Jidis

Alright Jason.... Times Up! 8) Did you get any advice yet, or decide what sort of lights you were looking at? Couldn't help but wonder. Take Care, George PS- Since it's the "off-season", you might be able to rent some parts from that light-up "New Year's" ball they drop every year in New York over here. ;D

Alex & Wilba, Thanks! Yeah, the "tolerance" part was actually about the transformer (wall-wart) part of it. I figured it was like Wilba said, and they were just spec'd for some "pre-regulator" headroom. For instance I've got some 9's which are fairly close to nine volts, then these other giant ones, who put out 12 or 13. They're also higher wattage, which would make sense with the part about the current-related "drop". I appreciate the tip on that. I guess that means with these big-ass ones powering something like a core, they're probably knocking the crap out of the 7805, since the overall load won't take the input supply down all that much. I'll try to be a little more realistic on my xformer choices. Alex's part about the "split" input supply is exactly what I meant. I have a tendency to make boards with not only my buttons, lights, or pots on them, but the whole shift register/mux chain to go with them. I was wondering what I'd need to do if I just landed a 7805, the filter caps and a rectifier on the bigger boards for that stuff, and just took the data/select stuff to and from the core. Seems like it would be easier on the main board, and I could use smaller (or no) sinks on them. What considerations would be made on wiring the boards like that? I guess all the grounds have to be tied, but what should I plan for, as far as keeping the proper voltage and current for each of them? Thanks Again! George EDIT-- Just went back and saw the additions to Alex's power supply post. Looks tasty! I guess that's sort of the same thing I was just asking about, only he's got different regulator values. -- So does this mean a parallel split to multiple regulator circuits is OK?

Look into that first. Seems people have started "mass producing" them. You can get ones on eBay now with USB, parallel, and a bunch of the optional adapter sockets on-board, for less than the parts probably cost. There was a thread here recently on it. It's almost not worth thinking about making one anymore. I thought I had checked that app, and either my hardware didn't support it, or IC-Prog didn't. ??? I've got a PICall or something around here, that used P16Pro in DOS. I thought it was a TAIT-style, but I haven't used it in a while. It was relatively simple looking, so it may not be the right one. There's also a PCB that came with a book here (called an "el-cheapo", I believe). I'll look into that one too. The serial book uses the old PIC, so if I try any of that stuff, and there isn't a code/pin/clock-compatible current model, I'm probably not into trying to port the apps at this stage. Thanks! George

Hey, it's my post, and I don't give a s**t! ;D Glad you made it through that zapping as well Jaicen! The tape deck that hit me was sort of the same deal (messing with something in the vicinity of the xformer). They should paint the primary side of those things bright red or something. BTW- That guy with the microwave also dropped a 17 or 19 inch monitor "face down" on the pavement at his work a while back, but it didn't blow up or do anything interesting. (it was supposedly "unintentional") Take Care, George

Thanks here for that tip as well! I've been doing pretty good on heat sinking here, but I think I'll bump down to that too, if I can find something. What's the deal with the high tolerance on some of these things anyway? I've got some nice, heavy, high-amperage ones, which I thought would be safe, but things rated for 9V will put off 12 or 13, and 12's I've got can do up to 15 or 16. Can you check the regulator inputs to see what they actually do in-circuit, or is it exactly the same on that side? (-my basic electronics theory went down the toilet about a year after leaving the classroom) Also, I notice you recommending an AC supply. Any preference there, even with the rectifier sections? Lastly, if we had a larger d.out board with all our lights on it, can you hang more than one regulator/filter circuit off the main input supply for each board, if the pin 2's are tied, or is that asking for trouble? Sorry to tack a bunch of questions on Villadon's post, but I guess he may want to know them as well. :) George

