Jidis

Thorsten, Don't know exactly what PWX's MPC sequence data consists of, but is it possible that it's note length data could screw things up (I don't guess he'd be sending a drum sequence to the SID)? I know some of my machines only output a quick "spike" of note duration for the pads and sequencer, expecting the sound module's samples to create the sustain. I don't think they will record incoming message lengths from external MIDI triggering either(beyond that spike), but I guess the MPC has a "real sequencer". I also had a Digidesign SampleCell card that was weird about the note on/off proximity between two events of the same note number. If a note off happened within a certain distance of the next note on, it was either totally ignoring the new one, or ignoring the note off and creating continually overlapping notes, hogging up the voices (it was a long time ago). Backing the note off message up by a few pulses solved it, but it ruined the thing's value for my main loop-based applications. >:( PWX- Also guessing this stuff's been quantized, and there aren't by chance duplicates coming out simultaneously. Good Luck, George

Yeah, I've been fascinated by that lately, but don't really have much need for it here right now. The two big ones seem to be Wormhole and FXTeleport. They've gotten sort of ridiculous lately, and have moved way beyond a VST System Link or Remote Desktop type thing. Someone on a beta list I'm on, networks with producers and people from the sessions he works in, and they all listen to, and work in a wireless, remotely synchronized Nuendo session on a main machine at a large studio, from multiple locations, while discussing the changes. He said he'll go out on his balcony at home and work on edits on the main session at the studio, from a laptop. I'm guessing it may even be gigabit ethernet or something. Weird stuff. :o One of my short term goals is just to get remote (wired) MIDI control of a couple mastering and EQ plugs from the tracking room here. That room has a fairly nice consumer stereo system in it with big speakers, which stays on a mirrored optical out from my control room mix bus. I usually go in there to double check things on a wider spread, with some better low end capability, after I've gotten a suitable mix in the smaller control room. It almost always ends up leading me to some tweaks, so I have to literally run back and forth making minor "trial and error" changes. >:( Take care, George

Moebius, I guess you mean it's already screwed up, so more serial data muxed in won't make it much worse >:(? Man, I really hate to burst your bubble on this, but if you haven't got any prior experience with them, or haven't been reading a lot of web info, try not to get overly "high hopes" on that MTPAV. The Micro Express parallel was one of my biggest gear disappointments in memory, and MOTU unfortunately seems to have decided on a "unified" driver version for their USB and COM port MIDI devices, neither of which appear to be 100% trustworthy, and the driver is already a couple years old, despite all the problems and complaints. FWIW, I think I've seen less complaints on the MTP's than the smaller ones, but it may just be the quantities in service. We ran the MTPAV at a place I worked at a few years back and it did OK, but that was back in the 98 days, and the main machine it was on was actually a beige G3 (8 pin serial). I think I had some of the notorious MOTU trouble with it on occasion, maybe more on the PC side of the chain, but I doubted my own experience with such an elaborate setup too much to realize it was actually their fault. ;D If you want an idea of some of the issues, drink a bunch of cough medicine or something to relax, and then go read this- http://caps.pcrecruiter.com/MOTU/ It's old info, and some believe it has been resolved, but many have realized that it hasn't. I don't think the guy that wrote it had even run his box for long after whatever driver came out back then, so he probably hadn't yet hit anything. Although the info is good, and I appreciate the time and knowledge he invested, I still don't think some of it is a 100% cure. I've seen users post of how they got their parallel MOTU box working by a specific, yet convoluted, startup sequence, but I fear they were overly optimistic after seeing it work a few times. Like others, even when I got mine out of "MIDI Flyer" mode, it had the ability to screw up or disappear while it was on the system. I'd almost rather have it go undetected. The SysEx thing mentioned on that site was also a serious problem here, and his suggestion to change channels or something, wasn't possible with the output of my JLCooper. It's a real shame that their software priorities and support are so horrible, especially for those MIDI units, as they have so many nice non-USB ones. The Micro was 4x6 or something, with a pair of front ports, had individual status lights, and was a half rack desktop unit, which probably would have been perfect for what I needed. It worked OK in 98, probably on the Mac as well, so it's obviously capable "hardware-wise". I'm keeping it around in hopes that someday they'll get off their asses and fix some of it, but it doesn't look promising. They invest far too much in rushing out new hardware and advertising it, so I'm guessing that keeping any previous customers happy isn't at the top of their list. If (or when) you start hitting any bumps with it, you may want to write them and make sure they know what's happening, and are aware of your interest in parallel MIDI and intention of remaining on a PC. That companies priorities and the treatment of it's customers has really begun to disgust me. When I first gave up on the Micro, I wrote them a nice polite letter explaining most of that, and sent it to customer relations. So far, there's been nothing, and the support email correspondence ended after the first "try a different cable" type crap response they gave me didn't work. I've taken every opportunity to let people know what the common experiences are with their hardware's reliability and their poor Windows support. Some are under the impression that it's changed, but fishing around would prove otherwise. Here's another bunch of related comments (most of their MIDI stuff has the same quirks): http://www.sonicstate.com/digital/comments.cfm?modelid=152&srow=1 and another depressing, but interesting article about some of their company policies: http://www.soniccontrol.com/blog/index.php?itemid=6 and a somewhat "young" forum (mainly about XP & MOTU's audio boxes) http://s15.invisionfree.com/MOTUXP Then of course there's UnicorNation, which would probably be more helpful if it's info were open for unregistered public viewing and would show on search engines. I'll probably be seeing you in there. ;) Wish you luck with it! George

