frailn Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I recently put my Prophet64/modded C64 up for auction on eBay and received an overwhelming and unexpected number of questions and requests to build more. In the process of answering all these emails, I have met a person who is interested in a SID synth more sophisticated than what Prophet64/MSSIAH has to offer. So, I directed this person to ucapps.de and told him to research. Basically, I pointed at Thorsten and sent him on his merry way. After he looked over Thorsten's material, he came back and asked if I sold PCB's, parts, schematics, etc....and I explained to him NO SCHEMATICS - the work is copyrighted and he could purchase PCB's and parts kits from SmashTV and gave him the link. I basically told him, putting this together is on you. But, that gave rise to this question:Is it possible to build someone else's midibox for them, if they are purchasing the PCB's and kits on their own? Of course, I would want to charge them for services rendered - time spent soldering and testing, etc...otherwise, they need to figure it out and build it themselves. The product would belong to the requestor for their personal use. Bottom line: I would profit from my time building the box. Not sure how much that is worth at this point. I thought, "how does this meet the spirit of this community - how would doing this give back to midibox.org since this community made this all possible in the first place?" Well, how about taking a percentage of the service fee for building the midibox and donating it to the board? Or to Thorsten or others for funding parts purchases for new development (such as a Pokey module, etc), or to as an advance on parts replenishment to Smash for his store? Any other ideas?Also, the experience gained from building could be sown back into the community by helping others when they come along and ask questions. Please know that I did not come to this board looking for a profit, I came because I found Wilba's midibox of the week one day surfing the net and said to myself, I gotta build one of those! I plan on building an FM synth, Pokey synth, and probably a MIDIbox64 all for my own use. I like this community and would not want to take advantage because it has been so good to me. If I were to make a profit from soldering boards for a guy, I would want to split that profit with the community/people that made this possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie3 Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 i have not seen the exact license agreement for the midibox, but selling the parts, schematics etc is against the agreement. however, selling services such as building a midibox for someone (ie: an hourly charge), now thats something that is a little more in the grey area.personally speaking as a software engineer working with many types of software licenses i see no reason why u cant charge someone your time for building it (hey sasha did and u dont see anyone taking him to court). but then there are some hardcore midibox enthusiasts which might disagree with my statement. i would at least contribute partially what u have made back into the community. this including documentation, schematics, and even money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Don't do it. Read the sticky posts.edit: You build the box for him and sell it to him == he buys the parts and you assemble them for money == commercial == big no-no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I'm sure there are many people building a MIDIbox "for a friend" and I guess there's no harm in that, since if that "friend" has a problem, they'll come back to you to help fix it.There are essentially two reasons why MIDIbox is made freely available for non-commercial use only:1. People should not be making a profit from work that was donated freely to the MIDIbox "DIY" community. That's an ethical reason.2. If anyone had problems with a "commercially sold" MIDIbox and came to the forum for support, then people here would not want to help (and should not have to help) someone who did not build their MIDIbox themselves. That's more of a "spirit of MIDIbox" reason... we love to help people who are doing it themselves.You can read the forums for more examples of people's opinions.I agree there's a whole spectrum between building an extra MIDIbox for a fellow band member, friend, etc. and profiteering from selling finished MIDIboxes on eBay... but selling your "soldering time" to a stranger is more towards the profiteering end of that spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frailn Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I agree there's a whole spectrum between building an extra MIDIbox for a fellow band member, friend, etc. and profiteering from selling finished MIDIboxes on eBay... but selling your "soldering time" to a stranger is more towards the profiteering end of that spectrum.Yeah, my thought process was already leaning this direction since I met the guy through an eBay auction and he is a complete stranger. To be honest with you, I don't think my soldering time is worth much at this point anyway since I'm new to DIY electronics. I thought it wouldn't hurt to put this question out there since there wasn't a thread dedicated solely to services rendered. If anyone had problems with a "commercially sold" MIDIbox and came to the forum for support, then people here would not want to help (and should not have to help) someone who did not build their MIDIbox themselves. That's more of a "spirit of MIDIbox" reason... we love to help people who are doing it themselves.This didn't even cross my mind! Good point, Wilba, and the main reason I have decided that selling soldering time is not a good idea. Thanks for you input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanstaafl Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 agreed, [ nILS ] 9:24 am: whee! go frailn![Tanstaafl] 9:25 am: ?[ nILS ] 9:26 am: http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,11876.msg96423.html#msg96423[Tanstaafl] 9:27 am: oh yeah, i was following that thread.