Re: MBSEQ V3 talk

[bosone]

i confirm is nearly what i was looking for!

i assigned the same channel to all the 16 "mixer events".

then the "CC1 setting" (from CC assignement) was set up with CC numbers from 0 to 15 and the "CC2" setting with CC from 16 to 31.

now the seq3 acts more of less as a midibox 16E controller!

the best addition, now, would be to use the 16 GP buttons to send midi events to remote control for example the solo/mute tracks of the sequence (sonar, cubase...)... to to this they should work as "toggle buttons" (as in the midibox16E)... and the led should lit or turned off following theyr status... maybe this behaviour sohuld be possible only when CC1/CC2 pages are selected...

[TK.]

I could add a very primitive support for using the 16 GP buttons as Note Triggers, only question: should they send different notes, or the same note over different channels?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[bosone]

I could add a very primitive support for using the 16 GP buttons as Note Triggers, only question: should they send different notes, or the same note over different channels?

wow! :-)

i feel that the toggle buttons should to transmit of the same channel, or maybe on the channel assigned by the mixer map, for maximum flexibility...

thanks!

[dcer10]

If the 16 buttons were to be used in the mixer mode I would prefer it to be flexible like the buttons on a Kenton Control freak where you can choose what is sent, if it is momentary, on/off toggle, and if a cc will be sent, or sysex or something else. Without a complex editor for this I guess its not possible. Im not sure that sending notes from the buttons is really going to suit everyone. Id prefer to still be able to access menu functions in the mixer mode unless what is sent by the buttons could be edited. But thats just my 2c worth :) Considering this is a sequencer which has a primary purpose of sending notes, and is meant to be hooked up to a keyboard which also sends notes, why would you want to use these buttons which are doing something perfectly useful to send notes too? I guess everyone uses things differently.

[TK.]

I will build in either a very primitive button sending routine with an exactly defined behaviour, and which will propably only be used by Matteo, or no button sending routine at all

So, here the question again: should they send different notes, or the same note over different channels?

If somebody searches for a flexible controller, have a look into the MIDIbox64E package, or MIDIbox LC V2 alpha (where you can turn your sequencer into a Logic Control ;-)) - I won't do all the effort again, just because somebody had a quick idea what could be missing in the sequencer firmware...

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[bosone]

well... maybe one can write some customization in the MIOS code, one it is setup, to send either controllers or note. for me, the best option is to have different notes on the same channels... but the point of dcer10 makes sense... and maybe even best would be to have toggle controller (0/127, press once=127, press twice=0) with different CC numbers on the same channels...

but i feel that once the routine has been implemented in MIOS one should be able to "easily" change the sent midi event from a controller, to a note or to change channel and event (note number, CC number...)

thanks anyway!

[TK.]

This is nothing which needs to be built into MIOS, instead everybody is free to add routines for a MIDI controller to the existing application hooks. But of course, there will always be memory limitations, and for MBSEQ you would have to decide, if you prefer more sequencer, or more MIDI controller features.

I think that even a simple button sending routine doesn't make much sense (all or nothing?), and wouldn't really be used. So I reject this feature request.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[dcer10]

I think that is a good decision TK, people can always build a MB64E to use for all these things, lets see the sequencer sequence as well as possible :)

[dcer10]

After using the seq quite a bit more I propose the following as handy features for consideration if other people would also use them and TK or others were willing to implement them...

The ability to solo each IIC output for multi port recording of midi events easily in an external sequencer

The ability to copy all parameters in a track when using the copy feature in the utility menu ie inc all menu item selections as well as notes and layers

A midi multi tap delay effect and maybe other midi FX as well as the current chords and progression type effects - id love to see the progression mode expanded somehow to allow for other uses where progression could also change after 1,2,4,8,16 bar cyles etc - maybe too complex??

Re introduction of the "Shift" feature (I remeber seeing that this was still possible but I cant recall where?? Especially as now F1 opens the utility menu)

A way to chain songs even if it is very simple (sorry had to ask 1 more time :) its important to me. )

A way to load up and dump a mixermap automatically when you load up a certain pattern (if this wouldnt disrupt anything else??).

Does anyone else think that any of this would be helpful for them too? Would these be technically possible?

All the best,

John

[stryd_one]

an external sequencer

:oSomebody ban this blasphemous traitor! ;D

Seriously though some good ideas :)

[dcer10]

Hehehe!!

Only as as a data recorder, nothing more, in fact its logic on an old 25mhz Apple 540c laptop with 12mb of ram, so its not really a sequencer :)

If the song chain function was implemented then maybe I wouldnt even need it.

All the best,

John

[stryd_one]

Nah you might as well keep it, cause song chains ain't gonna happen, and most importantly you need to run MIOS Studio somewhere ;)

[dcer10]

Unfortuantly the "latest" os for this machine is 7.5.3 which is a great os, but came well before java was invented.. No MIOS studio. In fact its only real use is to be able to record the notes coming from 1 IIC port at a time and play them back, but thats pretty important to me! I dont understand (but im sure theres a good reason for it) why song chaining cant be done, if a song can reference a new pattern as a part of it, cant the last change be to reference a new song instead? Like song mode on all TRx0x sequencers?? In any case, perhaps some of the other ideas might work out for people??

