hitherescotty Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Hi folks, I am building a sammichSID from the recent batch and have an issue. I am at the stage where I am trying to use MIOS Studio to speak to the Sammich. After turning on the Sammich while plugged in, I saw a single f0 00 00 7e 40 00 01 f7 message in the MIDI In window. And now when the Sammich turns on I get "MIOS V1.9" and then "Ready." When querying I received a "No response from MIOS8 or MIOS32 core!" message and started following the Troubleshooting guide. So when testing my interface via Loopback, I got a detected feedback loop. Good! But when I tried to send a SysEx command, I didn't get an echoed response. In other words, I fail at this step becaue the grey messages aren't repeated back in black: http://www.ucapps.de/mios_studio/mios_studio_feedback_sysex.png So I tried my 2 other interfaces on both my Mac and PC, no luck. I even went out and bought a fourth device on the whitelist (the MOTU FastLane USB). No luck (and $60 bucks down the drain). I must be missing something... Please help!!!! I have been reading alot about Mandolane maybe helping here, but the mandolane website appears to be offline :( EDIT Oh one more note, when sending these messages, the LEDs for both input and output light up on the MOTU device. So I feel like some kind of filtering must be happening on the software end. Or maybe I just need better Java MIDI drivers? When I route through my Sammich and Query, I do NOT get input LEDs to light up. So maybe there is another problem, but I figured I would start with the loopback. Edited January 13, 2013 by hitherescotty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latigid on Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Is the optocoupler installed? With the correct polarity? "If MIDI In not working, blame this part" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 MIOS Studio 2 isn't based on Java anymore (no need to use Mandolane or similar), and it works perfectly under Windows and MacOS "as is". Before continuing debugging: could you please confirm that you are using this version: http://www.ucapps.de/mios_studio.html Because your descriptions are indeed matching with the observations somebody would make if he would use MIOS Studio 1 under MacOS Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitherescotty Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 The optocoupler is definitely installed correctly. But forget the core for a minute, because I can't even get my MIDI interface to echo the MIOS messages via Loopback. Yes I am using MIOS Studio v2.4.2. On both the PC and Mac. My assumptions about Mandolane, etc are just from reading old forum posts which I suppose are no longer applicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Ok, in this case it makes sense to try "TEST MIDI2" of the troubleshooting guide: http://www.ucapps.de/howto_debug_midi.html Is the MIDI data still loopbacked through the optocoupler? Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitherescotty Posted January 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Thanks Thorsten. I will try this. Just to clarify, which IC am I to remove? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 The PIC18F4685 Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitherescotty Posted January 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 OK so no, I m failing this test. Shorting rx and tx does not result in a loopback. I do get a f0 00 00 7e 40 00 01 f7 message into MIOS studio when I power cycle the core, which makes me assume that MIDI Out is working fine. Is that a safe assumption? TEST IN1A/B look fine to me. I am thinking perhaps my core's MIDI port polarity is the problem. Should this be the next thing I test? If so, how do you recommend going about testing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nILS Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [x] Blame and replace the optocoupler. They're somewhat prone to dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitherescotty Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Thanks for the tip nILS. I'm getting a replacement optocoupler in about 1 hour. I will try it later tonight and see if it fixes my problems. However, this still doesn't explain why I can't get my MIDI interfaces to echo SysEx messages via Loopback... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 With a defective optocoupler the loopback issue would be perfectly explained. Is the new one working better? If not: check your MIDI connections: - MIDI IN of your Mac to MIDI OUT of the sammichSID - MIDI OUT of your Mac to MIDI IN of the sammichSID (for the case this isn't obvious to you) Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitherescotty Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Sorry I didn't get a chance to try it out last night but I will definitely tonight. Thorsten, what I mean was that excluding the core, if I try to send SysEx via Loopback using my Mac (or PC's) interface alone, the messages don't echo. Anyway, I will try tonight and report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Please read the hints under "TEST MIDI2" at this page: http://www.ucapps.de/howto_debug_midi.html It also links to a schematic which exactly shows what you have to do for this test. It's clear why you won't get a loopback as long as the PIC is connected... this test requires a direct hardware loopback, therefore the PIC has to be removed from the socket. It could also make sense to read the whole page in order to get a better understanding about the test procedure - maybe it wasn't required to buy a new optocoupler if you would have done this test before... Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitherescotty Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the help thus far guys, but I am still having the same problems. The new optocoupler does not change anything. Sorry if I was not being clear, but I did TEST MIDI2 already (exactly as described) and it fails. But I also fail TEST PC1 when trying to echo SysEx messages. With TEST PC1 failing, I don't conceive how I could possibly pass TEST MIDI2. If my interface is the problem then of course the TEST MIDI2 is also going to fail... From the MIDI Interface Troubleshooting Guide. The part I fail is highlighted: Checking the MIDI Interface via Loopback TEST PC1: ensure that the MIDI interface of your computer is working: loopback the MIDI Out of your computer to the MIDI In of your computer with a MIDI cable. Press the Query button, a loopback should be detected as shown here. Send some MIDI notes with the virtual keyboard; MIDI events displayed by the OUT monitor should also be displayed by the IN monitor as shown here.Now test SysEx transfers by typing some arbitrary strings into the MIOS terminal input window as shown here (note that the MIOS terminal itself is mostly only supported by MIOS32 - but it's a nice debugging help in this situation. Next steps: Loopback not working at all: there seems to be a problem with your MIDI cable, with the MIDI interface or your the MIDI interface driver (google for solutions). MIDI Notes are received, but no MIOS Terminal messages: it seems that your MIDI interface doesn't handle SysEx messages correctly. See also the Blacklist. Sometimes it helps to update the driver. Loopback is working in all cases: it seems that your MIDI interface works reliable, continue with the next chapter Edited January 18, 2013 by hitherescotty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Thanks for finally mentioning the Test ID (TEST PC1) - this makes clear what kind of loopback you mean, and it should be obvious that the optocoupler is not involved in this part. -> Rewind -> Rewind -> Rewind I was reading your initial posting again, and finally understood what is going wrong here: The Query detects the loopback - this is good, because this means that SysEx is sent and received correctly! The test via MIOS terminal doesn't work, and this is actually a bug which went into MIOS Studio 2.4.0 (and higher) with the introduction of the MIOS Filebrowser! It filters too many messages, so that this test won't work like in older versions! I'm sorry for the confusion caused by this issue (actually the terminal based loopback test is the only usecase where this bug occurs)! So: SysEx is working, which means that the firmware upload should work as well! You haven't mentioned in your posting if you ever tried this? Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitherescotty Posted January 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) Sorry if I wasn't clear before Thorsten. No I cannot upload the firmware either. When I query the Sammich, MIOS studio reports "No response from MIOS8 or MIOS32 core!" If I try to send setup_sammich_sid.hex anyway, I get "WARNING: no response from core" If I reboot the sammichSID, my PC/Mac receives f0 00 00 7e 40 00 01 f7 and the transfer begins. After it finishes, sammichSID appears no different, still says READY. Tests I have tried: TEST MIDI1 looks OK. TEST MIDI2 fails. TEST OUT1 passes. TEST IN1A and TEST IN1B look OK. I have not yet tried TEST IN2, IN3, IN4, IN5, IN6, or IN7. Edited January 19, 2013 by hitherescotty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Since the correct SysEx message is received by MIOS Studio, and your MIDI interface correctly transfers loopbacked data, the issue is located around the MIDI IN circuit of sammichSID. Therefore it makes sense to continue the TEST IN checks: TEST IN2 isn't relevant for sammichSID (the sockets are directly soldered on the PCB) But the remaining IN tests are definitely for interest - do you have a spare LED for these tests? Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitherescotty Posted January 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yes I do have one spare LED. I will be traveling for a few days so I will do these tests on Jan 28. I'll update you when I try them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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