Eagle

[DavidBanner]

I've finally decided to bite the bullet and learn Eagle.

Can anyone please point me in the direction of a decent online tutorial? I've found a few which are helping and read the Eagle Tutorial PDF but there are still some big bits of knowledge missing.

can anyone point me to "10 steps to Eagle CAD" that mobieus mentioned?

In the meantime if anyone is kind enough to want to answer any of the following newbie questions I'd be most grateful:

If you are doing a 2 sided board, are the though holes (vias?) automatically placed on the board or do I need to do it manually?

has anyone got the library object for the encoders smashTV sells?

when editing/creating a new library object is there a quick way to select layers without going into the layers menu and turning off the layer you don't want to move?

[seppoman]

can anyone point me to "10 steps to Eagle CAD" that mobieus mentioned?

Sorry I don´t know a 10 steps thingie, but I´ve found the complete manual from Cadsoft quite usable (ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/4.16r2/manual-eng.pdf). It explains quite a lot of stuff the step by step way.

If you are doing a 2 sided board, are the though holes (vias?) automatically placed on the board or do I need to do it manually?

What do you mean by automatically placed? Except for the autorouter (which only gives useless crap most of the time), nothing is automatic. But if you mean how to get vias while manually routing: you can change the layer of a trace by clicking on the mouse wheel. e.g. you start at some leg, route the trace to some point. then you left-click to fix the trace to this point, then middle-click to change the layer, then just go on routing the rest of the trace. changing layer does automatically a via with the defined diameter and shape. I normally change to .7mm diameter and round shape before routing, as it is a standard drill size at most pcb manufacturers, and squared vias look stupid IMHO :).

has anyone got the library object for the encoders smashTV sells?

No, but I´ve lost all respect for defining new parts. It´s really easy and well described in the manual. If the manual is not enough, then just have a close look at some similar parts to learn how it´s done. A lot of electronics forums are full of people who ask for libraries of parts they can´t find. Just do it yourself. The first part I´ve done took me perhaps one hour because of first time learning. Now it´s a matter of 10 minutes :)

when editing/creating a new library object is there a quick way to select layers without going into the layers menu and turning off the layer you don't want to move?

What do you mean by select layers? normally, you select parts/pins/elements and they are in some certain layer. You can change layers of existing elements with the tool/change layer tool. When creating/placing elements, usually in the top bar there is a selection field to define onto which layer it will be placed.

If you´ve got more questions, just go ahead and ask :)

Seppoman

[DavidBanner]

thanks for the tips seppo!

I've already read the manual/tutorial from Eagle, and I think I'm starting to get the hang of it.

And yes, after the inital WTF is going on here I'm getting the hang of building new library parts, that said I'd always grab one if it's available, especially as it's less likely to have mistakes than the ones i'm building from scratch...

[cimo]

..gently offered by the man who can welcome you at the chat even before you turn on the PC.. MrST:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-custom-library-part-in-Eagle-CAD-too/

[DavidBanner]

cheers Cimo - I just read that about 1/2 hr b4 you posted - I'm an Eagle info sponge at the moment

[DavidBanner]

another question -

please consider smashTV's encoders as a ref point: http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/images/encspecs17.gif

the pins on the sides to hold the encoder to the PCB require a rectangular hole - can I just add a rectangle to the milling layer for these?

if so, will most board houses do this without charging more on top?

[seppoman]

rectangular holes - this depends on your board house. the cheap one I´ve used so far doesn´t do anything that is not drilled (i.e. round). If your selected manufacturer can do other shapes, chances are high that it will cost extra. The easiest and cheapest way for these pins would be normal drill holes that are big enough that the pins fit in. My guess is a 3 mm hole but try it out on veroboard before ordering.

Seppoman

[DavidBanner]

I checked Wilba's control PCB and he's done the round holes....

so round hole it is....

[cimo]

hi

i have libraries for those encoders but they are made to be used with DIY etching not for prods but if you want them i can fire them to you

Simone

[DavidBanner]

cimo - would love to see them, I've done mine own so I wanna compare and see if I can pick up some tips :)

seppoman - i've been working all day with Eagle and I'm complete convert now!

can you please confirm that I'm on the right track with these things I've worked out:

a) you've gotta add the drills to all pads in the library files when you make a new component (for the board house)

b) when working on single side PCBs use the top layer only

c) on single sided PCBs the board house will print the silkscreen layer on the "top" layer (i.e. where the tracks are)??

question:

D) how does the solder mask work? do you have to add it manually?

[cimo]

david pm me your mail, i will fire them to you

b) eh?? no why? normally you use the bottom layer but it s up to you of course

c) no the silk screens are printed on the silk screen layer that in eagle is top_places etc, it has nothing to do with the tracks

got hooked to eagle eh? ;)

i have other eagle libraries but they are all made to suit my needs not the pords guys.

Simone

[DavidBanner]

hey cimo,

yeah, I came to the conclusion that the bottom layer was the one to be working on with the tracks while I was trying to get to sleep.

just to confirm, if I'm doing a 1 sided job, tracks bottom, silkscreen top on top right?

And yes, totally hooked on Eagle, to the point where I couldn't sleep last night for Eagle info running around my fragile little mind...

