Jidis
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Posts posted by Jidis
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Julien,
I've used the "LCD-less" MIDIMon for that from Nuendo. It will also detect and display regular beat clock, if that appears in the stream. You can check or uncheck them in the Cubase sync panel to turn them off.
TK- If you should see this-- I don't think it does non-4/4 time signatures in beat clock mode. It's not supposed to is it?
PS- Check the actual pinning of the segment modules you use. I've got two different dual digit display parts here with different pinouts.
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I would guess the vmidibox result is available through the right changes or includes in the midio source, but it looks like most of us in this thread are on the same level.
:'(
The MIDIBox skeleton and example apps are the same way, so comparing them with a full featured source would give an idea of what to add. I'm guessing again that most of it isn't specific to just the MB64 apps.
-George
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I have two standard arcade joysticks here. The common type you see are actually sort of primitive electronically. They're not pots, just a stick attached to a base that "leans" on a few momentary switches. They coincidentally are the same standard switches they use in the arcade buttons. They also have a guide piece for some that locks the movement in four directions. They normally can do eight. There are probably some arcade machines that have to use continuous controls.
-George
PS- Just remembered, I had an Apple II joystick which was fairly small and hi-tech looking, which had pots. They were pretty common and there were a few different ones through the Apple II GS and maybe even early Macs.
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What I meant with the solo lights was that under a generic remote connection in Nuendo I wasn't sure if there'd be a message.
Well I did some playing around tonight, and it seems there are flags for send AND receive in the generic assignment listing. I had never needed it before. I was then able to get the MB64 buttons in toggle mode along with an LED status indicator and got them to pick up the same button signal from Nuendo, so it looks like I'm set. It also got the fader values just like my CS-10, which was cool for "snap" mode. Steinberg's generic editor is a very underrated beast. My intended "solo's" will actually happen in the "send" section of the audio channels, so they'll really have to be a "disable all the other channels" type of signal. If that looks impossible, I may just go with mute buttons/lights that disable the different sends.
I'm thinking it may be the easiest route just to stick with a 64 for this, even if I bump back to a 2x16.Â
-George
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LX-
I noticed tonight in Serge's vmidibox editor, you can apparently map d.out lights to whatever MIDI signals you have your d.in buttons set to, so if they see that same message come in, they light up.
It may not be exactly what you're talking about, but it was easier for me to do than finding it in the code right now, and I'm also just learning the stuff.
-Take Care
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Roger,
Thanks a bunch. I guess an emu is going to give me the tightest two way communication with my host. What I meant with the solo lights was that under a generic remote connection in Nuendo I wasn't sure if there'd be a message. I'm sure I'd be fine with the LC. It's also good to see that it's got all that metering and MTC built in, but I'm already struggling with learning the regular MIOS stuff. I'll read up on it, but if there's a way I can save the LC for my second (main control) box and can spread the parameters across a 2x40 on an MB64, I may only need that for this one. I'm anxious to get to the control layout, so I need to see where the LCD stuff is going to land (my guts are currently a Greg board and three proto boards with CAT5 wire jumping all across the table blocking the controls - it looks like a pile of seaweed)
I didn't realize there was a second schematic for the LED digits either. I've got the MIDIMon version mapped to a board only slightly larger than the 8 digits, with the 595's on there with it. I'll look over the LC digit layout to see if there's any of it I can use from mine.
-Thanks Again!
George
PS- I bought some green 2 digit/7 segments recently, and the bastards aren't pin compatible with all the others I've seen (or my layout). Good thing to check if you use an Eagle library item for some. My other board had too many jumpers anyway ;)
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Should be some easy yes/no questions. I was mentioning one of these to Dave in the assembler forum-
Those giant boxes in the gallery with the 2x40's have parameters chopped into perfect channel sized columns. Is this available with the regular MB apps?
I've also seen additional MTC/clock displays. Is this from a separate MIDIMon circuit or something, or can you get the MTC to output to LEDs if you have enough free shifts?
Where are the channel meter signals coming from?
Are the "emulating" apps modular at the hardware level, or do they require an exact cloning of the motorized faders, number of controls, etc.?
                                     -Thanks!
George
PS- I'm guessing maybe I'll need to switch to an emulation to get some of this. I'm not even sure Nuendo spits any MIDI out while solo/muting with the mouse, so there would be no means of LED indication on an external device.