Moebius, Thanks! I haven't been getting in much box time lately, as I've moved my electronics crap out of the studio to keep from wasting my whole night not doing any music stuff. ;) Yeah, on the JDM, I just didn't know if the supply lines with a JDM were weaker or something, since it was "port powered", and if it may share any pins with the core, while it was doing an in-circuit deal, making it more reliable. Doesn't sound that way. :'( There's a Willem here, which I'll probably use for the more frequent stuff. I'd really like to get away from things that don't use ZIF sockets as much as possible, but I guess even the core will have a regular one, so ICSP will be a good thing. I will however, probably try to find a means of dip-switching the connection somehow, so I don't have to keep re-jumpering,etc. I did a bunch of MIDI crap on an 18-pin 16F84 a while back, and it was moved from programmer to breadboard so many times, I'm surprised it still had legs. I'm looking toward being able to work with a few different ones also. My books don't deal with 40pin PIC's, and they're a bit large for me right now. I'll probably do a common connection for ICSP on all my test boards. BTW---> I think I asked before, but this one serial book deals with a 16C54 a bunch. I've run into it before, and it appears to require some weird programming method, as do some of the other older "mid-range" PIC's. Something sounded like it might be an application issue. Does anyone know what needs to be used for those? - Much Thanks! George

I think Villadon may have become addicted to that "smell". ;D Take Care PS- Smelled one myself a few days ago, but haven't needed a fix. (...yet)

Hey again Jason, I'm pretty sure Thorsten (TK) is the one you want, if he's got time and runs across this. There's still probably some detail missing on the digits though (like the way they connect, common pins, power requirements,etc.). This is assuming they are similar to the segmented LED digits, but with those sizes, I'm not too sure what type you're talking about. I've never had to think about this, but I know the MIDIMon gets all those time values from constantly updated variables, and throws them to the corresponding digits of the display, at the proper scan rate intervals. You'd have to learn your way around MIOS and the MM app, but I'd guess there's a way you could just grab what's in the minute/second variables and send that to your four digits, rather than running through all eight. There'd likely be some other stuff which would need bypassing too, like the app would need to know the non-standard D.OUT chip config, and the hours/frames or whatever would need to be stripped from the stream going to the D.OUT shift register board, so it would load your four digits with the correct data. Of course, if you're not using common-pin, rapidly scanned, segmented digits, that whole idea's out the window. ??? At least you know you've already got the digit data sitting in some nice neat variables, waiting for whatever. :) Good Luck, George

Gadzooks Jason! What are you making a roadside billboard or something? ;D Hopefully, Thorsten or someone can get in here, if you're looking at the replacement of the regular 595 chips for a higher output (unless you can amp the individual signals after the registers). Sounds complicated. If anything, they're probably going to need to know the actual LED modules you're trying to use, and what their requirements are. ??? That size sounds weird. Are you talking individual digit or total dimensions? The whole thing would seem too tall for it's width. Take Care! George (another MIDIMon MTC display fan) PS- You ever need any "pre-done" displays with the regular 15mm high digits, let me know. Maybe we could trade for something. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/Jidis/GreenMTC.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/Jidis/timebuttons.jpg

Stryd_One I got the blanks too, but Acrobat 5 specified an error. I had to get the Chinese font pack from here: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/acrrasianfontpack.html I can see the PDF now. :)

Thanks tw3! That's a nice resource site, even beyond the cool looking matrix. I wonder if those bright LED lightbar things would do decent overhead lighting of these 2x40's? It looks like they light a numeric LED display in the picture, but I guess that thing's already lit up anyway. I'm looking into something like that, or maybe bright "side view" LED lighting. George

The more the merrier! ;D I was just waking up, and needed something to do while I drank all my coffee. I'm not up on what's usually coming in the kits anyway, so the the details on the xtal and the caps might help. :) BTW- If anybody "in the know" should read this: What exactly are the correct "styles" of smaller caps for different applications, or is there an "order" to some of them quality-wise? I've got a heck of a selection here on digital cards and boards, as well as some new ones (mostly regular "brown" ceramics). Also, is there any accurate means of guessing what a given cap is made of, by the package style (beyond the brown ceramic disc ones)? A good link with pictures would suffice (or save some typing), but I've still got the question of which ones for what (analog or digital filtering,etc.)? Lastly, what in the Sam Hell is this big black box I've had here for all this time? I think it came in a DigiKey order, long ago, when I made a "Greg" board. It says it's a .82uF UV "box type", and it's part number is P4646-ND. It was in the parts list at uCApps (or it was back then).

