will try if i can get some decent pictures at night. Who knows, maybe if i use lots of sensitivity and put some exposure time and maybe the pics will look good :p

[NorthernLightX]

I have used the minus wire as a ground (Blue wire in mbhp_4xsid_c64_psu_optimized.pdf)... Maybe this could cause the SID to not make sound at all?

there is no minus wire, but the blue wire is ground, so you did it right. That cannot be the problem. Did you also solder the clock wire from the core to the SID?

I'm currently just trying with one core and one sid, because i wanna test them all individually and see if there are some problems. Its easier to debug them one at the time

That is the best method indeed.

I'm gonna post a picture of my setup at least tomorrow when there is day light. But i will try if i can get some decent pictures at night. Who knows, maybe if i use lots of sensitivity and put some exposure time and maybe the pics will look good :p

Just use a flash and the auto setting from your camera, the pictures need to be clear, beautiful is not needed here ;)

[FLD]

Ok now i have successfully tested two of my 6581 modules and they worked. Atleast i could play them with MIOS Studio!! WooHoo!!

But with JSynth i could only modify the sound not get any patches to play. So i wonder what's with that? But anyways they seem to work and produce nice oldschool sound! :)

I´m still trying to get the rest of the SID modules to work. I have two 8580 modules that i have been trying to get to work but they just don't seem to pass the interconnection test. The problem is that when i´m doing the interconnection test they completely fail it. Both of the modules seem to have different problems. Another module (the one that does not have audio wire soldered) gives 7,5Volts to the pin that is selected at the test and the pins that aren't selected display over 12volts. Another module (one with the audio cable) does not display any voltage from any of the pins.

I tryed to look for shorts at the copper side of the boards and did little scratching, didn't help. Then i heated some solder joints to remove any cold solders. I also tryed changing the register chips, and that didn't help either. The problems still remain same.

So here are some pictures of the SID modules that are causing me trouble

My horrible testing are :p

8580 Module with audio wire:

8580 Module without audio wire:

Together <3