UK - petition against mandatory automatic SPL/Noise limiters in all venues

[Artesia]

hi everyone,

the UK goverment is proposing the mandatory fitment of automatic sound level cutoff boxes for all music venues; this concept is unworkable & damaging to live music in this country & removes our freedom to listen to music LOUDLY when we feel so inclined.

please help our cause by signing an online petition at the govt petition website below & also please feel free to invite your friends to the facebook group below to spread the word Smile

Petition:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoNoiseControl/

Facebook Group:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=logo#/group.php?gid=57725287224&ref=mf

37,318 votes up so far from a handful over the past few days, and afew points off being the NO. 1 petition on the site.. please help us clock up a record petiton number.. im sure we -ALL- do not want the uk goverment interfereing in how we enjoy our music Smile

thanks for reading Smile

[Goblinz]

I'm kind of on the fence with this one... Installing sound limiters could help protect venues. Ie if the sound is limited to an acceptable level then it'll keep the people living locally happy.

Form 696 seems a lot morre damaging to live music venues in the UK

Form the facebook group

A new piece of bureaucracy will force licensees to reveal a mass of information about performers.

Publicans and managers of other small venues are forced to comply with a new piece of bureaucracy called Form 696

The form demands that licensees give police a mass of detail, including the names, aliases, private addresses and phone numbers of all musicians and other performers appearing at their venue, and the ethnic background of the likely audience. Failure to comply could mean the loss of a licence or even a fine and imprisonment.

It applies in 21 London boroughs, but professionals in the music business fear that if it becomes accepted, it will be copied in other cities.

These new rules will make putting on live bands next to impossible for most small venues. An 'open mic' night could not happen under such rules. Please join this group to protest against form 696 and new bureaucracy which could kill off live music in London and potentially the whole UK.

Feargal Sharkey (singer of Teenage Kicks) is campaiging against the new rules - see below for more details.

Please sign the petition on the 10 Downing Street website against 696.

See here: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Scrapthe696/

The ethnic background bit really concerns me... what reasons that aren't racially motivated could this be for?

[Artesia]

im all for venues in areas subject to causing a noise nusance being dealt with; infact current noise regs already stipulate this ..its already legislated under enviromental health :) ..they are usually expected to fit sound proofing/attenuate levels such that they dont disturb people outside of the venue.

Apparently the levels are likely to be around 80db, and given that speech is 60db, this is just absurd.. a drummer with no amplifycation would have no trouble tripping them.

the problem is in telling people they have nowhere legal to go where they can choose to go to listen to music loudly.. thats just plain wrong & unworkable..

On the otherhand, whilst volume levels above a certain point for mid/top are pointless; your ears attenuate the levels to compensate aka 'temporary' deafness. that all the impact and depth of music is in the bass register, which incidentally is the least harmful to hearing.. and you require far more spl in this range to really 'feel' the music ;) ..thus blanket spl levels across all frequencys are impractical and poorly thought out; even if we're going to talk about personal safety. its not the goverments business to resetrict personal freedoms of choice over how we choose to 'risk' our health in our own free time :)

if anything, dynamics processors need to be setup to tailor live material across these ranges respectively.. so that the best experience is had without too high a hazard :)

[Artesia]

yeah 696 is worrying too.. id agree with that; but it seems that live entertainment is under a general attack ..how long before they all want us under cerfew, in our own homes ;)

[Artesia]

oh yes.. and theres always earplugs :)

staff should wear them & punters should have access to them (for free wouldnt be bad) ;)

[stryd_one]

Stupid law, huh. Dejavu.

[TheAncientOne]

Some local nameities made them compulsory years ago. Venue owners would 'accidentally' leave the key for the level switch plugged in.

I'm not sure which bunch of civil servants have this thing about music, but it's another example of the destruction of the music scene in the UK. Perhaps they want us all to stay at home watching TV or playing video games like good little troglodytes. I signed immediately.

Britain used to be a major exporter of music, with the continuing loss of opportunities to enjoy it live, a vital part of the creation process for new music is being blocked.

If the suspected 80dB limit is imposed, what are they going to do about symphony orchestras?

On the other hand, I do suspect that some of this is due to the 'level wars' that have been going on between some live sound systems for a while now.

According to my audiologist, the primary cause of haring loss in young people is listening to loud distorted personal stereos. The distortion bit is important - it massively raises the delivered energy to the eardrum. Travelling on the train over new year, I got a good free concert from the kid sitting opposite to me - it was a decent enough volume to listen to, though rather short on bass, from his headphones - it must have been massively loud in the ears.

