MRE

the real trick to the dumbass line is that all us smartasses are the only ones who actually use it.. see.. true dumbasses would never notice there was a dumbass line.. in fact, Murphy dictates that all the dumbasses will be in every line BUT the dumbass line. It matters not what language it is written in, because dumbasses don't have their own language. Furthermore, dumbasses are adept at averting their eyes from large bright flashing signs ment to call their attention to anything important. Even when it says "HEY!! YOU!! yeah, DUMBASS!! this is your line!" It's not that dumbasses are incapable of reading the sign... they simply are incapable of noticing it in the first place. Thus, anyone with any sort of brain would notice the general chaos that is the airport, ignore the potential embarasment, and promptly stand in the shortest line.. Ie.. the dumbass line.

of course a fully terminalized front end is easilly possible as well.. That would reduce all IO between the Midibox and menu surface to a serial stream and only two wires.. you would actually have MORE I/O available to the core module. (again, you need a micro here) But it also requires rewriting some of the core software.. including 'breaking' the LCD port routines... and a few more cycles are needed out of the core to bitbang the serial in and out. (BUT, you could trim some core code now as well, since it not longer has to deal with control codes and LCD initialization.) The terminal micro is no longer simply shuffling data from one side to the other, so it is going to require more programming on the part of the builder. It has to initialize the LCD (which the first suggestion had to do as well). It also has to handle Serial events, depacket the data, format the screen, write data to it, handle key input events, packet them to serial data, and send it out. my first suggestion was essentially a 'dumb switch' with some intelligences written in to smoth out the wrinkles.. The terminal app is an intelligent device and requires a lot more programming effort for both the cores and the terminal itself. Not to mention difficult to migrate to other midibox devices. From a hardware standpoint though, it is the most elegant.. Clean.. two wires to each core.. and as I said.. MORE IO.. you could use half of the LCD port on the core for other duties.. AND.. being a serial terminal.. could have a lot more controls on the control surface. I would advise against any analog signaling or anything that demands precise timing here. menu stuff is fine, but music control should be left to the dedicated hardware. a note from systems design: "when faced with a complex processing challenge, distribute, distribute, distribute."

This could easilly be solved by a PIC set up as a 'terminal' It would take the LCD inputs from both units on two of its ports. A small three position toggle would tell it which port to pay attention too. So the PIC would transfer the data from the selected input port out to the LCD. You could also save a few pins with a bit of crafty programming on the output side so that your control buttons and LCD both take up less then 9 pins. (example, the LCD could be ran in 4 bit mode, even though Midibox thinks it is attached to an 8 bit mode LCD. The PIC would have to ignore config data from the Midibox and do the LCD configuration on its own. You may still want to do some glue logic up front to save io pins.. an 877 has a lot of io, but still... An example might be to tie the midibox LCD output to a shift register, then you only need two (?) wires from the midibox LCD to the PIC.. Likewise, the encoder data going back could be feed to registers (sort of the OPPOSITE of how a din module works). Heck if you do it that way, and you only had two or three devices to control, you might even be able to do it with a much smaller PIC. Call it a Midibox config terminal if you will... A similar project idea was demonstrated to connect a 'terminal' to multiple microcontrollers in a distributed processing project.. There is a disadvantage: after switching to the next device, you need to force a resend of screen data. (in fact, the LCD will still display the last screen, as if it was attached to the previous device [unless you write a page that says "switching to..." ]) The new device was effectively being ignored, so screen data is lost untill you start watching it.. it may be in a menu location, or asking for data.. you need to force a refresh by 'doing something'.. that 'something' might not be what you want. Now, you could always dedicate an input in Midibox to act as a 'refesh request'.. when the PIC switches to a new device, it toggles that input.. then its up to Midibox OS to recognize it and redraw the display.

Stryder, The very fact that you feel the need to ask this question only points out that you ABSOLUTELY MUST do it without censoring yourself. If everyone keeps their mouth shut, no one will ever remember what went wrong.

In case you haven't noticed the forum slow down today.. Wilba's MBsid got Hackaday'd!!! Congrats!! http://www.hackaday.com/2007/05/23/mb-6582-diy-c64-based-midi-synth/ And.. JESUS that thing is gorgous. Now if only we could get someone to make clone SID chips! How many more C64's have ta die?!

Agree with Wilba.. In fact, I would suggest taking a trip to your local electronics shop or thumb through a catalog and get a cheap project kit or two. Electronic Dice, or alarm kit. Something that will let you practice soldering several components, getting used to the heat sensativity, understanding polarity of certain parts.. etc. If you make mistakes, its ok, you didn't spend much on it anyway. Go ahead and destroy something you dont really care about. The idea is to get good and comfortable with the work before attempting to build up a Midibox kit. Midibox kits aren't exactly difficult to build, and they aren't exactly expensive, but they aren't exactly newbie safe either.

damn that looks pretty.

yah.. Id like to see the results of an ohm test between a common ground or 5 volt point and each pot input pin on the chips. Do this with power off and the chips out. you need to divide and conquer. test at each pot input pin on the chip socket and sweep the pot. You should get a nice 0-10K ohm (or whatever rated pot you have) sweep for each one. Alternatively you can do it with power on, with the chips out. In such a case, measure between the chip input for the pot and ground, and measure VOLTS.. not ohms.. it should respond to the pot from 0-5 volts.