Meef, Small cap numbering is weird, but you'll see a lot of the same values, so you eventually get familiar with what "number" is what. I think the values are in picofarads (.000,000,000,000). The first two are the significant ones, and that third one is the number of "zeros" on the end. So, a 104 is 10, with 4 zero's or .000,000,100,000. The decrementing values to the right of the decimal are milli, micro, nano, pico or m,u,n,p (the groups of three zero's). Sometimes you also see ones with just a 2 digit number or something, maybe with a letter. I think they're all in pico's. I'm looking at a print of the Core schematic pdf here, along with that construction page at uCApps. Looks like the cap numbering may be different (maybe from the two added bypass caps). C6 on my print is the 330nanofarad (334). Should be near the big-ass 2200uF cap (BTW- the electrolytic's are usually the large values, like microfarads, and have the actual values printed on them, along with their polarity). Looks like the 100nF's are the two small bypass caps which were added (under the core). I'm not sure if Smash or anyone has gotten them into permanent locations now though. There's also a 100nF(104) in parallel with the 10uF (electrolytic) near the regulator's output. On this pdf, it's C3, but on the site it's C4 and the 10uF beside it is C3. Make sure you get the negative sides of those two electrolytics tied to ground (should be the center pin on the 7805). As Thorsten says, always go by the schematic. If you're getting wrong numbering on the caps, just use that and trace back to another PIC pin or something to make sure all the stuff's where it belongs. The 10uF and 2200uF are the only ones that have to go in a certain direction. Yes, it looks like the crystal on a Core I've got here is inside the socket, and perpendicular to it. Top or bottom shouldn't matter, as long as it's got a solid connection and isn't touching any traces or pads. The short ones will fit under the PIC (my socket was shaved out a bit on the inside for it). Looks like the taller can in the uCApps pictures is underneath. I'd stick electrical tape or some insulator under, or around the crystal if you do that. You may have been given extra parts the kit, but make certain the ones in the schematic are all present and accounted for on the board (along with the two 100nF bypassers), and the values and polarity are right. Don't leave any empty holes. If there's any part missing, you should be able to find one on a broken something somewhere around the house and desolder it. (No offense to the kit dealers. I know you guys are extra careful ;)) I'd check all the traces extra close, if you think you may have bent that PCB. Stick a multimeter, set to "continuity" on both sides of the "suspect" area and make sure it's not cracked (not sure if you'd have to bend the board again to really check that). If you need to fix it, or want to be safe, you can either bring a long, uncut leg of your component, all the way through the hole, and neatly fold it under the board, in the path of the trace (if it reaches), and solder it down. You can also take a piece of small solid copper wire (maybe tinned with solder), and bend it into the shape of an "L", with the short half being long enough to bridge the trace. Then you can use the long leg to hold it onto the board where you want it, and tack it down with some solder (don't get burned). I use one of those two armed alligator clip doohickeys with the heavy base to hold it, but you could also tape it to the board, and bend it into a shape to make contact. After it's done, you can snip off the long part with some toenail clippers to clean it up. Sorry if you already knew any of that (looks like you may have done the leg-bridge method). Hope something in there helps! :) George