[TK.]

My comments this weekend

(I've already prepared an update of MBSEQ, e.g. the song menu page has been overworked, but its not complete yet)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[dcer10]

Looking forward to seeing what goodies you have for us TK :) THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TK.]

So, finally my answers (as I've a little bit more time to read them and to think about a solution)

The ability to solo each IIC output for multi port recording of midi events easily in an external sequencer

You can already do this by pressing and holding the MUTE button. Now you can select multiple tracks with the GP buttons. All selected tracks will be solo'ed when you activate the SOLO function.

The ability to copy all parameters in a track when using the copy feature in the utility menu ie inc all menu item selections as well as notes and layers

I will add a sequencer option for this alternative behaviour sooner or later (not guaranteed to be included into the v3.0, which I'm planning to release soon to get a free head for MBSID V2)

A midi multi tap delay effect and maybe other midi FX as well as the current chords and progression type effects - id love to see the progression mode expanded somehow to allow for other uses where progression could also change after 1,2,4,8,16 bar cyles etc - maybe too complex??

MIDI Fx: planned, but not for V3.0, as it will require a lot of programming effort. I'm not sure if I would use this by myself, because most of my synths are voice limited, so that I prefer audio Fx (therefore: low priority)

Changed progression: this is already possible by using the Loopback. You can control CC#41, CC#42, CC#43 (see mbseqv3_cc_implementation.txt) from another track. You can use a clock divider on this track to make changes each 16, 32, 64 steps or so....

I want to highlight, that there might be more possibilities available than anybody ever have thought of ;-)

Re introduction of the "Shift" feature (I remeber seeing that this was still possible but I cant recall where?? Especially as now F1 opens the utility menu)

It's called "Scrl" (for scroll), as the term "Shift" might be misleading.

A way to chain songs even if it is very simple (sorry had to ask 1 more time Smiley its important to me. )

it's finally available now, after I head to overwork most of the song handling in order to realize such special actions. Therefore it took a little bit longer (it wasn't so simple as expected)

A way to load up and dump a mixermap automatically when you load up a certain pattern (if this wouldnt disrupt anything else??).

Mixer maps can now be dumped within Songs (or Phrases) as well

A direct link to patterns is not possible for conceptional reasons (as the content of mixer maps is not directly related to the content of patterns)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[dcer10]

First things first, WOOOHOO!! Thanks TK! Especially for the improvements to the song mode. I havent been able to try it yet, but I will as soon as I can.

The ability to solo each IIC output for multi port recording of midi events easily in an external sequencer

You can already do this by pressing and holding the MUTE button. Now you can select multiple tracks with the GP buttons. All selected tracks will be solo'ed when you activate the SOLO function.

I know you can do it that way, but I need to then go look up the IIC used in the menu of each track, make note of them all then go mute each one. What I was hoping for was to be able to solo everything from IIC1 (for example) from a menu, for midi recording in a multiport situation as it would be much easier and quicker that way.

The ability to copy all parameters in a track when using the copy feature in the utility menu ie inc all menu item selections as well as notes and layers

I will add a sequencer option for this alternative behaviour sooner or later (not guaranteed to be included into the v3.0, which I'm planning to release soon to get a free head for MBSID V2

Awesome, this will make 1:1 copies of each track ie all settings copied??

MIDI Fx: planned, but not for V3.0, as it will require a lot of programming effort. I'm not sure if I would use this by myself, because most of my synths are voice limited, so that I prefer audio Fx (therefore: low priority)

Personally im the opposite, Ive got a lot of  synths and not much in the way of audio FX. Id be REALLY keen to see as much in the way of midiFX as possible built into this beast! Is anyone else interested in this?? Im currently trying to build the MBHP Midi Delay just to add some, but im sure that this and much more could be a part of the  sequencer???

Changed progression: this is already possible by using the Loopback. You can control CC#41, CC#42, CC#43 (see mbseqv3_cc_implementation.txt) from another track. You can use a clock divider on this track to make changes each 16, 32, 64 steps or so....

I want to highlight, that there might be more possibilities available than anybody ever have thought of ;-

I see where you are coming from, personally I have never used the loopback channels, never thought I had the need... You hit the nail on the head with what I wanted from the progression mode (except I thought changing keys over time would also be cool). Is there a way to make a menu to make the usage more straight forward? I will try to use the loopback channel to see what results I can get. Since there is no manual yet, could you explain what can be recorded into the loopback channel? Is it just the cc's? Whats the deal with the NRPN stuff there in the cc implementation? Do you need to do something special to use it?

Re introduction of the "Shift" feature (I remeber seeing that this was still possible but I cant recall where?? Especially as now F1 opens the utility menu)

It's called "Scrl" (for scroll), as the term "Shift" might be misleading.

The feature I liked was the one where you could "turn" the whole pattern left or right in real time, is it still in there somewhere?

Also, I recall a long time ago saying I would like note cc cc (fixed vel) as a track event assignment, and you saidit was there, but I looked again and didnt see it, what number is it? Sorry, am I blind?

