Antichambre

Effect pedal, MIDI on a Jack.[SOLVED]

43 posts in this topic

Generally try to provide as much info as possible here. This way the people trying to help you don't have to go looking though everything. The multiple info on this pedal or that and how these people do it isn't helping me help you.

You have the schematic on how a MIDI in will work, you need to find out what your pedal does and how it supplies the +5V. Otherwise you need another power adapter to do so. My guess is that it happens with the ring terminal. Two options were provided to you to arrange the optocoupler on a known PCB design or a piece of perfboard/protoboard.

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3 hours ago, latigid on said:

Shoddy work!

lol
 

4 hours ago, jmp220478 said:

I also found this which may help original post - whats going on in an empress midibox 2 => full design schematic 

 

https://empresseffects.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/1000114016-i-design-build-guitar-effects-and-i-think-midi-is-rad-can-i-make-my-pedal-compatible-with-the-empres

Thank you for that now I'm sure pedal I/O are regular CMOS 5V levels.
 

3 hours ago, latigid on said:

What happens if you get the connections wrong and plug a 15V CV in there? 

They surely protected the input for over-voltage, zener or something else.

 

3 hours ago, latigid on said:

How did you hope to power the optocoupler? Is there +5V on the ring terminal (measure with a voltmeter/multimeter)?

That's the question, Even if there's 5v on the ring it stays the internal UART output(strange) maybe they put something like a big capacitor to maintain the level at 5V (only in input mode of the cable). And this last is removed from the circuit when in output mode(?)... but in input mode the uart output is the power source !!!??? I don't like that.

 

4 hours ago, jmp220478 said:

There are 3 resistors, a diode, and a 6N138 high speed opto-coupler IC chip inside a cylindrical capsule. One might think it is a ferrite bead but it’s not. So if Strymon has gone to this length to make this cable, there must be something that is not either compatible or reliable using just a straight-thru wiring scenario. Usually this kind of circuit is used to mate different voltages or to keep down interference. So word the the wise over seas who can’t yet get this cable, order the parts and make one somehow. Maybe wire it up on an in-expensive breadboard at least. BTW - This is only for input to the pedal. 

So you bought it and opened it? If it's the case send us the picture, please.

 

4 hours ago, jmp220478 said:

For you to know that I checked my diagram and verified signal on waveform monitor before sharing with you, and there's no noise, my first cable made was a 5 meters cable(the length between my setup and my lab) ;)

Best
Bruno

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Et....
There's no compromise between our solution and their commercial one.
Means, if you want the same perfect solution as their, the box you will have to build might not be cheaper than their 'midibox' at 49$.
Then it's a choice you have to make ;)
But thank you for all your research, that's kind.

Best regards
Bruno

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Hello

new to this forum and I know nothing about building electronic gear/midi boxes. Sorry.

But I play guitar, have a producer studio and make a lot of music and sound design.

And I have an issue (could me small...):

i have a Tc 2290 - an old unit (1985) from TC electronic, out of production. It a combined dynamic delay and effect controller, used by folks like The Edge, Robert Fripp and Robben Ford. It is still considered one of the best delay/modulation units. It has 5 inserts for pedals (4 mono, 1 mono/stereo), It can send and receive midi, also got a midi through function. BUT it cannot send/receive CC messages.

It is controlled by Tc 0144 (I have one) a non midi foot controller (sends messages through a standard guitar cable). The TC 0144 can controll everything on The TC2290, including midi program changes.

neither the tc2299 or the tc0144 has an input for expression pedal.

I want to combine this set up with Meris Mercury 7. I want to both change presets and use an expression pedal with the Mercury7. I’m about to buy the Mercury7 but the Meris pedals “only” have a trs input for controlling either exp., tab or midi, unless you buy a dedicated controller.

I want send both pc and cc messages to the pedal, pc messages from the tc2290 and cc messages from an expression pedal. I want this to work on more than one pedal, if I decide to buy more than Meris pedal. (The Polymoon looks and Sound cool).

so I need something like a merge box, that merge pc and cc messages and have input for both midi and an expression pedal and send these massages to the Mercury7.

and, when I probably will buy a Polymoon I would like to be able to also send pc and cc messages to this.

is it possible?

Does a box like that excist?

or can someone build it?

