midibox64e_v2_2 question

[LX]

Hi all

I've question about midibox64e_v2_2 application. If I understand right routing of DIN & DOUT, I can connect 64 DIN and 64 DOUT for buttons at first 8 shift registers + 32 encoders with LEDrings at next 8 shift registers.

This is setup for my MidiBox:

DIN ->  1-8 SR  for 64 buttons, 9-16 SR for 32 encoder

DOUT -> 1-8 SR for 64 buttons LED, 9-16 SR for 32 LED rings

I can use 16 SR for DIN and 16 SR for DOUT. Is it possible?

Thanks for reply

LX

[TK.]

Yes, this setup is possible

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[LX]

Thanks TK

Now I know, that my way is right. :D

Best regards

LX

[Sinnsyk]

Hi

Let me raise a question too, it's basically the same, with a slightly different setup.

I've checked the midibox 64E pages, and I came across this little peace of text:

# the superb solution: use 8 "group select" and 8 "bank select" buttons to select also the banks with a single touch (SFB "FF 01 00" to "FF 01 07" and "FF 02 00" to "FF 02 07")

# the deluxe solution: use 2 * 8 additional LEDs and map the appr. DOUT shift registers to the group and bank number.

So, if I understand this well, I can connect up to 128 virtuel encoders (with max 64 real-live encs), to control 1 bank. But, if I switch a bank (with a bankstick or the internal banks), can I control another 128 virtual encoders? Is this a way to connect up to numberofbanks * 128 virtual encoders, and control them with 1 - 64 real-live encoders? In that way, you can control more parameters than you can think of, if u use a few Banksticks? Or is this not true?

For my soon-to-be-build midibox 64E, I want to connect 40 encoders, and preferrably as much buttons as possible. I don't know if it's possible, but I've read somewhere on uCaps that you can connect pots and faders as well with an AIN module. But, what's the maximum of connectable faders, knobs, pots, led's, LEDrings I can connect when I'm really freaking out and go berserk with connecting knobs pots faders leds ledrings and encoders? And how many DIN AIN DOUT modules do I need then?

My own calculation told me that I needed 80 DIN's for the Encoders, that's a minimum of 3 DINX4 modules, right?

I can connect like 48 buttons at the remaining DIN's, if I make a 4th DINX4 module, and put it on the chain.

The next problem, I want to have a few faders as well, so I need to connect a AIN module as well.

And at least, we need LED-rings (LED's are cheap and I have money, so), and that will be a minimum of 3 DOUT modules as well. But, for the buttons, I want to have some leds that indicate the state of that button, so I need to connect some conventional Led's as well. So, that will be another DOUT module.

I have read a lot on uCaps, but I can't find a real answer to this. Well, as u see, I did some thinking and guessing, but I would like to know for sure before I order some parts and find out that it's too much for 1 CORE module.

[stryd_one]

I'm going to address this "What's the maximum number of...." thing on the wiki tonight. It has to be the #1 most asked question and it's not there!  :P

[Sinnsyk]

Yeah, well, there are some examples of setups, but I can't answer this question with that examples. At least, not for sure. I keep crossing over from the MidiBox64 to a MidiBox 64E, and I can't really define what the 'real' differences are, only that you can handle encoders with a 64E. But you can connect up to 64 Encoders, but then you don't have any room left for buttons, or faders & pots. They need a AIN, but can you connect 4 DINX4's and 1 AIN? I really don't know  ???

[stryd_one]

OK I'll post here and paste into the wiki...gimme a while :)

[illogik]

just a kickstart for you (and stryd  ;) );

from mios introduction page;

One core module, stuffed with a PIC18F452, can handle with:

    * up to 128 digital inputs

    * up to 128 digital outputs

    * up to 64 analog inputs

    * character and graphical dotmatrix LCDs

    * BankSticks (IIC EEPROMs)

    * one MIDI In, one MIDI Out, optionally as to-COM interface

these are maximum values only, less is always possible

But you can connect up to 64 Encoders, but then you don't have any room left for buttons, or faders & pots. They need a AIN, but can you connect 4 DINX4's and 1 AIN? I really don't know

no room for buttons, but still room for 64 faders or pots since these are AIN which you haven't used yet

I keep crossing over from the MidiBox64 to a MidiBox 64E, and I can't really define what the 'real' differences are, only that you can handle encoders with a 64E.

thats because they are very similar;

at first the MB64E was here as an alternative to MB64 so you could use encoders. at that stage MB64E wasn't made for using AIN aswell, this was changed because there are a lot of people like you that wanted to mix the 2 input methods.

cheers, marcel

[Sinnsyk]

Hm thanks.

But it got me thinking. If it sais: MidiBox 64, I would expect a maximum of 64 inputs, buttons ór encoders. Can I connect 128 buttons to a MidiBox 64E, if I need that? Or does the MidiBox 64 handle 64 real-input-devices, and the only difference is that a encoder uses 2 inputs, but shows up as 1?

And do you know an answer for this?

