somebody interested in x0xb0x PCB`s (BATCH CLOSED)

[Kartoshka]

me was reading nearly every new post

me was is reading nearly every new post  ;D

[Sasha]

i still dont quite know what this thread is all about; as iv'e been far too lazy to bother finding out in detail

This thread started as an offer for x0xb0x PCBs. I never changed the Thread name after it status changed, so it might be confusing for the people not involved in it from beginning. People who are in should check the new posts to be up to date. I`ll update first page, and change the thread name so it should be more clear to the people not in it from beginning.

First page updated.

[ganchan]

I really need to have all the panel related parts to continue with it. It is on hold for now. First x0x I`m building without much customisation. After I get it working I will continue with custom parts.

since i think that grayhill will 'never' become available :P, we have time to wait.

[Sasha]

since i think that grayhill will 'never' become available Tongue, we have time to wait.

I`ve sent an email to Grayhill asking about those encoders. Hope wan`t hear that.

[TheAncientOne]

I've just been doing the same.

We can take either 25LB22-H or 25LR22-H (the only difference is black or red body colour). And NO I'm not doing a colour option on the order.

When I checked for another distributor I found one. Abacus in the UK. They have an office in Bolton where I live! They are checking with Grayhill now.

Grayhill themselves are quoting 50 days lead time.

I tried to get some from Digikey when they had apparently got 30 in stock - I think Limor beat me to the punch because I got an 'out of stock' notification. Grayhill's own search option says 'non anywhere'.

There may be other options. Lorlin do one, but it won't fit the board. The mechanism of the Grayhill is very very similar to the design of the Bourns ECW series encoders, but they don't seem to do a switch model. Pity Limor didn't use a MIL spec part - there has to be a second source for a part to make the list in most cases.

If anyone needs to get going fast, then a cheap test option might be a couple of those Hex PCB switches used for address setting. You'd wear them out, but they could be adapted, then replaced once the Grayhills arrive. If a lot of people wanted to do that, a small adapter PCB could be made.

More soon.....

[TheAncientOne]

Other parts

I notice that some other parts may be harder to get than I thought for people 'buying local', or minimum order quantities might be too expensive.

I can pad out the Mouser order, because the carriage is a flat rate.

Xicor capacitors (green 'mylar' ones). values like 18nF are not stocked by everyone. I can second source Panasonic caps from Farnell, (all bar 220nF).

NKK toggle switch

1% resistors - I have most of these in stock, up to about 20 kits worth, and don't mind bagging them up - it would be cheaper than Maplin, anyway.

10u Caps I got lucky recently and got 1000 Elna 10uF 50V caps for about 2.5p each. I can do some bags of these (they are good for other MIDIbox bits too).

[ganchan]

There may be other options. Lorlin do one, but it won't fit the board. The mechanism of the Grayhill is very very similar to the design of the Bourns ECW series encoders, but they don't seem to do a switch model. Pity Limor didn't use a MIL spec part - there has to be a second source for a part to make the list in most cases.

what about this ones?

http://www.electro-nc.com/oak/p0710.pdf

about panasonic EVU as i had say in the other thread, i will try to remove the detent on the other model or cut the metal bush.

[Goblinz]

Has anybody tried asking about the roatry switch on the x0x forum. I'm guessing that they wouldn't have chosen a very hard to get part for the switch????

    G

[Sasha]

Has anybody tried asking about the roatry switch on the x0x forum

Ask what? There is not much DIY part hunters there. 25LB22-H is not rare part!

I'm guessing that they wouldn't have chosen a very hard to get part for the switch

I believe Limor, as living in US was searching the Mouser and Digikey for right part she think would suits the design. 25LB22-H seamed suitable, it wasn`t rare part, it is produced in US, not very expensive, so at time it was right choice.