I would like a law that allows me to use a rocket launcher on the prats who come down my street at 3am, with a car sound system so loud my windows rattle, or I want one of these:

[philetaylor]

Unfortunately the government seems obsessed with making sure we are protected from ourselves and wishes to outlaw anything that may be harmful to us (especially if it is also fun!)

I do a lot of discos/pa's and have fallen foul of noise limiters more times than I care to mention. Some are set with sensible limits and it becomes a sport to see how many lights I can get to turn on but others will cut the power if somebody farts loudly  :) :)

Also as I usually have a PC either for recording or with Traktor I suppose I will have to start lugging a UPS around as well  :(

If I want to smoke, drink or play loud music and I am with LIKE MINDED PEOPLE then who is the government to tell me that we can't just because it 'may' effect our health ??? (and yes I do all three on a regular basis  :D )

Phil

[stryd_one]

If I want to <insert activity here> and I am with LIKE MINDED PEOPLE then who is the government to tell me that we can't just because <insert well-marketed "reason" here>

What did you think they were there for?

[Artesia]

it appears the petition has raised afew eyebrows, although not in the general news that i know of; dolphin have now posted it on their 'news' section of site :) ..also its the last day of the petition and 81,000+ votes in :)

thats twice the number of responses that any of the other petitions have received in the current active frame !

[Goblinz]

it appears the petition has raised afew eyebrows, although not in the general news that i know of; dolphin have now posted it on their 'news' section of site :) ..also its the last day of the petition and 81,000+ votes in :)

thats twice the number of responses that any of the other petitions have received in the current active frame !

Only problem is that the government seem to take no notice of these petitions. All they seem to do is collect the email addresses adn then the PM sends out an email to "Justify" why they are making the changes.

What the need is a sound limiter on the house of commons... Make em all whisper rather than shout. They should stop them from smoking in there too.

[Artesia]

haha.. yup.

and yes, they probably do ignore alot of them.. however itll also make them twitchier about a public backlash if they push certain things thru..

also it helps make people aware of an issue, such that more people keep track of the issue and are more readily mobilised to direct action when this variety of protest is ignored.

in anycase its way better than sitting back with typical british apathy and saying nothing as this country is dug into the ground by those at the wheel.

[stryd_one]

Better yet, remove those at the wheel....

Yaknow, the hypocrisy of club sound levels being mandated by a government that can't won't even get it right on TV after decades of practice is just astounding to me...

Anyway that demonstrates why petitions alone don't get attention - you need to threaten the loss of revenue if you really want to make things happen.

[Goblinz]

haha.. yup.

and yes, they probably do ignore alot of them.. however itll also make them twitchier about a public backlash if they push certain things thru..

also it helps make people aware of an issue, such that more people keep track of the issue and are more readily mobilised to direct action when this variety of protest is ignored.

in anycase its way better than sitting back with typical british apathy and saying nothing as this country is dug into the ground by those at the wheel.

I do sign the petitions that I support, but I'm beginning to think they don't do anything. Everytime one closes, Number 10 sends out an email saying that they've recieved the petition but they are still going ahead with the legislation because it benefits you in whatever way.

I think it's just a way of the government collecting emails addresses for people who oppose their ideas so they can tell them why what they are doing is good for them.

Nothing gets done anymore, we just sat down and took the smoking ban. Years ago you would have 1000s of students and other people out on the streets protesting, making sure that they had a presence and the media and government could see how pissed off people were. Nowadays people log on to the internet and put their email in a box... I don't think it'll get anything resolved.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go and have shown my support and signed the petition, but I've signed too many of these things to think that they are worth more than the ascii file they are written on.

[Therezin]

I got a reply in my email about this petition today:

We are pleased to tell you that there is no truth in claims that the Government is planning to introduce a requirement for entertainment venues to fit noise control devices.

Each Local Authority Licensing Authority considers every live music application on its merits, and decisions are made entirely by them.  However, the Licensing Act 2003 does not allow mandatory conditions for live music to be imposed across the board.  It would not be possible to impose such a condition without a change in the law and such a change is not, and never has been, on the Government’s agenda.

There is also no legal requirement under health and safety legislation for entertainment venues to have noise control devices fitted, nor is there any proposal.

The Government is acutely aware of the contribution that music makes to our culture and we remain committed to a vibrant and flourishing creative sector, of which live music plays an essential part.