[Tanstaafl] 9:28 am: my first Seq is a prototype, and once I get everything correct, i will be giving it to a buddy (one that actually performs live, as apposed to me.... i only do studio and am not really a musician)[Tanstaafl] 9:29 am: he might reimburse me for the parts, but the assembly is a labor of luv.... hee hee hee[Tanstaafl] 9:30 am: i luv the smell of solder in the morning.... smells like..... MidiBox Victory!gb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilba Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 hey Tans, you left out:[Wilba] 9:23 am: that frailn dude is using the 6582A I sold him to bump up his eBay auction for some C64 expansion card thingo: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300243697514&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=020[Wilba] 9:23 am: sneaky little bugger... ;D(The above transcript is fictitious. Any resemblance to real chat conversation is entirely coincidental, although I have been known to call people "sneaky little buggers" on occasion when they deserve it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanstaafl Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 dag nabbit, i hate the under the radar thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanstaafl Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 When I joined this group... back in .... '03 i think it was... I thought I could make a million bux off of this idea... then I started to read the site. At this time, a few years down the road, there is NO WAY I would ever attempt to benefit monetarily from the intellectual property contained herein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frailn Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 [Wilba] 9:23 am: that frailn dude is using the 6582A I sold him to bump up his eBay auction for some C64 expansion card thingo: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300243697514&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=020[Wilba] 9:23 am: sneaky little bugger... Actually, that particular 6582A was one I bought of eBay before I discovered midibox.org. Maybe it belonged to some other midiboxer before I bought it? Not sure. I still have ALL TEN SID's you sold me! I'm using 8 for the MB-6582 when the PCB's become available. I'm using 2 to build a simple core + two sid modules at the moment. Hoping to stuff them into that geiger counter thingy that Goblinz loves so much. :PHey, how do I get to the chat room!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanstaafl Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 hit the button on the top of this page that says chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimo Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Hey, how do I get to the chat room!?hit the button on the top of this page that says chat.then type /part to access the particular room of the privileged ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frailn Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I guess I should have pointed this out in my first post....Yes, I do have some stuff for sale on eBay. I'm cleaning out my collection of C64 related stuff so I can pay back on the credit card bill I have racked up from purchasing items from SmashTV's store and from Mouser and other places for building midibox equipment. I'm not looking to profit from the midibox project - I'm building stuff for personal use. It may not look that way since I have several auctions going right now for C64 related stuff. None of this stuff was acquired from midibox members or group buys or MEGA SALES. (I love mega sales).This thread was started because I had contact from a guy who saw my eBay auctions and was asking questions that led me to believe he was interested in something more sophisticated than the MSSIAH project. I got the feeling midibox.org would be perfect for this guy so I pointed him in that direction. When he asked about schematics, I told him about the copyrights and the fact this is a DIY community. My communications with this guy made me curious, that's why I asked the question in my first post. After reading through the opinions, I totally agree that soldering services are in the profiteering range, unless its a labor of love for a pal.However, I do plan on turning a profit on modding some breadboxes for a couple of people that are planning on purchasing MSSIAH cartridges when they are available. Painting a C64 case, relabeling the keys, and soldering four pots and a switch seems pretty easy for the return on investment. I'll be using the $$ to pay for my midibox projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLP Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 then type /part to access the particular room of the privileged ones If you're running Windows you've got to take care that you use upper-case letters only:/PART Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 then type /part to access the particular room of the privileged ones Spread the love ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 You're all b*stards! ;DChatroom newbies, don't be fooled by these punks! /part makes you leave the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLP Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 You're all b*stards! ;DChatroom newbies, don't be fooled by these punks! /part makes you leave the room.Why didn't you tell me that yesterday *before* nILS and Wilba made fun of me ? ;D ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblinz Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Actually, that particular 6582A was one I bought of eBay before I discovered midibox.org. Maybe it belonged to some other midiboxer before I bought it? Not sure. I still have ALL TEN SID's you sold me! I'm using 8 for the MB-6582 when the PCB's become available. I'm using 2 to build a simple core + two sid modules at the moment. Hoping to stuff them into that geiger counter thingy that Goblinz loves so much. :PHey, how do I get to the chat room!? Basically you have to pay me the sum of one bright yellow Geiger counter thingy and I'll let you in. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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