Smash, If you or anyone else has got a few minutes: I've got a projection TV here which has gotten really nasty looking over the past few years. I've considered popping the back and seeing if there are any trim pots to fine-tweak the alignment, that you can't do from the menu. It's one of those types where they give you that onscreen white crosshair thing, and you move the blue and red crosshairs until the whole thing is white. It's gotten to where you can adjust the sides, top and bottom perfectly with that, but each of them don't seem very well calibrated to each other, so you can't get them all. I usually try to get the cleanest picture I can around the middle, but it's still more clear on one side. A repairman made a house call a while back, when it went black, and it looked like it was pretty easy for him to get to the adjustment panel without ripping the whole TV apart. Before he left, I mentioned that the bottom of the screen was sort of "fuzzy" and he quickly tweaked something while asking me if it had cleared up. I'm thinking if he had more time, he probably could've gotten the whole thing perfect. I'll thoroughly read up on the procedure and ALL precautions beforehand, and if it seems too difficult or dangerous, I won't touch it. If you've ever had to do something like that, let me know if it sounds like something an "electro-doofus" might actually be able to tackle. I remember how, with the cassette decks and open-reels I've aligned here, you have to start at the way back and work toward the later procedures, because they all depend on one another for reference. If it comes to that, I probably won't touch it, as I'm sure it would involve video test gear. FWIW, the tech did not appear to be equipped with any significant amount of gear, and I don't recall a service manual. I'm figuring the test points and pots are well labeled, and the board(s) seemed modular (IIRC, he pulled one out). He did know a heck of a lot about them and was fairly familiar with that type. The "black screen" failure was supposedly from some rotten caps which died and, I think, took an op-amp or something with them on their way out. I'm guessing there may be more of them drying out or leaking, since they're all about the same "vintage". I've got an ESR meter here, but if they're all hard to get at, I may not check any. I may post this to the sci.elec.repair newsgroup or something, to see if I can find someone who's serviced a bunch first, but none of those guys will usually encourage anyone "unnameized" to mess with that stuff. I guess they can't really know how careful any particular person will be, or whether they'll really follow the safety precautions. A few years back, I also found a local tech who opened a computer shop. He knows the hell out of CRT's, LCD's, power supplies, and wireless communications, and tipped me on the shielding of my isolation cabinets when I met him. I think he was an Army or Airforce tech. I may hit him on the TV thing as well, but I try to only bug him for important stuff, so he doesn't get fed up with me. I also try to buy parts from him when I can, but he'll very rarely accept any money. Funny thing is, he's sort of "new" to the whole OS/software/drivers thing. He usually deals with new parts and throws away lots of "older" stuff (older being PII/P3 gen.). I'll print your part about the Donkey Kong monitor and put it in my wallet, in case I end up going out there. He knows some "weird" stuff. Thanks! George

Smash, --> I'm sticking a video alignment (television) post in the miscellaneous forum, if you or anyone wants to check it. I thought it was too "off topic" for this 2x40 LCD subject. 8) I can't believe you were even able to force yourself back to working on any of that sort of stuff, after that finger shock. Glad you got through that alright! Cool to see you do woodwork. I've been doing that for years, and do all my studio cabinetry. It's nice to always have exactly what you want "furniture-wise". My shop's a bit small for a table saw, and I've learned to do most work on a big radial, and carry my sheet stuff out the door to some sawhorses for longer cuts with a circular. I've got a really big router table inside with a jointing fence to square-up and "de-splinter" the edges afterward. The R.A.S. can get sort of scary on small stuff and rips though, as you've not only got your work "trapped" between the saw and the table, but you've got the yoke/guard/blade,etc., all sort of blocking your view. It's got some pretty good "kickback potential". That's the only tool that really may want to kill me here. I made a small table saw for a circular, which I can take outside for long, skinny rips, but it's sort of hard to set up and clamp to something, so I don't use it much. I'm thinking of grabbing one of those little rinky-dink benchtop table saws and making an indoor/outdoor cart for it, along with my planer (that's usually done outside too). Lots of my stuff requires solid wood edge banding, which is usually pretty thin and made of nice dangerous hardwood, so a small narrow table saw with a guide jig and some external feed supports should be a lot safer. The radial shot this small piece of oak at me once and ripped my right hand wide open, requiring some stitches: It once shot a short 2x4 or something, over my shoulder, into the cinder block rear wall of the shop, which sounded like it came out of a cannon. Had to sit that one out for a bit too. For me, the worst part is immediately after that stuff, where you start bleeding really bad, and have to try to determine just how bad you actually got hurt. I usually just cross my remaining fingers, wrap up the damaged item, and run off to make somebody else look at it for me. I'm usually OK, if I can keep sharp blades and avoid my usual "in a hurry" dumb crap, like using tools with piles of junk sitting on their tables, cutting stuff that's too small, and not taking time to set up proper guards or hold-downs. I think they should put safety stickers on some of that stuff, with a picture of a cup of coffee with one of those red circle/slash "no" signs over it. Like you, I've often wondered why I still have all these fingers. ;) Here's a friend of mine, who keeps a dedicated microwave in his garage for the sole purpose of blowing things up. ( "Linux" guy ...go figure :P ) I wasn't around for this, but I think it was a cassette tape. ??? Be Safe, George PS- These posts are making me wonder if there's anybody in here who actually hasn't been shocked by this s**t. ;D

You haven't progressed until you've "smelled" an LED. (a good day here as well :)) George

Yeah, the ones I've got have separate pins for them, so it's about the same as having separate buttons and lights anyway.

