Second DIN not functional

[Laslo]

Hi guys.

Been wrestling with a problem for quite some time now, my first DIN is working perfectly, all 32 buttons, the problem lies in the second DIN connected @ J2.

The problem being that its not sending any signals whatsoever, I'm fairly sure the IC's are fine as i've tried each of them in the first DIN with success. The voltages on J2 of the first DIN are the same as that on J1 of the second DIN and I have been over it quite a few times looking for bad solder joints.

Wondering if anyone could shed some light on this problem? I'm so close to finishing it!

Thanks very much guys.

[stryd_one]

OK it's like this now:

Core - DIN#1 - DIN#2

If you do it like this: (Change the cables over as well as the PCBs)

Core - DIN#2 - DIN#1

Which one works?

[Laslo]

Thanks for the reply stryd,

I gave that a shot, but then they both wouldn't work.

One thing i've noticed but didn't think would have an impact on anything is that on the first DIN, i've soldered the resistors all facing the same direction, however on the second DIN, theres a few odd ones out that face in the opposite direction, opposite according to their stripes that is.

[stryd_one]

Thanks for testing that mate, that makes it clearer...

The resistors are fine  :)

It seems that the data lines from DIN#2 are not connecting properly. First off, try it with the cables swapped over. If that is no good,do you have a multimeter?

If so, test for a connection between the same pins on either end (J1 and J2) of the DIN #2.

SI is the only one that should be open (no flow of electricity).

If that is the case, check the circuit between QH and SER pins on the IC's.

Good luck!

[Laslo]

Thanks Stryd,

I'm about to go to bed, i've got an early uni start tomorrow, but I will give it a shot and report back tomorrow evening!

[Laslo]

Sorry i didnt reply last night stryd, hectic amount of work.

I wasn't sure exactly what you meant, so i tested the voltage on the second DIN with my multimeter from VS on J1 to VS on J2, SI on J1 to SI on J2 etc etc. I didn't get a reading on any of them, same with the first DIN though.

I may just take it apart and check the wire connections underneath the IC sockets, one of them may've come loose but i don't know how.

I'll report back!

[stryd_one]

Sorry mate, what I meant was to test that there is no break in the circuit. It doesn't need to be connected at all, just set your multimeter to the one that beeps when there is a circuit made between the probes.

Somewhere between the core and J2  on DIN#2 is a break or bad solder joint there I think...

[Laslo]

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply, been pretty hectic these past few days.

I had a feeling that the isolated bridges underneath the IC's may've come loose, so I completely took the board apart (aside from the resistors and pin headers), replaced the cables and the IC sockets and tried again.

This time I occasionally get some buttons working then they jitter. On the first button of the first bundle I get jitter on notes C4 and C5 on channels 1-16.

I don't think my multimeter has a beeper setting but it may have some setting that will assist me.

I'll keep investigating.

Thanks!

EDIT: I was re-reading the DIN page and noticed on the description for the J2 port, it read

Interface to another DINX4 module. DINX4:J2 provides nearly the same pins like J1, just only the serial output of the first IC is replaced by the serial input of the last IC.

Right now I have the buttons connected in the same fashion on both DINs with a 1:1 connection from DIN no.1 J2 to DIN no.2 J1.

Is this all how its meant to be?

Thanks again.

[TK.]

Yes, thats the way how the modules should be "daisychained".

See also http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_cs/mbsid_din_default.pdf as an example

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[DavidBanner]

I'm pretty sure you know this, but I was linking 2 DINs yesterday and noticed -

if you are using Smash's boards the J2-J1 link is not 1 to 1 if you are using a DIL plug.

[TheAncientOne]

I'm pretty sure you know this, but I was linking 2 DINs yesterday and noticed -

if you are using Smash's boards the J2-J1 link is not 1 to 1 if you are using a DIL plug.

According to Smash's site, the currrent DIN's are designed to "daisy chain", using a single ribbon connector:

See http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/mbhp_dinR5.html

IMHO the pins on the headers are designed to go Out --> In if you use the right connectors.

Example: Cure --> J1 on First DIN  J2 on First DIN --> J1 on Second DIN  J2 on Second DIN --> J1 on 3rd DIN etc

Mike

[smashtv]

if you are using Smash's boards the J2-J1 link is not 1 to 1 if you are using a DIL plug.