Based on Timboronies experiences, I have narrowed down the laws governing MIDIbox construction to one of two possible maxims: 1: Being that thetimboroni is a nexus for MIDIbox gremlens, for his own good, he should be barred from building any future MIDIBoxes :'( pooor pooor tim 2: Being that thetimboroni is a nexus for MIDIbox gremlens, for OUR own good, he should be made to build at least 4 MIDIboxes a year, containing all gremlens within his own box, and thus assuring all other MIDIbox builders will have a troublefree and joyous construction. ??? pooor pooor tim

Test after eachpot. You will find "the wall" where it all goes kaput (IF it goes).

Another option for regulators would be 'remote' mounting. NTE and many others offer identical regulators with lead or spade tab packages. Granted these are way overkill for a midibox. Anyway.. easy bolt through mounting to your metal cabinet legs up. Press on spade plugs route wires to the board and the input supply. as for a branding.. well.. thankfully I have been lucky. (I do have a brand in the profile of a cat that didnt land on his feet on my ankle, but that was from a molten metal spill). Think one of the most interesting might be when several chips split apart in an old video blackjack cabinet at the casino. As one of the first techs to arrive on the scene, I opened one of the cabinet doors and immediately grabbed for my nose. The smoke-stench/vaporized dustbunnies smell cleared the room faster than any old crotchety Depends shitting tracheotomy smoker ever could.

Als, due to Customs just downright being asses.. it is POSSIBLE that you will be held or refused entry if they suspect that you are a performer and do not have the proper work visa. I know it sounds crazy, but I know someone who was comming down to do a few performances and had to cancel his mini-tour because he was not allowed into the country. He was told that he and his clothing luggage could enter, but his gear and merch could not unless he got a temporary performer's work visa. still, its unlikely, but be aware that it IS happening now at some ports of entry. I you are performing, and plan on merching, mail your merch in.

good call there.. and.. you are totally right about the sid box.. break it, burn it, toast it and finally fix it.. now.. when its just a PIC hitting the bin, and not precious SIDs.

ROCK ON! Thank you aliantom. I guess now I have no excuses for not building a box while I am here! heh.

"Huston, we officially have a WTF?!?! situation up here.."

AlianTom! Where in Japan are you? I live close to Tokyo. I have some questions for you about where to buy PIC chips. I love Akihabara, but I do not speak Japanese. ?????????? ????????????? PIC ??????????????????????????????? ??Akihabara ???????????????

Ahh... good point Smash.. Often people get in the mode of thinking that ground is absolute zero, as if it were some point on a calibrated scale. Ground is just a reference. Voltage is not absolute, it is relative.

Chock it up to a combination of insomnia (it was 4 am Japan time) and a bit of OCD. Now I want to hear the end results! What does it turn out to be?! Some people enjoy the sunday word puzzle. I enjoy the troubleshooting problem that refuses to die. Also, I have noted that while this situation is certainly unique.. many people here have some of the same generalized questions: "how do I go about solving this riddle?" Heh..what gets me is when its something simple in the end. That little 'gotcha!' happens all the time on professional tech benches all over the world, every day. "Aww.. crap! I spent two days troubleshooting this friggin thing, and all it was was a loose solder joint!" But there is still the pride in finding the problem and fixing it. One half of you your brain (the self concious side) says "I cant BELIEVE it took me so long to find something so simple!" The other half (the pridefull half ;) says "I cant belive I FINALLY solved the problem! Im a friggin HERO!" Then imaginary milk-maids prance around your head and flirtatiously tell you how special you are... oops.. went too far there didnt I? heh.

bad pots: 0, 3, 4, 7 ABC table: CBA chanel 000 0* 001 1 010 2 011 3* 100 4* 101 5 110 6 111 7* Standard binary. Oddly symetrical. When both A and B are high, OR when all three are high or low. In any case, the distribution shows that all three pins are functioning from the PIC. Divide and conqure: Verify that the supect pots give a full resistance sweep ALL the way to the chip input pin. That is your division point. If you get good resistance sweep on each pot with your probe on the chip pin, then your hardware from that point on is perfect. The problem is from there to the PIC. If not, then do the same test, point by point, up the wiring chain till you find the break. 1: Pot test software has been tested hundreds of times, and is known to work. So Softare check. 2: Based on what we have just shown, your PIC is addressing and reading values from each analog chip fine. Check. 3: In the 'I have a better chance at winning the lotto' chance that you have several chips with the same pattern defect, verify that they have different lot numbers. If they dont, buy a few spares and play chip swap for a bit just to make sure nothing suddenly changes. Check. One final thought: The 4051 gives no feedback to the PIC what chanel its on. The PIC simply sets and address and then reads the analog input. You could play some tricks on it: Disconnect J6, and tie all the pins on the connector low. This sets all the chips to read pot 0 ( a known bad pot). as the PIC scans the pots, it will THINK that it is reading each one but its only reading pot 0 7 times. If pot 0 is bad in the wiring, then suddenly all of your pots will be in failure mode. If you still have the pattern 0,3,4,7 result you had before, there is something wrong in software or the PIC. Bad registers? Keep in mind that if this is the case, your PIC is reading 1256 properly, and failing on 0347, when in fact it is reading the EXACT same hardware each time. You could double check by setting the ABC lines to an address for a good pot. All 8 pot values for a chip should reflect the pot value of the address you set. If they do, then software is good, and your hadware is flawed.