Here's another good one for people who like feeding voltages into random crap: Just out of curiousity, I tapped my 5V Core supply across the two empty "pin 15/16" locations on one of those 2x40's today. The first time, I guess the polarity was backwards, so it did nothing but reset the PIC and reboot MIOS. I flipped the leads and hit it again. Unless I'm losing my mind, I'd swear I actually saw this thing light up (not the LCD, unfortunately). It only did it for a second, and I removed the supply a few times to see it again and make sure it did. I think I got it once more, and I'm pretty sure it was indeed from the pot, and not the bottom of the LCD. Looked like just on one side, and sort of weak. I even tilted the Core around, to make sure it wasn't a glimmer of reflection. Is there any possible way you could get that from a pot, or make that resistive track heat up and glow? I figure it probably already had 5V somewhere. I checked the supply pins to make sure they were live first by tapping a 5mm LED on them (with no current limiter). It lit quickly and made a small "snap" noise. I immediately remembered VilladonEnt's smell thing and held it against my nose. --- oh what a stink (thanks for the tip ;)) George ( remember this next time anyone wonders why I'm able to ruin a bootloader.) Here's the type of pot that lit (sorry for the crappy picture). I think it was the contrast one, and it still appears to work OK.

Don't worry, the horn thing was extra careful. I think I may have even hid behind something.8) Power was applied from a remote switch on a power strip, and there was no metal contact by me. I think I had tried feeding other (lower) power to it first, but couldn't get anything. IIRC the existing leads looked like they would've taken something heavy, but I really have no idea. I don't think it had anything resembling a "voice coil" or diaphragm of any sort. More like a big doorbell-type mechanism or something. Interesting looking creature it was though. Looked like it had a "pull-chain" and hinged arm so maybe it was mounted up high on a wall or something, like a lunchbreak or shift-change alert in a factory. Had an industrial looking red paint job too. It's shaped sort of like a Tuba, and it looks like it might accommodate a speaker at the back. I may stick a midrange driver in it and mic it up in a hallway or something for a "megaphone'ish" effect. George PS- Got the fool shocked out of me by being too careless around the primary side of a cassette deck's xformer many many years ago. Not likely to happen again soon (knock on wood). I've heard of that thing where you get "stuck" to the supply (terrifying thought). This thing just stopped my clock for a few seconds and made me jump back about three feet. Had to stand still for about a minute to "recover" and realize what just happened. I do admit, I need to watch my ass around CRT's a bit more though. I hear horror stories about them every time I go looking for info. I still haven't been able to get that "spark/crack" from grounding the suctioned clip thing, but I hear many of them discharge themselves now anyway.

If you mean the L4042, that's the number he had, but it covers that whole batch in the PDF. There are actually longer numbers which don't show on the LCD: L404200J000S L404221J000S L4042B1J000S L404200L000S L4042B1L000S That other weird number with the W&V,etc. I don't think is "model related". I'm pretty sure the description Smash gave of the gap and all is what these are, but hey, 99 cents for two? I'll light a candle and pretend. ;) I want to go see what the heck is in an inverter. (DIY?) I wouldn't mind trying that EL Foil junk anyway (sounds too weird to pass up). I'll probably try to hook one of these up tomorrow to see how they look, but we've all seen the black on gray I guess. :-\ George