[Sasha]

I found this as a part of "switch.h" But, I don`t quite get it.  :-[

#define TEMPO_PIN PINA
   34 #define TEMPO_A 1
   35 #define TEMPO_B 0
   36 //#define TEMPO_SW 0
   37 #define SWITCH_LATCH_PORT PORTB
   38 #define SWITCH_LATCH_PIN 0
   39 
   40 #define BANK_PIN PINA
   41 #define FUNC_PIN PINA
   42 #define BANK_COMMON_PORT PORTA
   43 #define FUNC_COMMON_PORT PORTA
   44 #define BANK_COMMON_PIN 6
   45 #define FUNC_COMMON_PIN 6
   46 #define BANK_PIN1 5
   47 #define BANK_PIN2 4
   48 #define BANK_PIN4 3
   49 #define BANK_PIN8 2
   50 
   51 uint8_t read_tempo(void);
   52 void read_switches(void);
   53 void select_bank_read(void);
   54 uint8_t read_bank(void);
   55 uint8_t has_bank_knob_changed(void);
   56 void read_keypad(uint8_t *switchinput);
   57 void select_func_read(void);
   58 uint8_t read_function(void);
   59 void read_switch_press(void);
   60 uint8_t is_pressed(uint8_t key);
   61 uint8_t just_pressed(uint8_t key);
   62 uint8_t just_released(uint8_t key);
   63 uint8_t get_lowest_numkey_pressed(void);
   64 int8_t get_lowest_notekey_pressed(void);
   65 uint8_t get_lowest_numkey_just_pressed(void);
   66 uint8_t no_keys_pressed(void);
   67 
   68 #define KEY_TEMPO 2
   69 
   70 #define KEY_NEXT 8
   71 #define KEY_RS 1
   72 #define KEY_CHAIN 0
   73 #define KEY_PREV 3
   74 #define KEY_C 4
   75 #define KEY_CS 9
   76 #define KEY_D 5
   77 #define KEY_DS 10
   78 #define KEY_E 6
   79 #define KEY_F 7
   80 #define KEY_FS 11
   81 #define KEY_G 17
   82 #define KEY_GS 12
   83 #define KEY_A 18
   84 #define KEY_AS 13
   85 #define KEY_B 16
   86 #define KEY_C2 19
   87 #define KEY_UP 15
   88 #define KEY_DOWN 14
   89 #define KEY_REST 20
   90 #define KEY_ACCENT 21
   91 #define KEY_SLIDE 22
   92 #define KEY_DONE 23
   93 
   94 #define KEY_1 KEY_C
   95 #define KEY_2 KEY_D
   96 #define KEY_3 KEY_E
   97 #define KEY_4 KEY_F
   98 #define KEY_5 KEY_G
   99 #define KEY_6 KEY_A
  100 #define KEY_7 KEY_B
  101 #define KEY_8 KEY_C2
  102 
  103 #define PLAY_PATTERN_FUNC 15
  104 #define PLAY_PATTERN_MIDISYNC_FUNC 11
  105 #define PLAY_PATTERN_DINSYNC_FUNC 7
  106 #define EDIT_PATTERN_FUNC 3
  107 
  108 #define PLAY_TRACK_FUNC 13
  109 #define PLAY_TRACK_DINSYNC_FUNC 5
  110 #define PLAY_TRACK_MIDISYNC_FUNC 9
  111 #define EDIT_TRACK_FUNC 1
  112 
  113 #define COMPUTER_CONTROL_FUNC 14
  114 
  115 #define MIDI_CONTROL_FUNC 0
  116 
  117 #define RANDOM_MODE_FUNC 8
  118 
  119 #define KEYBOARD_MODE_FUNC 4
  120 
  121 #define A_FUNC 12
  122 #define B_FUNC 2
  123 #define C_FUNC 10
  124 
  125 #define BOOTLOAD_FUNC 6

[Sasha]

I`m getting lost between this and other xoxbox parts thread. I already said on other thread the Grayhill answered me 25LB22-H will be awailabe in 4-5 weeks so no probably no need for alternatives.

[stryd_one]

I`m getting lost between this and other xoxbox parts thread.

I can help you do a nice clean merge if you want bud, just say the word.

[Sasha]

I can help you do a nice clean merge if you want bud, just say the word.

You think I know how? :) Feel free to give some suggestion for organization.

[ganchan]

i've received an offer from the italian distribuitor of grayhill,

100pz at €2.3 quite like digikey, but shipping will be in 10 week.

hope digikey and newmark will have in large stocks!

[stryd_one]

You think I know how? :) Feel free to give some suggestion for organization.

Man, I have no idea... IMO it's probably too complex, but I thought I should offer :)

[Sasha]

it's probably too complex

It is, otherwise I would already ask you to split or move some portions. Thanks anyway.