[seppoman]

just to confirm, if I'm doing a 1 sided job, tracks bottom, silkscreen top on top right?

right, just look at Smash´s boards :) But if you´re going to have it made anyway, I´d strongly recommend doing a double-sided PCB. It saves you so much time layouting and usually costs only a few bucks more. With single sided pcbs, it´s always the "how do I get as few bridges as possible" tetris. Not that you shouldn´t try to keep the number of vias reasonably low on double sided, but you just don´t have the need to go round the board with some trace to save some stupid jumper all the time :)

BTW, even if you do a double-sided board, the silkscreen is normally only on the top side. Some board houses offer an additional bottom silkscreen for extra cost. But this only makes sense if you do a SMT board with components on both sides.

The solder mask is generated automatically by Eagle. As long as you don´t want something special, you don´t need to think about it.

a) you've gotta add the drills to all pads in the library files when you make a new component (for the board house)

No, just use the Pad tool (the green circle left below the polygons). On the top ruler you can define the drill size for the pad. The pad diameter is normally generated automatically. You can easily check that this is true by switching off all the layers except drills and holes and then place a large pad. You´ll see the circle is already there :)

Seppoman

[DavidBanner]

just look at Smash´s boards

I follow that man's work like a disciple! Have been looking at smash's pcbs and diagrams on his site and viewing TK's .brd files and studing, he does beautiful work.

I've been studying my WilbaBeast pcbs too - I thought they were lovely when I first got them but moving to Eagle has really shown me what a work of art they really are!

The place I'm going to order from is http://www.olimex.com/pcb/index.html, for some reason I thought I'd read 2 sides were 2 X the cost, but on checking you are so right, double sided is the way forward for sure.

That said I do need to design a few boards that only need single sides, very simple LED holder PCBs, hence all the questions.

The solder mask is generated automatically by Eagle. As long as you don´t want something special, you don´t need to think about it.

woo hoo!! result!

No, just use the Pad tool (the green circle left below the polygons). On the top ruler you can define the drill size for the pad.

ahh ha! fantastic, one less thing to have to go back and do on all the new components I've added to the library.

thanks so much for your help, answers and tips like the above are going to mean so many less slip ups on my 1st run.

I think I'm getting my head round eagle, now it's time to incorporate all the variables I'm getting from the board house, so much info to take on board it's a bit daunting at first but i'm loving it!

one more question if I may:

when I'm trying to edit library components and I try to add a trace I get a message saying "the package is in use".

I've worked out that it's quick enough to copy the package and schematic to a new library, but am I missing something that allows me to edit the pads?

[seppoman]

That one is a bit tricky in Eagle. I think it´s ok that you get warned about it but it can be a PITA...

That package warning means that there´s a device which uses the package. If you want to change the number/name/etc... of pins in a package, you need to open the corresponding device, delete the package/Symbol association, edit the package and reconnect both in the device. Likewise, if you want to change the symbol, delete and reinsert it to the device. This package+symbol=device topology is convenient for defining some part that comes in multiple package types. but if you just want to build a new part, it can be really annoying. I don´t think there´s an easier way to do this.

BTW, if you want to change a part definition after the part is inserted in a PCB: Edit and save the package/part. then use the "add device" on the schematic and select the part. Then eagle will tell you that the part already exists in a different form on the pcb and asks if you want to update the existing ones from the library. Click yes and then press escape to end the part placement (without having to actually add the new part you don´t need).

S

[DavidBanner]

golden tips there Seppoman, thank you very much sir!

[cimo]

.same here txx seppoman

[/tilted/]

I have wondered whether it would be a good idea to start a small MidiBox.org library or Eagle parts... encoders, some of the more common switches...

[Jidis]

I have wondered whether it would be a good idea to start a small MidiBox.org library or Eagle parts

It's funny, the same topic of pooling together custom Eagle libraries has been going on for the past couple days in one of the Gearslutz forums:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslutz-forum/147041-eagle-cad-libraries.html

I think those guys are probably in search of big analog crap though.

George

[DavidBanner]

that's not a bad idea!

shall we set up a new page on the WIKI?

[stryd_one]

I for one would love to take advantage of someone else's hard work on this ;) heheheh

[cimo]

Quote from: /tilted/ on Today at 03:40

I have wondered whether it would be a good idea to start a small MidiBox.org library or Eagle parts

i ve written to TwinX about this a few weeks ago the answer was: it s on my TODO list.About the Wiki AFAIK you need admin status to upload files.

I am eager to offer space on my server for uploading libraries, then the links could be posted in the wiki..

..sounds good? if some admin gives me the ok i will make some space in ... 14 days? does it sound reasonable?

I will make an upload page, you ll need to have username and password probably or we could just have one single user shared, as long as we are just a few peeps doing that.

I think i can take over my server the thing for the moment then if it can be moved to ucapps later on .. better..

looking good?

Simone

[cimo]

ok here s the deal:

you guys send your libraries to

  MBwiki.upload@gmail.com

add a text file with all the infos you feel like and make a zip out of the files.

The files will be checked and uploaded (sometime in the near future) in a wiki page.

Now close the connection and go back to your Eagle libraries bunch of lazybones!

Simone

[cimo]

yo! why waiting 14 days? for what?

there it is

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/parts

i ve uploaded a very basic library just to give it a quick start ;)

have fun!

DB sorry to mess up the title .. :)

[seppoman]

Hi Simone,

I don´t know if your generous offer is really necessary - all Moderators and Frequent Writers (e.g. stryd and me) can upload files directly to the midibox wiki. So in fact your solution would only mean two servers instead of one that could have a data loss or be down, and either one person instead of 10 (?) that can do uploads for the community or an unsafe shared account for you. So I think it makes more sense to upload the files to midibox.org. If you want something there, just drop me (or stryd, or audiocommander, or Wilba, or ....) a note :)

Seppoman