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looks like you will need to create a new LCD file (base is on "cs_m_display_2x20.inc")
Funny, I think that's exactly what I ended up doing last night ;D
I started off tinkering with the 2x16 settings and I think I also ran into that problem you mention with the app thinking there are four lines (half the parameters seemed lost somewhere). I ended up doing the 2x20 and doubling some of the parameters, also had added 12 to get to the center of the display, but what I ultimately ended up working with was a 2x16 block in the middle of the display (sort of strange looking). I'm not sure if that's what Thorsten meant in the note about being able to modify one of the defaults to use larger screens, or how some of the gallery boxes have the 4 channels worth spread across the 2x40. It looks like I need to carry the cs_m_ display file with me tonight for some reading.
PS- (If TK sees this) - The first "0" option in the mains is listed as 4x20, but it isn't hard to catch, as it doesn't match the 4x20 values on #3
                                - Thanks!
PS- I've now also got the bankstick formatting loop that a couple others got here. It's got to be a connection issue, but all 8 lines check perfectly and I think it worked when I first connected it. I swapped the chip and it did the same (I've also got the 5v pullup on that one pin)Â Â Â Â - I probably don't need a bankstick, so if worse comes to worst, I'll just pull it.Â
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Dave,
Thanks! Yeah, the book I used sounded like it just meant that numbering in the code would be accepted as hex or whatever, unless you specified otherwise for an instruction. I'm guessing that's why Thorsten has the 0x's in there, and the default is decimal.
The problem I mention at the bottom is no big thing. I'm just struggling with where all the custom LCD parameters are supposed to be specified, what they do and what they are for mine. I see all these cool gallery boxes with LCD content that looks as if it's spread across the screen to align perfectly with the control layouts.
So I'm basically just wondering what the exact settings are for a single 2x40, where they need to be (other than main), and if I can work that out, later I'll get into arranging and naming parameters within the display. The 2x40 should probably be common enough now to be one of the default options in all the MIOS apps.
                               Take Care
George
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For anyone interested in the future, this appears to have been caused by the "radix" checkbox in MPASM. I had unknowingly checked that for hexadecimal, and specified the processor type, like I did in most of the 16f84 beginner exercises in the book I was in. Leaving it at the default (dec?) seems to have fixed it. I'm also now on MPLAB 7.2, but it makes the same mess with hex on. The resulting app was weird. It sort of looked like it went OK, but splattered crazy characters all across the display.
                            -George
PS- I'm still fighting with the 2x40 thing. I copied the offset parameters from the SEQ LCD file, which has a single display 2x40 option, but I just got the same 2x16 output pushed over to the right end of the screen. The four parameters were 18,58,00 and 40. I'm guessing the 18h was the 24 spaces to the right that it started at, the 40h was the 64th point for the start of the second line(?), and I'm lost on the other two (if I didn't flunk the first ones ;) )Â Â Â
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Smash,
Great! I'd love to help however I can. I've already run into a few carelessly overlooked termination mistakes I made and there are some parts of the example apps I found a little confusing. I'll start keeping notes tonight, but if I read you right, I'd be more fit to passing off the notes to someone with a thorough understanding.
I just put a question about MPASM in the "Assembler" forum, so it may be a bit of a stumbling block in getting to where I can really start tweaking. (my hex compiles seem to be quirky :( )
-George Â
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Hi,
At the very end of a bunch of frustration, asm changes, and troubleshooting, I discovered last night that MPASM may actually be to blame for some of the non-working apps I've tweaked.
With no code changes at all, the pre-compiled MB64 2.4 hex program loads and runs OK (from MIOS Studio), although I am using a 2x40 display, 8 buttons, 16 LEDs, and 1 pot on a 4051. If I recompile it myself with no source changes, MIOS Studio reports a changed hex file and the new app reboots with crazy flickering characters all across the display and erratic or no response to button presses. This is similar to the kind of apps I was getting while trying to customize the i/o and LCD parameters in the source.
Is anyone familiar with this and, ideally, know of a solution? I moved my compiling and MIOS Studio stuff to my main XP machine, because the 98lite secondary rig wouldn't let MPLAB 6 or 7 install, and the older Microchip stuff didn't recognize any of these projects or files. I believe the one I'm running under XP is 7.01, and I've got most of MPASM's boxes set to the defaults and have it set to output a .hex file for the 18f452.
                              -Thanks!