[Kartoshka]

well this means new topic should be started soon, probably with *building* word in title.  ::)

[Sasha]

I hope so. I will make new thread for discussion about x0x panel once I received the 2nd test panels. Hopefully tomorrow. At least guy promised that for 3rd time. But he is lier... you know what he served me... he said one machine broke so they are waiting for the nozzle to arrive. He forgot there are people that knows difference between laser and waterjet cutters.  ::)

[Kartoshka]

what's his interest in lying you?  :-\

[Sasha]

He obviously have bigger jobs to do which will earn him much more money than one test panel. What should he say... you are low prioritized, or, I don`t have a time right now for your 15EUR worth job. :-\  If one know how to run the business he will treat the customers right and make small customer feel the problem is of other nature, not he is less important. Agree?

[TheAncientOne]

I've had a similar quote for the lead time on the Grayhill switchesfrom the UK distributors today. Both Black and Red are quoted as 11 weeks to UK. My price quote was £2.46 including VAT,  equal to 3.20 Euro, including VAT, (UK, 17.5%, since I have a VAT registered company, this can be removed for export to non-EC countries). This is the same price as Digikey. I got a quote for 50 switches, enough for 25 x0xboxes. I can place an order as soon as I like, without a minimum cost.

I think the best idea is to get all the Grayhill switches in one batch, and then split them off. I'll do a final 'price check run' and we can see where it's best to put the order. I'm less concerned about saving a Euro on the switches, than of getting an assured supply in the best possible time. From the distributors point of view, I think a large order will get better priority, (like Sasha says).

I am also thinking of holding a couple of the switches as spares in my company stock, I have the bad thought of somebody breaking one at a gig, then having to wait 10 weeks again for a spare.

Like I said earlier, it will be easy enough to temporarily fit a PCB style switch - which I think is what Limor did on the breadboards, so we can at least get our boxes up and running. If we need to do this, I'll do a step by step and post some pictures.

Let's face it folks, the hardest part of a x0x is getting the bits.Anyone in the UK who has trouble making their x0x work is welcome to get in touch with me, and I'll do a 'get you going' service, like Oakley & co. (I' just won't charge you more than a drink). This offer does not apply if you have tried to assemble it using a gas heated soldering iron and plumbers solder, (don't laugh - I had a guy once turn up with a fuzz box design he'd done just that way. There were only 2 strips on his veroboard still stuck to the backing!)

I think a new thread is a good idea.

[Goblinz]

I'm glad we've got people like you on board prof (and the others). My electronics experience doesn't go much beyond GCSE and tinkering around when I was a kid. Even all these different parts times are getting a little confusing. I think I need to sit down at some point with the BOM and work things out.

I think I'll be building two x0xb0xen eventually, one using the laydyada parts, one using the alternatives so will be easier to get 2 of everything now.

            G

[Kartoshka]

i'm pretty convinced buying some which look like these... or even exactly these.

each 5+ euros

Material: Aluminium

... hmmmm  ;D

[Kartoshka]

What do you say, shall we order some ?

what's the price, again?

[el-bee]

So, I decided to go for a quick prototype/mockup anyway because there were some (mostly clearance related) mechanical issues I needed to check for:

The switch PCBs I'm using do take up quite a lot of extra space so I either have to look into trimming the excess bits away or just go for a slightly larger case design. If the motherboard and switch PCBs are layered as in my current prototype, the case has to be some centimeters thicker as well and the 16 step leds nor the volume encoder cannot be mounted directly on the motherboard (a BIG minus).

ANYWAY, to get to the point.. What I was planning to ask about was, does anyone know about the correct fuse bits needed for the Atmega chip? I tried searching through the ladyada forums for any info, but the topics there seemed to be related only on the basic "how to actually accomplish serial/ISP programming" or "why the f**k are these things called as 'fuses' although they're not OTP" :D.. My x0x-board seems to be ok otherwise, but the MCU is definitely running at a wrong clock rate: The whole keyboard interface is totally unresponsive requiring a second or two to register a key press and the sequencer tempo is stuck to something extremely low and cannot be adjusted. Not that I actually had the time yet to verify and/or test different fuse configs, but using the calculator at

http://palmavr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/fc.cgi

it's apparent that at least all CKSEL fuses need to be all 1 and SUTs 0 (ext. XTAL 8+ Mhz + reasonably safe startup time delay).. But how about the other fuses like CLKDIV8, EESAVE, WDTON etc?? BOOTSZ has to be ok whatever it is currently since the system boots up (albeit very slow). I also guess having the 4.3V BOD level enabled doesn't hurt at least.

Now then, maybe I'll actually check the settings in the meanwhile ;)