I’ve contacted Meris - they told me to buy Morningstar mc6 ll + Meris midi I/o. 

so i then send midi to Both the Tc2290 and to the meris I/o..?

and dump my TC 0144., altough  the mc6 Can also receiver midi, so i could send midi from the tc2290..?

I know that midisolutions has a pedal controller (waiting for answer)

i know the disaster Area have stuff in this area (waiting for answer)

i know I try to combine 1985 gear with modern gear.

Maybe you Can help to clear things up.

If you need info about TC2290 and/or TC 0144 you Can find it here: http://www.tc2290.com/

i Can also provide excerpts of manuals 

best regards

Søren Bendixen

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Soeren Bendixen

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Congratulation! the 2290 is a great machine!

Could you draw a quick diagram of what you want exactly? Just machines as block and some arrow are enough.

Best
Bruno
 

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Yes this makes sense, the Morningstar mc6 ll seems fine for what you want to do, it can translate expression pedal to CC, receive the 2290 PC event and forward it.
I just had a look on its manual there's no mention of SysEx messages but if it's the case you will be able to control your 2290 with it too, the 2290 has no CC but all parameters are accessible via SysEx.

If you just need the PC message from the 2290(no CC from pedals) then you don't need a merger, but you will need something to distribute the MIDI output of the MC6 to your 2290 and your pedals...
You're lucky we've got something here, it's relatively simple to built, the @latigid on's MIDI Thru is made for you, https://www.midiphy.com/en/news/d/14/
It's a MIDI distributor, from 1 MIDI IN you will get 4 regular MIDI DIN OUT + 3 MIDI TRS(jack) OUT, there's no process, no prog, just electronic.

Without the MC6, an adapted solution made around a MIDIBox Core is also possible but will require some other skill and time. You can also choose this way but you will need to enter more deeply in our little world of MIDI psycho ;)

Best
Bruno


 

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Hi Bruno

First: Thanks for diggin into this.

Next: I might even understand some of what you´re saying, but I´m not sure..:confused:

so I will set up some scenarios:

1) sending midi PC from TC2290 (by pressing buttons on TC0144) into  a "midimerger" box, that merges PC signals from TC2290 with CC signals from attached exp. Pedal

(I could imagine that this is what the MC6 ll does). If I want more pedals I just add the Meris Midi I/o box...

- this is...not possible...?

2) sending midi PC from TC2290 (by pressing buttons on TC0144) into an MC6 ll, forwarding the PC messages (from TC2290) + CC messages to either

A) Meris Midi I/O or  a Midi Thru box (the one you link to)

3) sending midi PC and CC from MC6 ll to TC2290 (only PC i guess) and to either Meris Midi I/O or  a Midi Thru box (the one you link to)

There coud be a 4 scenario:

Tc2290 can work with SysEx. I did some reading about what SysEx is, and it seems like it is a protocol used before one came aware of CC (or the benefits of CC).

And it is sort of an "open end protocol", meaning (to me....)you can do a lot but there isn´t any fixed standard for doing so...but one should be able to send CC messages (do what CC does) via SysEx...

well, I won´t go deeper into this, but what I forgot to mention is that the TC2290 actually has an Cv in/pedal insert - BUT in the manual is says - "reserved for future use".

I even know there is an option for fitting in a midi output on the 0144.

 

I really like to keep my gear simple, So, instead of buying a MC6 ll, It might be possible to work on the Tc2290 - There is a guy in Denmark (where i live) who is capable of building midi into anything. And maybe he knows the TC2290 well. If the fix either is too expensive or not possible, i would like to know how one can build a Midibox core - I could buy it from somebody or buy the drawnings (schematiics..?) and make someone in Denmark build it for me.

 

Hopes it still make sense...

 

VR

Søren

 

 

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1) Yes MC6 + MIDI I/O will work except that the MIDI Out of the MIDI I/O is not a MIDI Thru then you can't connect the MIDI In of your 2290 and control its PC from the MC6.
2) with the MIDI Thru the 2290 can receive too.
3) just keep in mind that the MIDI Out of the Meris MIDI I/O forwards the 4 Merged MIDI IN from TRS it doesn't forward the MIDI DIN In.