Thanks again Raphael, If worse comes to worst, 2-2x2 USB's may be enough. I may look into their effect on heavy multi-track streams before keeping them up while tracking. I'm considering putting a few simple (standard pot) MB controllers in the control room for some of the basic processor plugs, and would probably be running more than one core. I'm guessing I wouldn't want it all squashed into one or two serial MIDI lines. ;D Also, if you or anyone else knows- Assuming the USB bandwidth is high enough, the timing and latency of the driver you guys are using is adequate, and the stream doesn't have any drastic affect on the audio activity: Are a bunch of 31.x kHz MIDI signals squashed into a USB line (like with a hub) much different than one or two in that regard? Also guessing this is all well within USB 1.0 spec., and there would be no point in running a fast hub for these chips(?). My boards do both formats, and have multiple jacks as well as a couple separate USB busses, so I could also split a multi-MBHP USB arrangement to more than one USB bus or port on the machine if it made any difference. The backs of the machines and racks are pretty well buried, so extra cable mess wouldn't make much difference. I still want that parallel thread, and I'm still pretty sure it happened in here, but I've done just about every search I could think of. Maybe the guy that was working on that one will sense the presence of this discussion and come flying in from wherever it is he went to, like a superhero or something. :D The driver issue is obviously way over my head, so if I ever find a circuit, I would assume that whoever had designed it would also have written one, or be using an existing one. FWIW- I don't run laptops or Macs now, and most of my studio boards seem to be the type where they just keep adding to the available port types as the technology advances, so I don't see parallel or serial disappearing on the ones here for a while (knock on wood). I'm also sort of hoping that Synsopos, the great god of USB dongles, will be merciful and grant me the ability to run a couple USB MIDI circuits if I need to. Take Care, George PS- Has anyone, by chance, had that MB USB interface (or the driver) go undetected or temporarily vanish on them while using it? It had happened with my MIDISport, and might be a bit embarrassing if all my controls went out in front of anybody.

Great place. :D I need a small amp soon, and I've got some 5532's here. Thanks! George

Attila, Don't know if it was the right thing to do, but I've sort of moved away from the autorouter. I've also gotten in a habit of cramming way too much stuff onto small boards, so that may be one of the reasons. ;D If you start with a blank board (I actually keep my prefs on black/colors on a white background), then zoom out a ways, and drag your wired up components out into the free space, spreading them apart some, you can usually see the individual airwires a little better. Afterward, you can drag them each around the space with the move tool, right clicking as needed to rotate them, and you should see an arrangement which will get you the least amount of criss-crossed wires. Then you can bring them in closer and arrange them on the board. I usually just start manually laying routes after that, but if you've moved them around like that, the autorouter may have better luck. Doesn't look like you've got but one "normal" passive component on there, but the usual resistors and crap can be a big help for stepping overtop of some traces. An option to color the different airwires in Eagle may have made all that a bit easier. I sometimes will temporarily switch to a brightly colored layer and lay a simple temporary route for one of my longer wires, just so I can see what it's likely to crash into, while I'm laying the other ones. BTW- If you haven't found this already, the rotate tool can do weird angles, if you click on an object, and drag outside it's center. Also, if you can manage to ride between a few IC pins on some of the routes, you may save yourself a few jumpers. Have Fun, George PS- Couldn't help but wonder.. what does that circuit do?

