i need a lot of help building my midi box

[buxie]

hello, i have an mc-600 organ and a PSR 540 keyboard. to cut a story short i would like to program 707 individual led buttons to the 707 different sounds on the keyboard so i can manually change the sounds of the keyboard by pressing one individual button when i am playing my organ. I currently have the keyboard connected via midi so the upper manual of my organ has the sounds of the keyboard on it.thing is i dont have a clue where to start and if it can be built. plzzzzzz some one help me, wayne

[QBAS]

hi if I good understand you need 707 buttons with light!

707 individual led buttons

sound like my old project MB96pots ;D.

707 take big area of space! maybe is better for you grouping this 7 x 101.

You can of course build any kind of controller - but 707 led buttons for shure isn`t discrette.

are you shure is need 707 direct buttons?

If yes you can reprogram sm16x16 program (scan matrix for 256 buttons) to 1024 , and add the same led matrix.

This takes only one core module.

Another case is connect together 6 cores in one box. This give you direct 707 buttons and led without programming effort.

[stryd_one]

to cut a story short

What's the long story?  ;) I wonder why you need access to all 707 presets in one song..... Could be a heck of a performance! Moreover I'd be impressed if anyone could remember all 707 sounds for all 707 presets!  :)

[buxie]

well i need more than 707. when im playin a song ide like to just boom, hit the sounds i want on in stead of leanin over to the keyboard and puttin in a 3 digit number that i have to memmorise cause the 4 banks arnt adequate enough. ide like some buttons to control effects and volumes so ide probably go for 1024 buttons one but i have nooo idea on earth how to make this lol and i dunno hot to do programmin or anythin, the only thing i cud do is cuttin the holes in my organ to put the buttons. ide probably need circle buttons which somehow light up when pressed but the buttons dont stay pressed in. i cud print off little names and put them to the button some how. cause what im aiming to do is for example 1024 buttons to control the 707 different sounds on the keyboard and the rest to control effects and volumes so when im playin my organ i can push say drawbars button and the keyboard changes straight to drawbars so i can hear that on my organ with out touchin my keyboard and havin to put in the stupid 3 digit number.

[DavidBanner]

you want to build a midi box with 1024 buttons? :o

[Mr modnaR]

i tell you what: Toshio Iwai will be jealous.

[OrganGrinder]

i would like to program 707 individual led buttons to the 707 different sounds on the keyboard so i can manually change the sounds of the keyboard by pressing one individual button when i am playing my organ.

i've been considering the use of a general midi module on an organ, thats 128 patches on 15 channels shared between 3-4 manuals (incl pedals), plus the drum channel (used as traps rather than rhythm).  considering the space required, i found it unrealistic to try to provide enough buttons to allow the number of combinations that are possible, especially when each channel only handles one patch at a time.

The idea i have been toying with is to create a midibox with lcd display and buttons and/or encoders to select through a menu system to allocate and deallocate patches to the various manuals.  while the control surface is not in use, the display shows the status of the midi channels (probably showing which manual each channel is listening to and the output patch name) and displaying the menu options while the controls are being used.

of course such a system could be customised for any specific sound module.

i haven't gone beyond a basic design concept at this time, but it seems my idea is an extension (at least conceptually) to the midifilter/processor project.  I was thinking of using this as my first attempt at a full blown programming project with midibox.

now if i was going to develop this with individual buttons for each patch, just for the sound patches i am looking at 512 buttons (4*128), probably with individual leds so i know what is switched on.  but i would have to work out how i will handle the situation where:

1: i switch on more patches than the midi module will handle,

2: how to setup the buttons so they are easily usable, 4 rows of 128 columns works out very big plus i need to label (legibly) every column (at least) on the button board.

now i am not trying to discourage you from your project idea, it is just the what you have proposed requires a fair amount of construction effort (meaning time and possibly money) and i encourage you to plan everything out, review alternative layouts, make sure you haven't left out anything.  i suggest you prepare as much as possible, because with the time and expense of building your project, you don't want to find out that you forgot to add something, or could have done the layout better; half way through construction.

if you go ahead with what you proposed, please do a write up for the Wiki, also i would like to see pictures of it too.

