Jidis Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 How big of a difference is there between the common MIDI interface standards? This would be for a rig with probably a single device, streaming controller stuff in and out. How about for other purposes, like real time note messages, multiple devices, etc.? I've never seen a definitive answer to this.I'm running a 2x2 USB MIDISport on an A7N8X-E board and have had it disappear on me a few times for no obvious reasons. I replaced the cable with a brand new one the other night, but I somehow doubt that's the problem. I've always been afraid of USB and I do have built in MIDI on the 15 pin here. -Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Uhm, in short... USB is crap crap crap. Sell your midisport to some poor soul who doesn't care, and buy a better but older interfface with the money, then take your girlfriend to dinner with the change ;)USB is great for the consumer and the mildly computer illiterate, because most of the time you can just plug it in and it goes. So it's great for your Mum to use if she wants to install a printer, or for your young children to plug in a camera and automatically download photos...etc...Because of this, and because we live in a society where "majority rules, even though the majority are fools", USB has become a standard. Once something gets that popular, humans being the sheep that we are, do not ask questions. It's a subconcsious "well it's what everyone else uses, it must be OK"Well I for one don't buy it. (pun intended)It's buggy and slow and most importantly for high-end audio stuff, it interrupts your CPU. It causes skips in audio, jumps and lags in MIDI, screen redraw problems... Basically anything that uses the CPU gets paused when USB feels like it.IMHO, USB took off purely as a result of the MS/Intel alliance putting heaps of cash behind the protocol and flooding the market in order to compete with firewire for market share. The fact is, most computers users are PC users, not mac. When all the PC's start to have USB interfaces built in, and you can no longer buy an intel chipset without the interface, the interface becomes a pseudo standard. It's certainly not the first time that MS have twisted the industry standards in order to have things their own way. This is not some anti wintel argument, heck I'm a wintel techo among other things, and I really like a lot of MS's features... But I'm just calling it how I see it.I've found that when the CPU is a bit maxxed out (you know, too many VSTi running, 99% CPU... We've all been there ;) ) serial MIDI interfaces can sometimes get a bit laggy and drift. Sometimes. Cheapo soundcard onboard MIDI is not really designed for heavy/pro use, most SB cards will easily crap themselves if they have a long enough sysex string sent or recieved (especially recieved). Personally I recommend Parallel MIDI interfaces, and they're really bloody cheap now because the majority don't want them cause they're old ("I want new toys" syndrome). (Parallel MIDI interfaces that were $800 on ebay last year or two are now $100)Best, but more expensive, is a MIDI interface on a PCI card (I've never seen a PCI card with MIDI but no audio...anyone else?).... I haven't had the opportunity to test any firewire midi interfaces so I shouldn't comment, but I will go out on a limb and say that they're probably very good too.It is imperative that you turn off stupid ACPI and IRQ steering (grrrr!!! another wintel strongarm tactic) and manually set IRQ's for the PCI cards in your PC's BIOS, and disable the USB interface in the BIOS (Just disabling in windows will not help, the interface is still active, just being ignored by the drivers that way). If you don't do these things then don't expect good performance in any CPU intensive area, no matter what your choice of peripherals and software. Which PCI card is in which slot also has an effect on performance, as two slots are shared, and the cards are accessed in slow order... So your audio interfaces should be in the first PCI slots where available. Your mobo has wireless lan in it, I would definitely turn that off!! PS there's a little info on this from EM mag and the man currently responsible for the MIDI standard ... Just in case you don't think I'm 'pro' enough to make thse statements ;) http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_letters_5/More backup for my opinion from SOS... read the recap bit http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Oct02/articles/pcmusician1002.aspA bit of searching on google will find (under other names) me making this same tirade about 5 years ago. My apologies to anyone in the industry but...... I TOLD YOU SO!! :PI should add that although I personally can't stand the fact that USB even exists, let alone is still being used... It does have it's advantages (see above), so it's really a matter of what is most important to you. If you've got a dual xeon with 16g of ram you probably won't max it out too often and these interruptions would not rate as such an issue. And you should donate your PC to me ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Hi,I think that the results of the MIDI benchmark says it all: http://69.56.171.55/~midibox/forum/index.php?topic=2342.0Best interface I've seen so far: the one of my RME hammerfall (firewire connection, < 0.1 mS delay, +/- 0.04 mS Jitter), Worst measuring results: midisport 2x2 (USB connection, up to 10 mS delay, +/- 2.3 mS Jitter)The PC load is not taken into account (don't know how to measure this)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jidis Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 stryd_one,Thanks for all the info! I think I actually remember that EM article. I never really trusted USB either for some reason. The USB interface was something I was forced into when Apple killed the serial ports (and my Opcode box). It moved to the PC after I could no longer run my Parallel Portman (MIDISport predecessor, I suppose). That one stops at 98 and Nuendo is now XP/2k only.I may try some different ones this week and see what I get. My requirements are quite modest and the timing (sequencing) issues may not be as much of a problem for me. The bandwidth and the different interfaces ability to disturb the rest of my system is important, as is the security of knowing that the device won't disappear in the middle of a session.Nuendo 3 is using a USB dongle (excessively, I might add), so turning it off wouldn't work here.My next project will most likely be a MIDIBox64. I may go with the direct COM interface. I'm anxious to see what turns up in the near future for DIY MIDI interfaces. The only one I ever found was the MaxMIDI circuit and I thought it was too dated to build now. I'd have no problem trusting something from here. Thorsten, thanks for the tip on the MIDISport. I guess that's another reason to try to find something better.                -George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jidis Posted February 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Sorry to raise this up from the dead. :o :o :oBut, have there been any DIY advances in this area which I may not have seen? I've seen the Harmony Central DIY MIDI page, Paul Messick's serial port box (Win95/3.1), and most recently, this single port: http://www.xs4all.nl/~marcmarc/ele/sm/midicent.htmUSB MIDI still sort of scares me from past experiences. I grabbed a MOTU MicroExpress about a month after this post last year, and it set a new, and possibly unsurpassable low in my book for the worst audio hardware drivers in the history of mankind. It sucks too because the box is absolutely perfect for what I wanted. I'd like something with decent bandwidth and multiple, separate ports (no "thru" type chains), and a nice solid, reliable connection to the host with no other ill effects on the CPU,app,or OS. It would obviously need a driver which XP/2K and Nuendo (v.3) would agree with and find all the available ports. I'd like to be able to chain a bit of redundant junk (clocks, modules, and of course MIDIBoxes) on the line without them interfering with, or slowing each other down, and be able to switch devices easily (via host app), eliminating the need for my other "not-so-trustworthy" JLCooper patchbay.I *thought* there was a discussion by someone here who had actually designed one and wasn't finished or wasn't satisfied with something about it? The "driver impaired" Portman box here has 2 or 3 PIC's in it, as it's main guts, so I guess there are capable PIC's for that.Worst case, I may just look for another popular outdated commercial box with better support. (or any support >:()If anyone's got any new info, I'd appreciate it.Take Care!George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moebius Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 No info just rant :)In the PCs (as in Personal Computer) user has always been the weakest (and the cheapest link of them all)Mac vs. IBM PCSCSI vs. IDEUSB vs. FireWireThe herd has spoken with its wallets and look where it's got them? As cheap and "good enough" goes, it forces everybody along. You don't get a TOOL but something disposable as the next generation obsoletes the old one that was the "INcredible New Thing" 2 years ago.But - I'd say, go for the Firewire (IEEE 1394), should good enough for supporting both audio and midi HW and even external storage (for recording/playback) in the same time. Sadly haven't really seen 8x8 firewire midi-interfaces, but these probably exist. ;DMoebiusp.s. Hmm.. Uh, Boy, did I have fun once when playing with Digital Video camera - it had also support for still images (with smartmedia). What did they think?!? [cursing censored] It had Firewire for DV link AND USB for downloading the still images. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jidis Posted February 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 @ Moebius-Sadly, Firewire is one of the few integrated motherboard circuits I can safely keep disabled at the studio. :'(I am getting sort of tired and worried about hauling around these removable IDE caddies, and have considered switching over to externals, but that will likely be USB2.0. I'm guessing that way, I'll also be able to access them on other (USB1) machines with no additional cards.BTW- I've usually got at least one caddy traveling with me to the studio each night (often three). They either ride in a plastic grocery bag, my book bag, my food bag (sometimes along with an ice pack), or I'm just carrying them loose. This has gone on for a few years, and they've each been kicked, dropped and stepped on more than I can count. I'm currently trying to retrieve my data from my main home/online machine's system drive which died Monday, and I've witnessed the deaths of numerous other internal HD's. All three caddied drives still work flawlessly. (now they'll probably all die next week ;))Anyone remember who that was in here with the multiport MIDIface project?Thanks Again!George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I think FireWire is much better. It's 400MBit/s full duplex. USB 2.0 is theoretically faster (480MBit/s), but it's half-duplex. Because of this FW is more stable I think, but I can't test it, because I don't have a FW port and device.I have a question, that is a bit off-topic: does anybody know some affordable RS232 to USB adapter chips? I would like to build an IR reciever, but for USB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I have a question, that is a bit off-topic: does anybody know some affordable RS232 to USB adapter chips? I would like to build an IR reciever, but for USB.http://www.ftdichip.com/Look for the FT232 chip. It costs about 6€ in germany (Reichelt).Raphael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I have a question, that is a bit off-topic: does anybody know some affordable RS232 to USB adapter chips? I would like to build an IR reciever, but for USB.http://www.cesko.host.sk/IgorPlugUSB/IgorPlug-USB%20(AVR)_eng.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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