the pattern of 0, 3, 4, and 7 is very strange.. if you are using the current posted AIN module it translates to the first, last and two center pins of each and every connector. Odd.. I am going to amend something and say that rather than checking at the header pins, pull the chips and check at the chip socket. So, clip to the postive (or negative) with one lead and stick a wire into the socket hole and clip the other lead, then do a pot sweep. I once had a problem with a pic where it refused to read my inputs (on another project) I fought with it for days. Turns out there as a manufacturing defect in the cheap socket and the metal tabs inside the socket were flatened in some pins and never even touched the pic pins! So, check at the socket with the chip out. Alternatively you could check with the chip in by touching on top of the pin lead, but you need some dexterity to manage both holding the probe and turning the knob. you need to look for something that could be repeated for each chip and on each AIN board module. Solder joints is unlikely since you have the same set not working on each input chip, and on each board. So, what is the repeated mistake or (more likely) defect? Is it possible that you got a bad batch of input chips where a sequence of bad ADCs was repeated for several chips? Highly unlikely, but ceck the make dates on the chips. If they are all different, then you are not using parts all from one batch. Is it possible you have a batch of bad sockets? You can confim that by checking the pot resistance with the module unpluged while the chips are installed, as described above. Note that if you check the socket chip out, you are not testing that the pot is ACTUALLY connected to the chip. You can only verify this chip in. Is it possible that there is a miss connection between the boards and core? Well, not with the chip select, since you get 'some' data from ALL chips. The other possability is with the ABC lines. These set various combinations to form an 'address' to read each input. The work with the chart proves that there is no logical correlation of one wire not working while the other two are fine. Further, if it was not, you would get all sorts of bad data. Exampled by not just "pot works or not" but missread values. A bad address line would cause it to 'read the wrong pot' Is it possible that the PIC itself has something going on with the outputs for the ABC lines or analog in lines? Well, a problem with the Ainput line would mean that EVERY pot on the assoicated chip would not read. So, if you had whole banks of pots go out, then yes. In your case you get some pot values from each chip, so no on that question. What about the ABC lines? Same situation as above.

Well, Im sort of back posting, in that I should have posted this with my original response. So you may have already 'been there and done that': Are you using a ribbon cable or a connector block to attach to the AIN boards? If so, Have you disconnected the board and done a resistance check for each pot to the connector? Example: clip one meter lead to the positive line. Then insert a bit of wire into each pot's pin on the connector and clip the other lead to it. Now sweep the pot and verify that it is a nice smooth resistance sweep. Im guessing this was one of the first things you have tried. It would still be strange considering your picture showing that entire rows were dead. I only ask to verify it just to make sure its not something silly like a group of wires on the connector block not punched down all the way.

Id have to agree with Haze here.. The PIC has been around a LONG time.. hell, most microcontrollers have. In that time, Im willing to bet that a million micro projects have been feed off the humble 7805 with no over voltage ill effects. Something else might be wrong here. A defective regulator? A defective PIC? (I have had ONE.) Or more likely, a design or wiring issue. The number one, two and three causes of dead PICs are: 1: not adhering to source/sink current rules 2: not ADHERING to source/sink current rules and.. drum roll please 3: not adhering to source/sink current rules. Now, that is not to say that a design is bad. The design itself could fit the rules precisely, but a misguided screwdriver while power is applied brings the whole thing down.

ahhh nice point. I have used the single chip 8/16 pin boards before but not the EZ series. At any rate, specialized applications certainly COULD use adaptors like the SchmartBoards/PLCC adaptors...

most push encoders only offer a clicky button to the encoder. The ones that operate as two seperate encoders (or as a toggled encoder) as you are thinking of are pretty damn expensive and hard to find (hope someone corrects me and has a good source for them). So, push button encoders offer a button built into them. If you keep track of the button events then yes you could control two parameters. But it wont be push/pull. More like, Push, turn, push again, turn. You would have to ask someone who uses them that way, but I see them working better for enable, disable type events like muting, or filter on/off.

I must assume that you are properly wiring the center pin of the pot as the input, and that all pots are identical. If you wired power in columns, and input pins as rows, perhaps one or more chips/AIN boards is bad or not sending signal. By "not working" what do you mean? Sending 5 volts no matter what? Sending 0 volts no matter what? No signal at all for that channel? Have you disconnected from the AIN board and actually verified the pot itself works down to the connector? Have you checked that each ADC chip is working? Have you checked your configuration files for the MB?