OrganGrinder

[buxie]

oh i promise i will get it done no matter the cost its not an issue its just you cant walk in a shop and buy one lol i got all the time in the world as im 16 lol. shouldnt take more than a couple of years max to fully build i just need sum one to tell me what components im gonna need and how to get them, thx for the info, wayne

[stryd_one]

well i need more than 707. when im playin a song ide like to just boom, hit the sounds i want

I will paypal you 2c for every one of the 707 sounds, if you can recite them all (I mean, tell me what the sound is, it's harmonic content, timing, etc), from memory, on the fly, at random, in the middle of a performance.

That's $14.14, just waiting for you, if you can actually do it. I think you're either a) trawling or b) delusional...and if you really can do it, I think you might be autistic! ;)

Dude, you don't need that many buttons. Save yourself some time and money and effort and rethink your project. Or just ignore me ;)

[QBAS]

My last project (next) is about 4 lcds(2x40)+90 pots+40 swith/led. But the area! 80cm x 40cm is not too handy  :-\

I have remembered what I have made. I have created controll for 99 track seq. It was too much.

I have never used more than 16.

I have propensity for exaggeration also  ;)

[Mr modnaR]

perhaps a 'mod-matrix' style setup would work here, with 707 LEDs and a column of buttons down one side, and a row of buttons along the bottom or top. my 2p

[buxie]

well what i was going to do is intergrate them into the face of my organ. there is about the space of 300 buttons worth on the top and i can put about another 300 across the front  and about 200 down the sides.

[SLP]

Usually the sounds on a keyboard are splitted up in different sub-groups.

example:

my PSR-630 has got 692 sounds which are divided up in 32 sub-groups.

the biggest group contains about 20 sounds.

In my case 32+20 buttons would last. just use the 32 buttons to choose the sub group and the 20 buttons to choose the single sound.

leanin over to the keyboard and puttin in a 3 digit number that i have to memmorise cause the 4 banks arnt adequate enough.

but you want to memorize which button belongs to the sound you're looking for?

...good luck  ;)

matthias

[tel3]

That's $14.14, just waiting for you, if you can actually do it. I think you're either a) trawling or b) delusional...and if you really can do it, I think you might be autistic!

Dude, you don't need that many buttons. Save yourself some time and money and effort and rethink your project. Or just ignore me

Dude, That's kinda harsh!!!

-tel3

[buxie]

can some body tell me if this wud be compatible for the midi display screen, say i do go for 20 buttons with 40 different categories, when i push a category cud i get the screen to say for example organ sounds or piano sounds. then when i push a number button could i have it say "grand piano" or "drawbars" so i no what each button is with out having to writout them labels

Lcd screen --    http://www.rjselectronics.com/cms/html/modules.php?set_albumName=album14&id=Suntai_B8822993500&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

Technical information of LCD screen  -    http://www.rjselectronics.com/cms/html/downloadarea/LCD%20Modules/RJS%20SC-2004%2020x4%20Character%20Displays.pdf

[stryd_one]

Dude, That's kinda harsh!!!

I just wrote a big long reply and then realised I was repeating myself so I'm gonna just stick with my flow....

Yes it was harsh. And true.

I tried to be nice (scroll up) but some people don't respond to that sort of thing.

[midgetfidget]

Calling someone autistic is fucked though.

[MRE]

well what i was going to do is intergrate them into the face of my organ. there is about the space of 300 buttons worth on the top and i can put about another 300 across the front  and about 200 down the sides.

you cant be serious.

Honestly, have you measured a button? You need to account for the physical size of the button 'under the cover', the space needed for wiring (by the way you are attempting to solder wires to over 200 buttons? thats over 800 solder connections!!), you need space around the button for your fat finger, and last but certainly not least, you need structural integrity. If you riddle 200 holes into your case, that area will collapse under any sort of weight. Try pushing a button near the center of your matrix and the whole case dents in.