Are you sure about this?  1:1 was my intent.

Considering my elevator rarely makes it to the top floor, could you show me the error?

Since some cheeky kid pushed all the buttons then got off at the first floor, I could use some help... ;)

Best Regards

Smash

[DavidBanner]

Hey Tim,

as the coffee kicked in while in my car I knew I'd should have put a revision number on there and it would come back to bite me in the ass...

I was refering to the DIN R3 boards, just checked the liked and the pins have changed on R5...

ignore me, I'll slink back into my cave like studio and continue on with the soldering and headscratching...

[TheAncientOne]

I'll slink back into my cave like studio and continue on with the soldering and headscratching...

You've got a cave like studio?? Cool! Does everything have big black and white labels, like on the Old Batman TV series?

There was a bit of a fun 'Gotcha' here - I've just been using a home made manual tester on my DIN's and I went and double checked before trying two together.

I've never seen anything other than R5, so now I know what to watch out for.

Thanks

Mike

[smashtv]

Are you absolutely positive about this error?  I promise I'm not trying to go all Iranian boat captain or anything....But there are a -lot- of R3s out there and I want to be sure the errata is complete.

You've got a cave like studio?? Cool! Does everything have big black and white labels, like on the Old Batman TV series?

In my caveoffice they are -very- big for reading in low light.  Gotta keep it dark in the office or me eyeballs will revolt.  Fun thing is the rack of bins that only has barcodes....perfect for messing with visitors.  ;)

Best

Smash

[DavidBanner]

You've got a cave like studio?? Cool! Does everything have big black and white labels, like on the Old Batman TV series?

no, not yet anyway.... But it does have a few weird signs (including one about Japanese Knotweed), 4 clubs next door to it - which means Thurs - Sat I have a line of pretty girls out the front and an espresso machine.

Which means I pretty much never see my house except on the rare occasion I get some sleep...

I need to grow a long weird beard, get a big stick and complete the lifestyle I think....

[DavidBanner]

Are you absolutely positive about this error?  I promise I'm not trying to go all Iranian boat captain or anything....But there are a -lot- of R3s out there and I want to be sure the errata is complete.

Smash

I'll check the boards once I'm back in the Cave again tommorrow and give you a full report...

Btw: defo not an "error" - it's marked on the screen on the boards correctly..

[DavidBanner]

Tim,

On my R3 DOUTs

J1:

    OO Vs

    OO Vd

SI OO

    OO SC

    OO RC

J2:

Vs OO

Vd OO

SI OO

SC OO

RC OO

hope this helps

[smashtv]

Tim,

On my R3 DOUTs

J1:

    OO Vs

    OO Vd

SI OO

    OO SC

    OO RC

J2:

Vs OO

Vd OO

SI OO

SC OO

RC OO

hope this helps

Ahh!  I get it now.  :)

There was not room between J1/J2 and the edge(s) they are close too for proper legends:

[table][tr][td][/td][td]

DIN R3:J1

[/td][td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td]  looks like:

[tt]    OO-Vs

    OO-Vd

  SI-OO

    OO-SC

    OO-RC[/tt][/td]

[td]  but is wired:

[tt]  Vs-OO-Vs

  Vd-OO-Vd

  SI-OO-No connection

  SC-OO-SC

  RC-OO-RC[tt][/td]

[/tr][/table]

[table][tr][td][/td][td]

DIN R3:J2

[/td][td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td]  looks like:

[tt]  Vs-OO

  Vd-OO

  SI-OO

  SC-OO

  RC-OO[/tt][/td]

[td]  but is wired:

[tt]  Vs-OO-Vs

  Vd-OO-Vd

  SI-OO-No connection

  SC-OO-SC

  RC-OO-RC[tt][/td][/tr][/table]

DIN R5 (the current rev) has the same lacking legend, but it is just a bit different in that it carries the SO line from J1 to J2.  This allows for a 1:1 Core:DIN:DOUT chain. 

The next rev of the DOUT will carry SI from DOUT J1 to J2, allowing for a 1:1 Core:DIN:DOUT:DIN chain....or Core:DOUT:DIN:DOUT, etc.

I'll work on making this more clear on future revs...

Best Regards

Smash

[DavidBanner]

:o - slaps forehead! DOH!

Still, it's gonna make wiring easier in future....

Thanks for the info...