Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Put Waveblaster daughter board (Yamaha DB50XG) in a box?


  • Please log in to reply
123 replies to this topic

#21 cheater

cheater

    MIDIbox Addict

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 216 posts

Posted 16 March 2007 - 13:50

From the first of my links. Don't tell me I did all that searching for you and you didn't read it? :P


o no!  ;D

#22 SeverityOne

SeverityOne

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • LocationMalta

Posted 16 March 2007 - 23:40

Looking at the schematic of the core module, the MO pin of J11 is physically connected to the output at J12. So sending different signals to those two ports is not going to happen. Obviously, I could connect the MI pin to the MIDI in of the DB50XG, but then I wouldn't be able to send messages from knob movements and button presses to it.

So, back to the drawing board.

- Peter

#23 stryd_one

stryd_one

    MIDIbox Guru

  • Frequent Writer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,850 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, Victoria, Australia

Posted 17 March 2007 - 00:59

Do you want a second instance, which is at TTL level, of the Core DIN MIDI out

OR

Do you want a second midi interface which is separate from the main out, but TTL only?

OR

Something else?


#24 el-bee

el-bee

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 52 posts
  • LocationHelsinki

Posted 19 March 2007 - 13:23

Elektor Magazine had an article about converting DB50XG to a standard midi sound module in issue 7-8 / 1997.. Their add-on board added PSU, output amplifier and midi connectors to card. I know I have this magazine somewhere, but no idea where exactly :/.. I guess you could also buy a pdf version from their website.

Makes me wonder where the hell did I stash that DB50XG card I had, it would make a nice Midibox project.. ;)

#25 SeverityOne

SeverityOne

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • LocationMalta

Posted 19 March 2007 - 15:43

Whilst going through the documentation, it became clear to me that there's just one MIDI path throughout a core module. So yes, I'd need a separate MIDI Out (and In, for those Waveblaster boards that support it).

My plan is to design a PCB with more or less the components of the MIDI I2C module, minus the opto-coupler, plus the components needed for the PCB that el-bee mentioned, again minus the opto-coupler.

The problem I have at the moment, though, is that I can't for the life of me figure out how to add a shape to a schematic design with Eagle Light. But give me time. :)

Another idea that came to me is an adapter for Yamaha PLG boards... but let's start with this one first.

I'll have a look at that Elektor magazine.

Thanks again everyone,

- Peter

#26 mjproc

mjproc

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 53 posts

Posted 22 March 2007 - 07:52

I think the hardware bit of this may be the easiest part.... how do you plan the software?  Do you plan to customize mios to utilize the extended modes of the card ? 

When I used the xg as standalone module, I was not very happy with the "normal" sounds from the card.  I was quite impressed when I heard a well programmed xg midi song,,, I think it can be hard to do that in mios.....

Back then I also used Sw1000Xg with plg100vh add on.  Would be kewl to use the plg cards as standalone..... not sure if someone has done that yet..

#27 stryd_one

stryd_one

    MIDIbox Guru

  • Frequent Writer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,850 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, Victoria, Australia

Posted 22 March 2007 - 08:17

Whilst going through the documentation, it became clear to me that there's just one MIDI path throughout a core module.


That's correct.


#28 el-bee

el-bee

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 52 posts
  • LocationHelsinki

Posted 22 March 2007 - 13:18

Dug up my copy of the Elektor magazine, made a quick pdf scan and uploaded it to my diy-folder..  Get it here http://kewlers.scene...-standalone.pdf. Will remove the file after a few days so anyone who wants this, better be quick ;)

#29 SeverityOne

SeverityOne

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • LocationMalta

Posted 24 March 2007 - 16:38

Dug up my copy of the Elektor magazine, made a quick pdf scan and uploaded it to my diy-folder..  Get it here http://kewlers.scene...-standalone.pdf. Will remove the file after a few days so anyone who wants this, better be quick ;)

I did! Thanks!

...a day after I paid €1,30 for the same article downloaded from the Elektor site. :) Then again, it's in Dutch, which happens to be one of my two native languages. (Something that my wife says can't happen, having two native languages.)