George
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PWX-
As a fellow newbie, I would recommend the book I used, which was "Easy MicroControl'n" by Square One. It teaches you on the smaller PIC 16f84. With that and a bunch of other small MIDI PIC code files from the web, you should be able to get a feel for the basic concepts. I never found a good "next book", as the Square One book doesn't really get into a bunch of stuff (macros, for instance, or many of the features of the bigger PIC chips). I liked it a lot and had no trouble with it, but I more or less *hate* this Kernighan & Ritchie "C" book that I'm carrying now, and it seemed to be very well accepted as a beginner's reading.
                                   Good Luck!
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Funny, I had read through Iain's other posts, and just found this one. We seem to both be looking for the exact same type of MIOS docs for the exact same reasons. Definitely the part about helping musician types get a hold on assembler and higher level languages through something they're interested in and can use. I took piano lessons years ago, while I was in-between studios and had no keyboard or sampler set up in a convenient location. With nothing but the boring theory material to work with and nothing fun to apply it to at the time, I rapidly forgot everything I learned.
I like the idea of a printable, standalone text or PDF document for this one element of the MIDIBoxes, maybe with a brief table of contents to organize it. Most of it doesn't seem like it would necessarily need pictures or a web page, and it would be a great thing to have outside the computer.
It's a shame the technical world and the writing world are so "separated", but I guess most of us would be better at describing "nerd things" to each other than your average writer ;DÂ (maybe we could recruit Craig Anderton or somebody)
                                   - GeorgeÂ
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I cannot spend the effort to write such a documentation, but I'm always open for distributions from other users.
I would really hope that you didn't ;) I think it's good that some of us who have benefited from your projects and time can help each other when possible.
I personally am closer to PIC assembler than I am to C at this point, but am just barely able to scratch the surface of either. I do realize there are more people coming from the more common languages. It's also not looking like you might need such a thorough understanding of either, simply to work with and configure MIOS applications. I know that ideally there should be people adding to the code and finding other uses for it, but I'm finding plenty to learn just in compiling a custom configuration for my box. At this point, I'm almost ready to dump in all the other default parts for one of the example projects, instead of trying to setup this "weirdo" proto-board with a few parts and a 2x40. A really basic tutorial would even suffice, focusing mainly on adding the necessary parameters to a skeleton app and linking all the needed include and header files. I'm going to read through most of them tonight, but I've been making all my changes in the "main" file and I'm not getting a functioning app. I'm wondering how many of the others need to be modified, if any. Also, the LCD thing is a bit of a mess for me. I think I found the offset list for the 2x40 in the MB Seq source, but I still don't see it work properly.
The MBHP modules and the burning and loading of the bootloader and MIOS were all very well documented, as well as the troubleshooting procedures (which came in handy). I still think the organization of all the bundled files and what they're doing could use a bit of a newbie's intro on a page or two (-please not you TK)
I guess the obvious solution is to get off my tail and sink a bit further into learning PIC code, or C as you suggest, but I think learning some of it through this particular application would make it a lot easier :-*
                            -Take Care
George
PS- No complaints. With or without a manual, this is a great place! Â
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If anybody is looking for regular style knobs with indicator marks, there seems to be about 10 times more of them on eBay than there usually is right now. A seller named "emtelelectronics" has a bunch of different cool looking black D-shaft knobs in batches of 50, then there's a bunch of old style silvers by other people in smaller quantity.
                         Must be the season.
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Great looking stuff Moxi! I especially like the embedded LEDs. I've been off the fiberglass for a while, trying to help my sister with her house, shop for another studio and about twenty other things, but your pictures are making me miss it :'(
I was wondering how much of an affect the latex stuff would have on the colors. I had only tested it over the raw FG and done some black stuff. I need to get a feel for the smaller parts like you're doing. I've got a pile of cool little "short" faders with plastic shafts, and can't figure out what style of cap might fit them, yet still be appropriate for a slide control. Making them would be an ideal solution.
Perhaps it's not a good job for fiberglass, but I also wish someone might come up with a good means of using the cheap, common "shaftless" tact switches, like you find in most consumer electronics (the small kind with the little black rubber or plastic "nub" in the center). They're cheap as dirt and small enough that you could load a whole panel full of them without hogging much space. I also like the softer touch controls with less travel like that for frequent button taps. I was thinking maybe a bunch of DIY buttons glued to a flexible substrate, like a sheet of rubber, might be able to sit over the switches, but I'd be afraid they'd eventually fall off. Maybe a total "rubber solution" in a fiberglass mold like they do for the membranes in TV remotes. The home component stuff usually has that plastic hinge thing on one side of the button, but I'd be afraid of breaking it with something more brittle like FG.