A way to chain songs even if it is very simple (sorry had to ask 1 more time Smiley its important to me. )

it's finally available now, after I head to overwork most of the song handling in order to realize such special actions. Therefore it took a little bit longer (it wasn't so simple as expected)

Ill say it again, WOOHOOWWW!!! I cant wait to try it!! Sounds like phrase mode is going to be very cool live... Ive got a gig coming up soon which I really needed something like this for, so thanks!!!!!!!!!!

A way to load up and dump a mixermap automatically when you load up a certain pattern (if this wouldnt disrupt anything else??).

Mixer maps can now be dumped within Songs (or Phrases) as well

A direct link to patterns is not possible for conceptional reasons (as the content of mixer maps is not directly related to the content of patterns)

I havent been able to try yet so perhaps it will be obvious but does this mean that song 1 references patterns 1-4 which when pattern 1 plays it will dump the mixermap associated with it in the song, then when you get to pattern 2 a new mixer map will be dumped (so volumes, program changes, initial cc's etc can be dumped during playback different for each pattern or song??)

Wow, I cant wait to get in front of my sequencer!!!!! Thanks so much TK!!!!!!!!!

John

[stryd_one]

Thanks TK that new build is off the hook!

[TK.]

I know you can do it that way, but I need to then go look up the IIC used in the menu of each track, make note of them all then go mute each one. What I was hoping for was to be able to solo everything from IIC1 (for example) from a menu, for midi recording in a multiport situation as it would be much easier and quicker that way.

Ok, I see. It could also be useful for myself when I temporary want to disable the loopback in order to control the arpeggiator/transposer directly from a keyboard.

Therefore it's implemented now in the new build #69 (F1->PMte)

Im currently trying to build the MBHP Midi Delay just to add some, but im sure that this and much more could be a part of the  sequencer???

There isn't enough RAM for an effect like the Magic MIDI Delay, and also the complexity of the sequencer engine would kill me - I've already difficulities to add new features w/o looking deeply into the code I programmed months ago... therefore I don't think, that I will add much more complex features, only simple features, into V3

Since there is no manual yet, could you explain what can be recorded into the loopback channel? Is it just the cc's? Whats the deal with the NRPN stuff there in the cc implementation? Do you need to do something special to use it?

You can send Notes or CCs.

Notes will be forwarded to the transposer and arpeggiator, this allows you to realize quite impressing tunes with a small number of patterns (or just with a single pattern set)

CC's will be forwarded to the track NRPNs, the Loopback channel correlates to the track number.

There is nothing more to say about this, the usage is straightforward.

The feature I liked was the one where you could "turn" the whole pattern left or right in real time, is it still in there somewhere?

it's the scroll function, it shifts all selected tracks left or right from the step at which you are turning the GP encoder

Also, I recall a long time ago saying I would like note cc cc (fixed vel) as a track event assignment, and you saidit was there, but I looked again and didnt see it, what number is it? Sorry, am I blind?

seems that I forgot this combination.

From my oppinion it would fit best at the position which is currently used for Note/CC/Len - does anybody use this one? If not, I will replace it

havent been able to try yet so perhaps it will be obvious but does this mean that song 1 references patterns 1-4 which when pattern 1 plays it will dump the mixermap associated with it in the song, then when you get to pattern 2 a new mixer map will be dumped (so volumes, program changes, initial cc's etc can be dumped during playback different for each pattern or song??)

A mixer map just allocates a song position, you can dump one or more mixer maps whenever you want, it's part of the sequence.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[dcer10]

Still havent been able to use the new build!! Cant wait!!

From my oppinion it would fit best at the position which is currently used for Note/CC/Len - does anybody use this one? If not, I will replace it

Im sorry to say, I use that one as well :)

Any room for a new one? Obviously the drum mode and chords modes couldnt go...

[TK.]

Up to 16 different modes can be realized, problem is only the order of listed modes in the menu.

1) I could either add it behind Note/CC/Len, but this would make existing patches incompatible if they are using modes behind this new one. People could complain about this

2) Or I could add it to the end of the list, but in this case some other people could complain about the strange order of event modes.

So, what would you prefer?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[dcer10]

Personally Id prefer it to be squeezed in after Note/CC/Len, but only as I don't care if I loose my patches (if its done soon as I have a live show booked v soon with it :) after that I will care if my patches wont work again) but if other people wouldn't like it there then I could deal with it at the end of the list, but it seems more logical to have it after Note/CC/Len. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Tonight I get to try out the update for the first time!! Woohoo!!

[TK.]

Re-ordering the Event modes wouldn't directly mean, that the old patches are not working anymore. You only have to increase the mode number in the event menu and store the patch again.

I think I will go this way - better to earn complaints now than frequently in the next years. ;-)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Rio]

Hi Tk,

during i'm testing, it seems i found one bug:

In record mode, if i send a C-6 Midinote, it will only register that for a minimal time.

I don't know, if thats really a bug... (i only notice that on C-6)

Best regards, Rio.

[stryd_one]

You sure it's not the controller sending a note off message too soon?