But since the article was originally written in English, it's good to have the original next to it.

Thanks again,

- Peter

#30 SeverityOne

SeverityOne

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • LocationMalta

Posted 24 March 2007 - 16:44

I think the hardware bit of this may be the easiest part.... how do you plan the software?  Do you plan to customize mios to utilize the extended modes of the card ?

Something like that. I'd have to look into MIOS and the MIDIbox 64 first, of course. But since these days my programming limits itself to distributed interactive web sites in Java, getting my hands dirty on some plain old C could be fun. Assembly, the last bit I did was a super-optimised loop of 68000 code to calculate a Mandelbrot set on an Amiga, so I might not be ready for that just yet.

- Peter

#31 TheAncientOne

TheAncientOne

    MIDIbox Guru

  • Programmer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 701 posts
  • LocationUK, Near Manchester

Posted 24 March 2007 - 19:21

Assembly, the last bit I did was a super-optimised loop of 68000 code to calculate a Mandelbrot set on an Amiga, so I might not be ready for that just yet.


If you did that and are still relatively sane, I think PIC is not going to be a problem.

Mike (still having flashbacks about a FORTH system for 68000, though the treatment is helping).



#32 SeverityOne

SeverityOne

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • LocationMalta

Posted 25 March 2007 - 13:40

OK... as a architect/designer, the first thing you do is create a functional overview of the desired end result:

Posted Image

This doesn't actually add anything, but since I had so much fun using JFDraw (a freeware Java-based vector drawing programme), I included it here. Although I may have gone a bit overboard with the XG logo. :)

The MIDI out from the Waveblaster connector won't do anything in the case of the DB50XG, but the WaveBlaster standard supports it, and it won't cost anything significant in extra components.

Next up is a drawing of what MIDIbox modules would be used.

- Peter

#33 maniac

maniac

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 58 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 27 March 2007 - 10:35

As I remember db50xg in QS300 mode has bank of 8 or 16 slots for user patches. Midi out might be usfull for storing patches in sequencer or in midibox memory.


#34 TheAncientOne

TheAncientOne

    MIDIbox Guru

  • Programmer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 701 posts
  • LocationUK, Near Manchester

Posted 27 March 2007 - 16:36

As I remember db50xg in QS300 mode has bank of 8 or 16 slots for user patches. Midi out might be usfull for storing patches in sequencer or in midibox memory.


Unless the Yanaha is non standard, the normal waveblaster connector does not provide MIDI out: AFAIK, waveblaster cards are MIDI-in only.

You can give it orders, but it doesn't report back, (rather like a few component suppliers).


[tt]  1 Digital Ground              2 NC
  3 Digital Ground              4 MIDI IN
  5 Digital Ground              6 +5V
  7 Digital Ground              8 NC
  9 Digital Ground            10 +5V
11 Digital Ground            12 NC
13 NC                            14 +5V
15 Analog Ground            16 NC
17 Analog Ground            18 +12V
19 Analog Ground            20 Right Audio Out
21 Analog Ground            22 -12V
23 Analog Ground            24 Left Audio Out
25 Analog Ground            26 Reset (logic low) 

[/tt]

Pinout courtesy of www.epanorama.net Modified to show analog and digital grounds.

Hope this help. Your MIDIbox of course cab have MIDI out, but it will have to keep track of the state of the daughterboard.

For my money, initially, I'd just do a host adapter and get on with experimenting. Bit of veroboard and a kength of ribbon with an IDC. Use a seperate backplate, because not all daughter boards, (there are others - I've just bought an 'Adwave32' off ebay for £5),l share the same mounting hole arrangments and socket location as the Yamaha. Keep it loose and you've no problem. A rave fanatic friend tell me categorically that Creatives own original waveblaster board for the AWE32 etc is only any good as a beermat


OK now for another, totally opposite idea.

How many AWE32's etc can you fit in a PC?

