TK. Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 w/o words :-)http://www.midibox.org/midibox_fm/mbfm_demo1.mp3Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilo Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 ???what's that???SMD?an oscillator? (12.288Mhz + 4040??)tell us more!!!!!!! ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vercengetorex Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 SMD or not, I cannot wait for this project!!I need a nasty little FM synth I can build cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilo Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 it's seems like some digital stuff??(I can be wrong)...but the small pcb with the xtal seems to be a Lr clock generator? the big smd chip is a dsp? (alesis? al1301) and the small is an alesis DAC? (al1201?) and the last chip is an output buffer?(lm324?)am I dreaming? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 ohoh!is it time to dust off that old SB awe32?? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 ...on a upper board, bigger SMD on the right side is a yamaha YMF262, smaller is YAC512. ;DInformation gathered from TK's previous posts and having a look at Pro Audio Spectrum Soundcards pcb ;)Bye, Moebius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggle Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Those old yamaha FM chips are mad!especially if you write to the registers at high speed with mutating values! They have plenty of multi timbral polyphony for big sounds as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Those old yamaha FM chips are mad!Say what? 4Op FM (Dx100) is the second definitive element (apart from 909) on classic Detroit techno/house tracks.. Funky basses, leads, strange noises and squecks ;)especially if you write to the registers at high speed with mutating values! That's how its done ;)And checked the specs:Yamaha OPL3 (YMF262) Device 4 Operator FM Synthesis 20 Voice ChannelsAnd it's Stereo ;)Bye, Moebius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewMartens Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Wow, you work fast! I haven't even received my MBHP boards yet - first I have to build my SID, then I have to get going on my other chip synths.Unfortunately, it's Saturday and I'm at work AGAIN... things aren't boding well for this at the moment, but with any luck I'll have a new job in 3 weeks which should give me a bit of free time.You never cease to amaze, TK :) I'm looking forward to when a PCB is ready for this (though really, it seems simple enough to wire up on some stripboard)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 WOW!Who said you have to spend thousands on hardware synths!That sounds very sexxy, I hope we can hood them in parallel like the sid modules.Imagine 4 of those, 4 sid and a 909 (and my rs7000 for sequencing of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted October 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Bingo! Yes, it's the OPL3 :)I've started with a very basic driver which allows to trigger some notes, but - please be patient - a first version won't be released until end of this year. I need this time to find an optimal user interface and an optimal sound architecture (like Duggle mentioned: even more interesting sounds can be expected once the parameters are modulated via LFOs/ENVs/Wavetables).The prototype is not the final one. The selfmade 14.318MHz oscillator will be replaced by an integrated one, the LM314 by a TL074 for high quality sounds, I will add a second YAC512 for two additional audio channels (the YMF262 provides 4 seperate outputs), and finally I want to put this on a PCB. Hopefully the background noise disappears then (I think so...)Here a new example (the last for this month) - drums can be accessed via MIDI now - the bass is a killer! :-) http://www.midibox.org/midibox_fm/mbfm_demo2.mp3Pilo: like in the first example the delay/chorus/etc effects are made with external VST effects - sorry, no DSP ;-)Andrew: today I received a AtariST from an ebay auction (for 1 EUR) - looking forward for your YM2149F synth! :)Best Regards, Thorsten.P.S.: please don't start to desolder the SMD chips from old soundcards if you never did this before. I will provide a desoldering guide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Hey...Howzabout getting a list together of the soundcards/devices these chips are on...?Great stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phattline Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Oh its time to go in the recycling cente, and to take a look in to the electronic crap tun.? how old they must be, (the soundcards) like 486 or 150 Mhz times or older or newer- Or should I take alle cards I find - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phattline Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 ahhh opl3-this is a generation before the wavetables-thats very old-how old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggle Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 This family of chips OPL3 etc were on all of the "Soundblaster compatable" soundcards right up until the SB AWE. This means early to right through to late 1990's. There were many millions produced. These should be easy to find at second hand computer markets and cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosone Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 great, something to do after the