4) Yes SysEx is a more sophisticated MIDI standard protocol. They are commonly used for MIDI dump to save/load internal data like a banks/preset.
Depending on manufacturer and gear they are  sometimes used for parameters too e.g. Warldorf Microwave.
Yes the 2290 has a CV input for a resistive expression pedal or a CV of 0 to 5V, it exists physically but there's no feature(parameter) applied to, and nothing to attach it, I guess this the "future use" which was never implemented.

 

2 hours ago, Soeren Bendixen said:

I really like to keep my gear simple, So, instead of buying a MC6 ll, It might be possible to work on the Tc2290 - There is a guy in Denmark (where i live) who is capable of building midi into anything. And maybe he knows the TC2290 well. If the fix either is too expensive or not possible, i would like to know how one can build a Midibox core - I could buy it from somebody or buy the drawnings (schematiics..?) and make someone in Denmark build it for me.

Everything is open-source here, you can use everything, but adapting it to your need will require some study, you will need a dedicated control surface and some programming. This is not a big deal for someone who knows the MIDIBox platform but you have to find him. Open dedicated thread in Concept and ask, maybe someone will have the time to do it for you. You can try.

Best regards
Bruno

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Hi Bruno

Thank you - I Think i get it now.

I Will do some thinking.

I’m scared of building stuff, but maybe I Should give it a go.

 

thanks!

Best regards

søren

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Ok

one last question...:

If I just purchase the Mercury7 and insert into the TC2290 (the mono/stereo insert) - do you think I can go directly from the tc2290 midi out into the Mercury7 using a midi - Trs cable?

And then, for a start just skip the exp. pedal. 

Just Beeing able to change presets on the Mercury7 Via the TC2290

it seems like that all the extra gear is only because my wish to use exp.

i could just skip that and later on add this and maybe other Meris pedals

Best regards

Søren

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Alright!
Do this:

It works for me, it will work for you.

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On 9/2/2018 at 2:52 AM, Antichambre said:

Ok,

Try to simply do this, the point is to connect the 5V of the MIDI out to the 5V of the MIDI In to get the input optocoupler acting.
Fichier%2002-09-2018%2011%2026%2051.jpeg


Works fine for me on a Polymoon, receive and send. And cabling example:
Fichier%2002-09-2018%2011%2026%2007.jpg?


Normally the 220ohm already present in your MIDI output acts as current limiter, no need for more resistor.


Best
Bruno

Hey Bruno! Thank you for posting these details. I just bought a polymoon and was keen to build a single TRS > MIDI In/Out. I followed your wiring precisely, even verified it with a continuity tester and it doesn't appear to work. The only mistake I feel I could have made is having the view backwards. The pin 5 is marked on the back of my connector, so I assumed this was pin 5 in your drawing. Is it possible that this is inverted and shows the pins from the connector end?

 

Suggestions are welcome! I'm excited to make this work.

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52 minutes ago, Jeff Cross said:

I followed your wiring precisely, even verified it with a continuity tester and it doesn't appear to work.

Hi Jeff,
Just to be sure, the polymoon has to be configured for working in MIDI In and MIDI Out, did you do it?

Best
Bruno

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Posted (edited)

Hey Bruno,

I'm a bit new to the pedal, but I did indeed try this 2-3 times. It appeared to store the setting correctly.

Just to be crystal clear:

• set Expression mode: MIDI

• set MIDI Thru: (L) MIDI Out

• Global Tempo: R (L) global tempo

• MIDI Channel: 1

Then "power cycled" which I assume means to disconnect and connect the power adapter.

Should the knobs send MIDI that correspond to internal controllers, and also receive these controllers?

I noticed zero MIDI input on my interface (iConnectivity MIO10) and also, even configured to send clock, Logic did not set the tempo of the pedal.

I just tested it again and the polymoon's tempo remains constant no matter what tempo I'm sending. (sad face™)

 

Just to clarify, your wiring does not have any resistors inline? I'm doing a strain pin->pin wiring based on your grid-sketch above.

Also, thank you again for taking the time to explain this to us.

Edited by Jeff Cross

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I haven't got the procedure in mind, but remember the manual is very clear.
I've reopen the connectors of my cable, and compare, the diagram is fine.
Note: On the diagram,The DIN which has no ground connected(pin 2) must be connected to the MIDI In of your Interface, it's the Output of your pedal.

Best
Bruno

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