If you SERIOUSLY need this sort of thing, then consider a new controller and display. Perhaps A-Z, plus up and down arrow, and select. So.. say you press R and the display jumps the the R section and you could continue typing and the list narrows untill the exact sound you want is only a few charactor pushes.. or you could arrow up and down.. then hit select. So, something with TEXT visual selection.

not to be mean about it, but anything over 100 buttons is assinine. You should study up a bit on user interface design first.

[stryd_one]

Calling someone autistic is fucked though.

Don't misquote me. I never said that. Grrrr.

Edit #2: Removed my harshness cause I don't want to sully the forum with my filthy mouth

Lesson 1 - don't put words in stryd one's mouth, you won't like it when you put words in stryd one's mouth.

[Sinnsyk]

I think the TS just didn't understand that 300 buttons is waaaay too much. He should use another solution, like 32 + 20 buttons or whatsoever. Don't call him autistic  ;) he just didn't know it was that much work..

[Mr modnaR]

he was calling him autistic as a complement, he meant that to remember 707 patches in your head is pretty impressive.

[DavidBanner]

having watched this thread I have a small comment:

perhaps we could offer more help by suggesting that the planning and research are done to a level where one could understand the reason why that many buttons are a bad idea.

I for one often start projects with the idea that it must be the most complex thing in the world, once gaining understanding you realise that the best solution is often very simple and non complex to operate, but can atchieve all that a very complex solution would.

It's like this; there were a lot of physics ppl about b4 Einstien, but it took him to take something so complex and turn it into a simple (in relation) equation and theory.

[stryd_one]

Don't call him autistic  ;) he just didn't know it was that much work..

ARGH!  ::) OK let's just put a quote in here... I'm gonna snip out the irrelevant parts, but if you check the quoted post you'll see that it's retained it's meaning.

...707 sounds, if you can ... tell me what the sound is, it's harmonic content, timing, etc... from memory, on the fly, at random, in the middle of a performance....if you really can do it, I think you might be autistic! ;)

Now, you're right, he clearly just didn't know. That's what we're all trying to tell the guy. Nobody is bothered, we're all just trying to help a fellow DIY fanatic out. We all have our experiences and can surely lend great assitance to someone new to the project, we're all friendly dudes and we all want to help.

For example, QBAS suggested that the overall size of the device would be counterproductive. MRE pointed out such things as the physical size of the components. Me, my way of trying to help out, was to attempt to display the reason why 707 buttons is overkill (even if it could physically be done) - and that is to point out that the mental capacity required in order to memorise the sonic signature of 707 patches is beyond the capacity metered out to the average human being. Rather than be a grumpy bugger (I'm good at that) I thought I'd try and be silly and funny about it (see that winking smiley at the end of the line?). For those unaware, those suffering from Autism are often endowed with a fantastic memory, it really is quite amazing. I doubt that anyone with lesser skill could handle memorizing 707 FFT signatures. Obviously the humour is lost via text. But for goodness sake I never called anyone autistic. What bothers me about this is that it's being implied that I would say such a thing in the form of an insult. You all know me, I'm not backwards in coming forwards, I say exactly what I think and I never let anything slide.... But I've never done anything like disrespecting an innocent sufferer of an often difficult condition as a lame attempt to insult someone. To suggest such a thing is disrespectful to both the autistic and myself, and besides which is nonsensical as many an autistic person would be better equipped to comprehend this than any of us.

Now although I stand by the good natured intention of my comments I also realise that it is highly prone to misinterpretation. I don't want to offend anyone so if you'll allow me, I would like to offer a rephrased version:

That's $14.14, just waiting for you, if you can actually do it. I think you're either a) trawling or b) delusional...and if you really can do it, I think you might be in possession of extraordinarily rare and incredibly superior memory and recall capacity!

I still think the first one is funnier if you relax a bit. Seriously dudes, you've got the wrong guy and the wrong message. It was just a joke, if anything I was complimenting the autistic, not insulting the poster.

Now can we drop it and get back to helping a guy out (if he ever actually decides to listen to the chorus of voices of experience)??

[DavidBanner]

so stryd,

why did you call him autistic??

- just kidding  :P

[stryd_one]

LOL you got me too, just for a split second... I was like "NO! ARGHHH/...oh...... ahahahaha!!"  ;D