Thanks Guys! @Stryd_One - Yeah, there are a few in the datasheet (3 or 4 different styles I think). This one of course is none of them. ;D Smash- No thanks on the 110! I can't imagine doing that to something this small. :o I tried to wire 110v up to some giant, red, Dr.Seuss looking megaphone horn thing I found in a basement once, and it started vibrating and squealing, making a horrible stinky smoke. It was face down on the carpet at the studio when I did it, and it melted this spiral ring crap through the carpet. It looks like I tried to launch a small spacecraft from the center of the room. I was coincidentally thinking about trying to fix it just yesterday. They'll probably refuse to give me my deposit back when I move out because of it, and I never even got to hear what the horn was supposed to sound like. :'( This LCD does look like what you describe. It's the dimension of what they have as the Reflective/EL on p.35, and it's got the gap you mention between the glass and the PCB. I just grabbed a PDF on installing EL Foil under reflectives. Looks sort of fun, and the foil is around 15 bucks for a 5x6" piece in weird colors. In the PDF, they show you how to remove the opaque backing from the screen part. Looks like the dealers sell that sheet with a 12V inverter. Wish I could swap the backlit screen of this other 2x40 I killed, but I guess that's for a micro-surgeon. I think the "brain" of it is all that's dead. I do have a test box I built for a 2x40 here, that should have no problem with the "reflective only", so I guess I'm already cool for one. Take Care George PS- Why wouldn't those fools put any of the actual full model numbers on the back? I just noticed they've also got "or equivalent" under the KS chipset stuff in there, so I guess that's why it has a 44780 on it.

Alex, Thanks! Yeah, I knew the 44780's were good, I just couldn't figure what part those other HD's might be involved in. All my other screens here are 44780's. I think my 2x16's have two of them on them. My other 2x40's have one 44780 and 4 small "OKI"s. My real problem is that backlight thing if anybody's familiar with it. ??? Take Care, George

If anybody reads this: I got those cheap screens today. The model numbering is kinda weird. They're not all that easy to find on those spec. sheets, or the chipsets don't match 100%. * In that "seiko manual.pdf", they appear to have the "Reflective/EL" backlight (apprx. 5.5mm thick from the PCB). I don't know if that means there's no stock onboard lighting, or they need an inverter or what, but I figure you guys know. If they have no light, or it's extra $, I still can find uses for unlit 2x40's, for as cheap as they were. * They look like they don't have the Thorsten "KS" chipset, which is listed in the PDF for some reason. The board has three of the regular rectangular HD surface mount IC's: (left to right) HD66100F, another HD66100F, and an HD44780A00 * On the PCB backs, under the green solder mask crap, they've got W-78, 94V-0, Seiko Japan, Rev.C, and L4042 (there's an L4041 above it, but it's crossed out with black magic marker). The aforementioned 'left to right' IC numbering is: IC3, IC2, IC1 * There's a serial number or something, stamped in black ink, which looks different for each one. (the one I'm looking at is 5588044) * On the left end of the fronts, they've got the usual header/connection spot. It's blank, plated, thru-holes for a standard, dual-row 14-pin (2x7). Above the 1&2/3&4 pin pairs, are another two holes marked 15&16 for the BL power, I suppose. There are the larger two square PCB pads at the far right end of the screen, but they don't check as being linked to the 15/16 pair, or any of the 2x7 pins. If they run to somewhere, I suppose it's in the center layer (no visible traces on the top or bottom). Before I burn any up trying to make the light come on, please let me know what they can do (if you know). If they can't be used, they were cheap, and I can always throw them back on eBay, or make a "Dr.Theopolis style" necklace or something (the ladies dig that sort of stuff here). Thanks! George PS- I don't know what he's done with the others, but that relisted second auction didn't sell any ( http://tinyurl.com/lxcng ). He had 10 left @ 2 for 99 cents. ( seller is- msteele32iw )

Didn't mean to give that impression. I have the power to break the "unbreakable". ;D I mainly just don't feel like most people who are into this sort of stuff, wouldn't have a lot of fun burning PIC's at some point anyway. Seems sort of sad not to have any burner at all. :'( By side effect you mean a "good" one right? Sounds good.:) I've wondered before if there would be a way to put a "bulletproof" MIOS/MIDIBox dump into a PIC, like if you wanted to give someone else the box, and wanted to lock the contents, so they couldn't turn around and ruin it all. (like any of the old controllers with no learn or edit capability)

I hope that's "nailed", like nailed through it with an 8" galvanized spike, so it couldn't ever screw up again. ;D I've heard several mentions of people who got it to work, but they've noted that "every once in a while", it simply won't cooperate, no matter what. Sort of frightening prospect, having all your MIDI devices suddenly launch a "labor strike" on you for no reason. ;) George