d2k Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Hey...Just come across this:http://www.mainlinegroup.co.uk/mless/main.php?act=Card&id_element=3938I remember the idea of using these in a mios system has been talked of before but did anything come of it?Couldn't find any info on the chips they mention in the description tho....any1 got any idea?? BestD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 *bump*c'mon i know say some of ya got some ideas with these!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shed Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 i think when people first started talking about these the idea was to use em for mixing surround.I think they have them now on the digidesign flagship surface insted of having joystics. But as far as i can tell thats only cos someone took out a patent on joysticks in mixers or something. I cant realy see a huge advantage over a joystick. I mean it faily friging annoying having these on a laptop!ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 nah man, doubt that tru - patenting joysticks?? neve been usin em for time, p+g make loads of types etc etc...It wudnt be used for surround sound panning - at least not for me, and besides with mios we can use it to send any midi data - cc, pitch, mod whatever...in this application i think theyd work great as a controlling device...anyway, dun seem theres much interest unless the bodz out there are keepin the implementation under theyre hats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming_Rabbit Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 nah man, doubt that tru - patenting joysticks?? neve been usin em for time, p+g make loads of types etc etc...Harrison patented joysticks FOR MIXING APPLICATIONS not joysticks at all  ;)1996 Harrison introduced first automated jostick in mixers (patent pending)2000 Harrison is awarded the patent for automated motorized joystick innovationhttp://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=concepts;action=display;num=1084655389;start=6#6http://www.glw.comMe personally don't care about patents, since I don't sell my MidiBox. But the price smells much better than the one for motorized joysticks.  :PI mean it faily friging annoying having these on a laptop! ... I think it's not the same junk-feel as on a laptop because the resolution of the distance of movement can be much bigger than the max. controller value range.Or like it bigger? http://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=concepts;action=display;num=1098688897;start=0#0  ;DGreets, Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 seems the search function wudda proved usefull ere ::) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 With "Common sense" I'd have thought that when motorized joysticks become available, it's just natural progression to use them in surround panning, instead of normal joysticks, but noo.. It's an innovation!And maybe someone has patented "a method to check if hyperlink points to the correct document", and Harrison hasn't got a licence, as link in their page points to some M$ patent ;D (Or is this some Opera issue?)Bye, Moebius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 There are so many junk patents here that you can't create anything without infringement. In the past it was not possible to patent an idea that is an obvious extension of existing technology. That's not the case these days!Using a force-feedback controller for mixing/controlling audio is an extension of existing technology, and last time I checked Atari had all the patents relating to force feedback controls. (they did pioneer this technology, spent the R&D money to figure out what works, etc.)So with industry knowledge of Atari's patents on motorized joysticks, any patents that are issued for the -use- of that core technology are junk patents, not in the spirit of protecting IP but to force other companies not to use existing technologies in a competing product.Then you have the Chinese and other fresh industrial countries who could not grow thier economy correctly without ignoring IP rights. More power to them. They steal a lot of IP, but a lot of the IP that they steal is not rightfully patented anyway!Here in the US some of my light fixture and control designs infringe many junk patents, but yet my designs are unique enough to be granted thier own patents. That's a huge problem....A perfect example is Color Kinetic's patent on using LED's for color mixing. CK did not invent any diode, or RGB LED's, but they have a patent on using LED's for color mixing in -any- application.Lighting people have been mixing primary colors since the dawn of theatre, with dyes for color filters in front of flame lamps way before electricity. Why should one company be allowed to keep a patent on something that is a suggested use of an off-the-shelf component/technology, when they contributed nothing to the technology or furthering the art? Only one possible answer: To eliminate competition. In some countries the patent system is paid for by taxpayers, so when talking with your elected officials let them know that you don't like funding large (profiteering) companies' ability to eliminate competition.My solution: Ship fixtures to another country with more reasonable IP laws, slap a "made in xxx" decal on them, then import them knowing that CK and the other would be competition killers don't want to sue me where my product is not infringing a patent........I know that sounds a bit anti-American to replace "made in USA" with "made in xxx", but it was only assembled here, as with all electronics these days the components come from everywhere but the US.Sorry for more than two cents on this one.....been holding in that rant for a while. ;)To the console manufacturer afraid of Harrison: Build it, Pay license fees to the people who own the core technology patents (Atari, Microsoft, whoever) and if they (Harrison) sues, produce the relevant patents on the core technology itself, and Harrison will lose in court because their patent is based on an obvious intended use of existing technology, not a true innovation.Thoughts? comments?Best!Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming_Rabbit Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Hey SmashTVYou always impress me with your knowledge in all those aspects! Â :o... but I hope d2k's thread doesn't go in a wrong direction, since the cause of the implementation of touchpads isn't patent but cost dependent.Again: I always apprechiate your comments, this isn't an offense!Greets, Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 THIS particular unit is Apple SURPLUS from year 1993, when they were still using their ingenious ADB for connecting input (ect.) devices - Powered from the bus, cascaded.. Hey, THAT sound familiar ;) But this seems like integrated device from some old Powerbook. No data on protocol or interface.. not worth trouble.Yeah, yeah.. go bug Duggle.. or then again, don't ;)THERE: http://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=concepts;action=display;num=1067480170From there you can read, that Duggle has made progress with PS2 to midi conversion, but haven't posted any updates for a while, so I guess he's been busy as he said. This has an advantage of supporting any PS2 devices, there's no trouble interfacing or decoding data from the device.. (maybe only what you want to DO with that data)I don't know if Thorsten has got in to it: http://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=concepts;action=display;num=1084655389Yup - and those PS2 surplus touchpads are available from http://www.voti.nl for under 5 euros..Pheww..Moebiusp.s. I guess NOW I can post reply to Smash's excellent rant ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 hehe sorry for almost derailing the topic! This is a huge assumption on my part (until I dig up a modern pad to tear up), but don't most touch pads have two variable resistance lines that could be properly scaled and read by an AIN? I know I have de-constructed at least one that worked that way (4 wires, 2 ground 1X, 1Y)......Am I remembering all the way back to the C64 Koalapads on this?Best!Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 I don't know if Thorsten has got in to it: http://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=concepts;action=display;num=1084655389I purchased two touchpads from cannibalized laptops. They have a lot of pins, but no documemtation. I guess that some pins are for the PS2 interface, but I don't want to do identify the IOs with the mouse/keyboard port of my PC (to avoid any damage)So, I'm just waiting for the first release of Duggle's PS2 project. Currently both of us have other things to do ;-)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming_Rabbit Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 but don't most touch pads have two variable resistance lines that could be properly scaled and read by an AIN?1. The question is, how high is the max resistance?http://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=parts_q;action=display;num=1103305075recommented impedance for the ADC suggested in the PIC18F datasheet. 1k..10k ... or could that be done with an appropriate resistor connected in parallel and then just scale MIOS to this range?2. When implemented in MIOS like a potentiometer, the physical touch position would be absolute (means: the controller value would jump to this position). To replace a motorized joystick, the touch position should be relative to the current parameter value.3. Since I think that a regular laptop pad would be to small for surround control device, would a touch screen (resistive type) work? They're available pretta cheap.Perhaps this could be programmed when working with the AIN...?Greets, Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 So, I'm just waiting for the first release of Duggle's PS2 project.Way to go Thorsten - Sharing the Fun ;DSmash, yes - I guess that KoalaPads worked just like that (and drove the paddle pins of a SID :P)Modern equivalents seem to use "matrix scanning" and capacitive properties of a pointing object to determinate position.. http://www.synaptics.com/technology/cps.cfmBye, Moebius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggle Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Hi all,Yes, the prototype PS2Midi converter has made significant progress. 4xPS2 Ports with basic keyboard and mouse autodect support, midi merge, have been implemented (using old 16F877 etc). Yes, some more exciting projects tend to steal time from this but I do revisit it regularly and will release the design in the next month or so.In the mean time, I ask people to keep a lookout for a source of cheap guarranteed PS2 touchpads (e.g VOTI seems to have one). Also, more detailed specifications on PS2 keyboard behaviour than is normally hit in a common google search. In particular I have noticed that the scan codes of certain keys are unexpectedly altered when the numlock LED is activated. I cant find info on this anywhere. It is easy to workaround but more info would help.cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Best info I could find is here.Some interesting work there, has source code for using a PIC as a mouse replacement sending ps/2......Best!Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickw Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Motorised joysticks were mentioned earlier in this thread.I don't know if this is old news, but ALPS has them listed athttp://www3.alps.co.jp/cgi-bin/WebObjects/catalog.woa/wa/keyWordSearch?key=rkjxf&keywordMode=and&language=english&country=ge&top_mode=2003&Search.x=0&Search.y=0or if this link is dodgy search their site for rkjxfHappy New Year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming_Rabbit Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 I don't know if this is old news, but ALPS has them listed atYes it's old news ;D ... have a look at the electric specifications ;) ... Pot resistance / Motor voltageGreets, Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.