                     Please keep the new pictures coming!
-Thanks
GeorgeÂ
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Hi again!
I've been playing around with the "main" files in a bunch of the example apps and though I'm having a great time with it, learning the ins and outs of a custom LCD,pot,button,LED configuration isn't all that straightforward for someone without much programming background. The skeleton apps are a bit "raw" for me, but the standard MB64 apps have too many settings which I need to locate, delete or change for my application. I've also been focused more or less on the "main" file and need to get a better grasp on what settings are kept where and how the different source files are interacting with one another. Â
I know Iain (XORNOT) has been rounding up tutorial info and it's greatly appreciated. I'm wondering if there would ever be a chance of a standalone (offline) version of such documentation, in a single file or so? Maybe a PDF or text file, with little or no pictures, which would describe not only the list of functions on the "mios_fun" page, but take you step by step through the creation and compilation of a basic control setup and maybe even into more complex arrangements with motorfaders, etc. The formatting and layout of parameters across a user's specific LCD to align with a custom control layout is probably a text unto itself. The hardware connections are all pretty well documented here and in the schematics, but MIOS is such an interesting and powerful beast, it seems well deserving of a good book.
I wish I had the knowhow to contribute to such a project, but I would gladly help with pointing out the parts which were easy to understand or confusing for someone like myself.
                                    -Thanks!
George
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... yepp! There are some other people, who thought the same ;)
Yeah, I think JLCooper uses something similar on some of the high dollar post controllers. I try not to see stuff that costs that much ;)
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Thanks for the tip on the TRF paper! If it works halfway for labels and is available in white, it's well worth the extra money. I had wished I could do that with the regular transfers, but it's black on white only. I even considered spraying white rectangles on a panel with something and doing an inverted black/white text over them to show white lettering (probably wouldn't work). I've gotten pinholes and stuff with large areas of black on the Gootee method too. I usually hit them with a wide tipped marker for safety, but I'd be more happy getting all the small stuff to transfer.
I was planning to spray my own topcoat over the black on silver labels, if they come out OK. I've done stuff before where I had to "mist" really light coats at first to avoid blurring and eating up the ink. Trial and error with some different clear sprays would probably find a good one.
Like I mentioned, I'm not really positive that I like the new Staples paper as much as the JetPrint. I got that EPROM board done with JetPrint and it was fine. Also, the Gootee laser printer mentioned on that site wasn't much either when I looked. It was around $45 (US) in some places, and seemed like a common home computer printer. If I have time to try to find one, it may be worth having for other fast PDF prints and stuff. (I use crappy slow inkjets here)
-George
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Davo,
You're probably describing the technique here-
http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
I've been using that for lack of easy alternatives, and have even considered finding one of the laser printers like he uses, so I can print my own. The ones I've done have come from a copy machine at my father's office. I believe the toner is about as important as the paper. The first ones I tried came from a local Kinkos (print shop), and they all but refused to leave the paper. I started off with the "JetPrint" paper Gootee used and then grabbed a pack of the new "Staples" paper he found. The Staples stuff works well, but it leaves a "residue" on the board, which you rub off with finger pressure. The old stuff more or less falls off on it's own after a bit of time soaking. Rubbing the traces scares me, but he swears by that new paper, and I have had the old stuff pull traces off while I was peeling.
It's not a bad method, but does take a bit of practice (which it seems you've had). I did one of the Willem EPROM programmers with it, and it had a bunch of those god awful traces that squeeze between IC pins, etc. Unfortunately, the exact amount of pressure and time is difficult to log and repeat, but the messy transfers are really easy to wipe off afterward, so you don't waste anything. It seems every time I do these things I have to spend a about a half hour remembering my previous technique and getting clean transfers, so I try to throw at least a few of the same board on each sheet and bring home at least a couple (the paper is cheap as dirt). It may also be wise to get a few small practice transfers in and then start the bigger one, but my problems are usually at the edges, plus you may get lucky and dump a nice clear one while you're warming up using the final board for practice. I've found that pressing too hard over the full board, or for too long, can blur some of the traces and I now prefer to focus smaller amounts of heat, pressure, and time with the pointed tip of the iron around the entire board over a bit longer total time. I still do the initial minute or two on the full board, but I don't press too hard. I don't think that lighter pressure with the tip, moving to different areas for a long time can do any harm, and it may insure that everything makes it to the copper.