sid... :-)a list of the needed material would be great, so that i can begin the search!!! :-)thorsten, you are great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmailed Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 i hear that the sega megadrive also has an fm chip inside (the same as in the yamaha TX81Z.. 7 or 8 dx7's in a box) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggle Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 More info and data sheet here:http://members.chello.nl/h.otten/vortexion.htmsee YMF262 and datasheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 i hear that the sega megadrive also has an fm chip inside (the same as in the yamaha TX81Z.. 7 or 8 dx7's in a  box)YM2612 has more or less different specs than YMF262 - there are many generations of FM chips around. (tx81z is multitimbral alright, but it's still 4op (vs. DX7's 6) - so less is more, or.. what?)Bye, Moebius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewMartens Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 When I started wiring up my newly-arrived Core & SID modules last night, I remembered that a few years back I had pulled the old soundcard out of my 486 (when I started using it as a router). After finding it in a drawer full of parts, guess what I found?That's right, a YMF262! The one old soundcard that I have, and it's got the right chip on there. Hooray!The card is a "Mediamagic ISP-16", for those who are looking for old ISA soundcards to loot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 The only old sound card I have has an es1869 on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_Haverland Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Hi there,i found an old soundblaster in my reservoire...yamaha YM3812 on it. Seems to be the original opl2 chip, but i cant find any specs / datasheets for this one anymore. (am i too dumb for google?)is there any type of compatibility to the opl3 chips?anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewMartens Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Hi there,i found an old soundblaster in my reservoire...yamaha YM3812 on it. Seems to be the original opl2 chip, but i cant find any specs / datasheets for this one anymore. (am i too dumb for google?)is there any type of compatibility to the opl3 chips?anyone?I won't make any comments about Google here, but I believe someone posted this URL earlier: http://members.chello.nl/h.otten/vortexion.htmIt has a link to the YM3812 datasheet, which can be accessed directly here: http://www.funet.fi/pub/msx/mirrors/msx2.com/vortexion/ym3812.pdfRegarding OPL2 vs. OPL3, I think that the YMF262 was the first chip supporting OPL3 (and was also backwards-compatible to OPL2). Still, the YM3812 might make a cool project - maybe TK will get to that after his YMF262 FM synth ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmailed Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 hi Thorsten (and everyone else..) i found an interview with martin walker, who used to program for these chips..http://interview.sonikmatter.com/data/martin_walker.phphe works for Sound On Sound magazine now... he posts on their forums quite often... he is helpful generally.. if you have any problems writing the drivers he might be able to help, if he has time and feels like it of course.. if you email the magazine then i think they will put you in touch with him..www.soundonsound.comhere are extracts from the interview..Most of the hardware classics are already being revisited in software form, and Native Instruments' FM7 takes FM synthesis to new heights, again because it's much easier to use than the original. I missed out on FM synthesis the first time round, but met it at the deep end when programming a sound editor for Sega's Megadrive games console, which effectively contained a Yamaha TX81Z that I had to talk to at chip level. I fell in love with its unique timbres, especially the metallic and bell-like sounds, but the beauty of dealing with synthesis at a low level is that you can investigate anything that takes your fancy. I found adding a little randomness at various places to the algorithms gave FM a more living, breathing quality.and...-------------------------------------------------------With the other game machines you got a few channels of square or pulse waves, plus hopefully some white noise, and from these primitive elements you had to extract the last drop of creativity. I worked at sound chip level, programming in assembly language, so that I could manipulate the chip registers every 1/50th of a second. Thus, chords could be created as very fast arpeggios to give the illusion of a bigger sound, while bass drums started with a tiny chiff of noise, followed by a decaying tone, and snare drums oscillated between noise and tone, again at 50 times per second. Sega's Megadrive was more fun, since this had the same Yamaha FM chip as the TX81Z, but I used similar techniques to manipulate the sounds, so that I could get sword clashes, gunshots, and even running water, by rapidly altering the parameters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Well,Nice story. It gives some good tips on low level FM programming. But it's a bit annoying, that he keeps repeating an incorrect information about Sega Genesis having the same soundchip as Yamaha TX81z ;)Bye, Moebius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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