How about using an old PC using a basic OS/driver to run say 4 AWE32/64's as voices? MIDI in, and perhaps a MIOS based control surface. Something using a low power CPU, then it wouldn't need fancy fan cooling, run with minimal IO and graphics card for setting up. The AWE64 Golds is/was quite reasonable. I use one in my MP3 machine, because it has proper phono sockets. Given the (free) price of old PC's, I wonder if this is worth trying as a recycle? I've got two AWE32's sitting here, that I can't bear the thought of stripping for chips, (I mean, paid £120 for one way back when - I don't think I had a night out for 2 months to  afford it!).

Is this a thought? Even as a sample player it might be worth a try. I do like the thought of 'old PC as appliance' - like my smoothwall, another excellent community project. http://www.smoothwall.org/

Mike


PS I nearly posted this link from a friend instead of epanorama - (I may have invented the Freudian paste) - I guess it's worth passing on:

<Scottish Voice> Captain you're 40,000 light years off topic, I tell ye we've not got the crystals to get back to MIDIbox central. . .



#35 mjproc

mjproc

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 53 posts

Posted 27 March 2007 - 18:52

I'm trying to create a standalone system myselves...

I've created a new tread:
http://www.midibox.o...g62699#msg62699

don't want to hijack this thread ;-)

#36 maniac

maniac

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 58 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 27 March 2007 - 22:44


Unless the Yanaha is non standard, the normal waveblaster connector does not provide MIDI out: AFAIK, waveblaster cards are MIDI-in only.


There is a midi out signal on PIN 8. http://www.mupro.de/...age=/wblast.htm
Probably used also by Roland or Korg waveblaster cards ?

#37 SeverityOne

SeverityOne

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • LocationMalta

Posted 27 March 2007 - 23:28

Indeed, that was the idea. For the DB50XG it'll be useless, because it doesn't have a MIDI out, but since that pin on the I2C chip would remain unused anyway, there's no harm in connecting it. Unless it would lead to unwanted behaviour and 'ghost' signals being received, but one would expect Creative to have thought of that. And otherwise, you can always disregard the stream altogether.

For the next two weeks I'll be abroad and likely not be working on this...

- Peter

#38 TheAncientOne

TheAncientOne

    MIDIbox Guru

  • Programmer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 701 posts
  • LocationUK, Near Manchester

Posted 28 March 2007 - 14:30



Unless the Yanaha is non standard, the normal waveblaster connector does not provide MIDI out: AFAIK, waveblaster cards are MIDI-in only.


There is a midi out signal on PIN 8. http://www.mupro.de/...age=/wblast.htm
Probably used also by Roland or Korg waveblaster cards ?


Thanks for that Maniac! All other external box designs I've seen have pin 8 listed as 'NC'. I've got an Adwave32 on the way as a tryout, and will see what that has, which may be useful in finding what is on the Adwave card. I'll report back as soon as I can get to try it out.

Mike

#39 stryd_one

stryd_one

    MIDIbox Guru

  • Frequent Writer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,850 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, Victoria, Australia

Posted 28 March 2007 - 15:58

Be careful guys. There is a page around, which includes a number of incorrect pinouts, and I'm pretty sure that one is in it... I remember the separate grounds...

Yeh, my first link. this one mentions this pinouts history as one that was circulating usenet. I quote:

This waveblaster connector pinout has been posted to usenet news many times. According the comments I have received this pinout is not correct one. So this is not the correct pinout and do not use this wrong one:

Pin Definition          Pin Definition

1  Digital GND        14  Digital VCC
2  Not Used            15  Chassis GND
3  Digital GND        16  Not Used
4  MIDI Output (TTL)  17  Mixer Out Left
5  Digital GND        18  +12 V Analog
6  Digital VCC        19  Chassis GND
7  Digital GND        20  Left Audio Out
8  MIDI Input  (TTL)  21  Mixer Out Right
9  Digital GND        22  -12 V Analog
10  Digital VCC        23  Chassis GND
11  Digital GND        24  Audio Out Right
12  Not Used            25  Analog GND
13  Not Used            26  Reset


The bold text is theirs not mine. Your call :)


#40 SeverityOne

SeverityOne

    MIDIbox Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • LocationMalta

Posted 28 March 2007 - 17:47

Hmmm, let's see how easy it is to follow the leads on the SoundBlaster card. :)

- Peter