I've checked the midibox 64E pages, and I came across this little peace of text:

# the superb solution: use 8 "group select" and 8 "bank select" buttons to select also the banks with a single touch (SFB "FF 01 00" to "FF 01 07" and "FF 02 00" to "FF 02 07")

# the deluxe solution: use 2 * 8 additional LEDs and map the appr. DOUT shift registers to the group and bank number.

So, if I understand this well, I can connect up to 128 virtuel encoders (with max 64 real-live encs), to control 1 bank. But, if I switch a bank (with a bankstick or the internal banks), can I control another 128 virtual encoders? Is this a way to connect up to numberofbanks * 128 virtual encoders, and control them with 1 - 64 real-live encoders? In that way, you can control more parameters than you can think of, if u use a few Banksticks? Or is this not true?

[illogik]

But it got me thinking. If it sais: MidiBox 64, I would expect a maximum of 64 inputs, buttons ór encoders.

then your expectations are incorrect ;) it doesn't say MB64Inputs afterall

Can I connect 128 buttons to a MidiBox 64E, if I need that?

for one core module you have 128 digital input; a button uses 1 digital input a encoder uses 2.

so you could but you wouldn't be able to add encoders or more buttons without adding an extra core

r does the MidiBox 64 handle 64 real-input-devices, and the only difference is that a encoder uses 2 inputs, but shows up as 1?

no this is, like explained above a wrong interpretation of the name MB64(E); 64 is the max number of encoders or pots you can connect without adding more core modules. (buttons are "real input devices" too)

So, if I understand this well, I can connect up to 128 virtuel encoders (with max 64 real-live encs), to control 1 bank. But, if I switch a bank (with a bankstick or the internal banks), can I control another 128 virtual encoders? Is this a way to connect up to numberofbanks * 128 virtual encoders, and control them with 1 - 64 real-live encoders? In that way, you can control more parameters than you can think of, if u use a few Banksticks? Or is this not true?

this is true, if i understand you, welcome to the magik of midibox ;D and..;

you need only one bankstick; you get 8 banks= 1024 parameters but;

Note that with V2.x up to 8 BankSticks can be connected to the MIDIbox, so that up to 64 Banks

:o

cheers, marcel

btw, i just build MB64E with 8 encoders & buttons+ ledrings, but i think the most flexible solution would still be the common version (TK's version)> 16 encoders/16 buttons

[Sinnsyk]

Thanks for your answer :)

Hehe, if u have 8 banksticks, you have 64 banks, so 64 * 128 = 8192 parameters.

I don't think any instrument has that many parameters, and if it does, searching for the one you want to change takes ages.  :P

I'm gonna work on my design, now that I know how many pots faders and leds I can use. Thanks!

[Sinnsyk]

Hm, I've been thinking about my design, and I came up with some question marks :)

I've got a 6 channel setup (quickly made with paint), and as u can see I have 5 buttons at the left. I want to switch the 3 rotary encoders to 5 different groups (with a LED indicator), so that I have 5 * 3 virtual encoders / channel.

I was thinking about some buttons/channel too, but then I was wondering, can I do the same 'grouping' trick as with the encoders? If that's possible (I guess, with some coding?), then I want to use the encoders from smashtv with the build-in button. A led would indicate the state of that button in a different colour as the led-ring. That would be another 5 * 3 virtual buttons as well..

Is this possible/do-able?

midibox.JPG

[TK.]

You can already switch between the groups with "special function buttons" -> http://www.ucapps.de/midibox64e/midibox64e_sfb_table.txt

With 15 encoders, a group should consist of 16 parameters (this is the default setting).

128 parameters are available

Makes: 8 groups

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Sinnsyk]

Yes, I know that there are the special functions  :) I was planning to use them for the function button 1-5

But, I was wondering, can you group 'buttons' and encoders at the same time? Does a parameter contain 1 button or 1 encoder?

So, you select group 1, and the encoders and buttons are acting like preset in group 1, and then u switch to group 2, and then the encoders ánd the buttons are acting like they would do in group 2.

I have 18 encoders and 18 buttons.. any suggestions?

[TK.]

No, it doesn't work with buttons. This is something that somebody has to build into the application - I would like to see that variations of MB64E will be made available for public.

Grouping 18 encoders: thats more difficult than grouping 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, but it's not impossible. It would already work if you don't rely on the LCD output

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Sinnsyk]

Thanks :) So I need to do it with some software, I guess.

Final question: If I have 8 encoders grouped in 4 groups or something, can I still add some ungrouped encoders for basic functions, like the BPM, that don't switch if u switch a group.

I'm still a total n00b with MIDIbox, but hopefully I'll create something usefull for this community someday  :P

[TK.]

No, this cannot be done with MB64E

The problem is, that this is an overfeatured generic application

Overfeatured mostly means: no place for even more variants

Generic means: a lot of possibilities, but hard to integrate special adaptions

However, the things you've described here can be easily programmed with the C wrapper. By doing so, you won't get all the MB64E feature (e.g. configuration via .ini file, online editing of MIDI events on LCD, morphing, etc...) but you propably will never use them anyhow

So: go for C, here you can realize all you need.

Best Regards, Thorsten-