I would try different types of copy sources first, assuming you've gotten one of the papers he likes. I may have gotten lucky with the copy machine I found. I do think I used a piece of paper over the back of the board when I ironed, but I see masking tape recommended. I've also backed the heat down a bit from max on the iron, and the one I use now, somehow seems to do better than my previous one, so you may want to borrow a different iron to double check. You shouldn't need to follow his exact directions to get a good copy, or even replicate your own procedure each time. The initial attempts should come out fairly close with the right combination of paper, toner, etc.
I probably don't know enough to check your layout for circuit errors. Hopefully, someone else here could. I have found it beneficial to beef up any thin traces if they have room surrounding them. This keeps them from coming up with the paper, if that's a problem. I noticed a few skinny ones on your PDF. I also sometimes get pinholes in my larger ground masks from the extra time I spend getting the copper from around the smaller detailed traces, but that's an obvious "etching" issue.
                       Hope you can get it working! :)
                                           George
PS- If you do sort it out, see if you can get good transfers to metal substrates. I'm trying to do that for my current box, but haven't gotten around to the label stage yet. There's probably a combination of metal and surface prep that would work for clean black labels.
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Hi again,
Is it possible (and easy) to use a set of channel buttons for several different functions, with a button (and ideally LED indicators) to display the current assignment?
For instance, my JL Cooper has one single button above each channel fader, which acts as solo, mute, locate or select, depending on the state of the main button, which has 4 labeled LEDs. It would save me a bunch of space. I'd probably also want lights for the current status of Nuendo's corresponding functions, which would hopefully stay on even if another function were selected. Like if channels are muted, their individual mute lights would stay lit, even if you were in select mode.
I hope that's not expecting too much of Nuendo or MIOS. If it is indeed a common configuration, could anyone point me in the area of MIOS that I need to read up on?
                      Thanks!
George
PS- BTW- I've got my updated Greg board up and running (with MIDI i/o). I'm having a bit of trouble compiling an MB64 2x40 LCD app that works with my temporary minimal config. (only the first 4051, 595, and 165 are installed with 8 buttons to the 165, no banksticks and no pots or lights). Everything is properly terminated, but I'm struggling with finding all the right MIOS parameters to turn off or change for this skimpy circuit. I think the available AIN/DIN/DOUT chips are correctly assigned in the re-compiled app., but the closest I've gotten is a screen full of random characters, which appears to occasionally "respond" to some of the function buttons. I'm reading and working on it, but I'm real tight on time these days.Â
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it would be better to burn the bootstrap loader into the PIC and to upload MIOS through MIDI
Yeah, that was my first approach with the PIC that I thought was a bad burn. It booted to a top row of black squares, but I couldn't dump anything via MIDI. Now that I've seen the circuit fail to respond with a MIOS chip, and from what you said, I'm guessing it was probably OK and I need to go back and double check all my MIDI lines (between the Greg board and the MBHP). :-\
Strange thing, I didn't seem to get "in" or "output", and I was using the same connections my controller usually takes, so I know the computer to box path was good.
-Thanks!
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I've only been able to spend a little time each night on my 64, and last night I finally got all the mods done for the "Greg to MBHP" conversion.
One quick question- The MIOS 1.8 hex download by itself will contain the loader and everything for a functioning MB64, right?
( -I know the default configuration won't be exactly what I've got)
After fighting with a badly blown 18f for a week, I put that hex in one and got the copyright/TKlose screen on the 2x40 and it sits at "Ready". I'm not, however, getting any MIDI i/o and was wondering about the defaults in that hex, before I go into a lot of PCB troubleshooting.
My shift registers and 4051's are still hanging unconnected (unterminated), but I figured I'd still get the initial output message or see a response when I throw it something from Serge's loader. I think I did ALL the mods, including the luminance circuit and the 100 ohm inline with pin 1 (I see why you skipped that Steve >:( ) I've also tried flipping the two DIN pins on the MIDI ports and swapping optocouplers. All the connections and voltages in the MIDI area seem OK. The PIC was blown with ICProg 105 on a Willem 3.1 programmer at whatever config defaults loaded with the hex. I've also tried the "LED on the output" test and got no response. I'm taking the html's and pictures from all the MIDI troubleshooting and MIOS guides with me tonight, unless I hear that the 1.8 hex alone isn't enough.
                       - Thanks!
George
Mackie HUI-Protocol
in MIDIbox HUIs
Posted
It may be the wrong choice of abbreviated letters ;)Â (different HUI)
It's just the "host user interface", like the different MB applications. (not that many here wouldn't want a link to the HUI spec)
-George