Alright man, that's not fair. Don't make me have to start posting some speak&spell code in here. ;) -Zbrozb

I'm guessing that 8 pin one he used would be one of the types you could blow with one of those "minimalist" programmers (like a handful of passive components stuck to a com port plug ;D) I was wondering last night why he doesn't give any brief info comments, before the source starts, on what it's for or how to wire it (ala Thorsten). I guess if you're building one, you already know the pinouts and junk. A plug does sound more convenient, especially since VST's already got tempo links and crap for delays,etc. Old timecode might be a worthwhile "tool" bundle. Nuendo already comes with a batch of scope/generator plugs. When I get a minute, I'll throw a post in the Nuendo forum for you. There may already be something out there, plus Aleksey from Voxengo, and some other plug writers seem to frequent there. It may even be something Steinberg would consider adding to their bundle, but I'm afraid some of the bundled plugs are linked to their software somehow. Take Care George PS anybody- Assuming the frequency and waveform specs are all within digital audio's range, is there anything about those type of signals which can't be electrically reproduced by a standard analog output like SMPTE/FSK can? (seems it does have more lines than those)

Raphael, Thanks for the translation! That's way heavier than anything I'd need. I was wondering if a multiple MBHP USB system like that would involve multiple individual modules, or if it's all integrated in one, with one USB line, and just additional AN2131 chips. Sounds like something which would go over quite well, not only with the MB community, but all DIY audio people. I guess Thorsten or anybody probably wouldn't want to invest much time in it though if the chip is now E.O.L., or has been replaced by something stronger. It did seem like a lack of that sort of stuff on the web. There's usually a decent price jump from any current multi-port MIDI rack unit, and the small 2x2 and 4 port boxes. There's also usually additional time code and sync stuff, which many of us don't need these days. I'm getting more into the idea of replacing an obsolete or broken unit's guts with something like that. I was looking at mine last night thinking about it. The Opcode thing would be perfect for it, especially if the panel lights were replaced with i/o status lights from the new one, and there's already a whole row of all the appropriate back panel MIDI holes and PCB jacks. Just looked at a few on completed eBays. Anything with Mac 8 pin serial is pretty much a trash can item, and all the driver support for the others dropped off when Opcode went under, so there's probably no 2K/XP. The Studio3 looks like it can go for 5 bucks at times. There was one for two of them, which went for 13 dollars, a Studio 4 with 14(!) rear jacks and 4 front panel for 10 dollars, a Studio64x with 10 jacks or something for 9.99. You'd almost spend that much just for some decent PCB DIN sockets. Some of them have PC serial jacks on the back, plus they've all got SMPTE and footswitch stuff, so you could throw something else in there, like some audio i/o or an internal sound module. ::) I hate to keep coming back to this, but parallel DIY would rock. There'd probably be enough feedback and outside development with an open source driver that it would live forever through multiple OS's. As sought after as those are these days in the studio world, it seems most of the available ones aren't very well supported. The wonderful looking feature-filled MOTU parallels are a total crapshoot under 2K/XP, and even if you can make them work, as with many other pieces of MOTU's sh.... um, I mean hardware, they run a chance of disappearing on you mid-session. >:( I wish I knew enough to try to work on one, but on my level, I'm a long ways off. Please keep me informed if you should happen to run across one. Take Care, George

Jaicen, You may be interested in this, if you haven't seen it: http://www.colinfraser.com/m2d/m2d2m.asm I don't do any of that sync, but used to carry that doc., and a few others around when I was first getting into PIC MIDI code. It uses a 12F629. I think it sends and receives the clock. That clock plug does sound usable. I had thought about software FSK/SPP as well. A while back, I was also asking someone about a plug-in for DBX NR. It would be cool to have a software bundle for all of it, with many of us now struggling to archive our old analog recordings and interface our DAW's to vintage hardware. I'd like to see something which could bring in a raw track from tape,etc., compensate for various tape speeds or directions (like for playing back 3.x ips 4-track cassette stuff on stereo consumer decks), and then simulate various NR and even bias/level/EQ processing to get an optimal sound from unknown tape sources. I know that's not an exact recipe for retrieving the tracks, with all the electronics and head types involved, but it may be close enough for some of us. I've had to insert EQ's here en route to a stereo DBX unit, because the playback deck sounded nothing like whatever I made the tape on. Seemed like it helped. Take Care, George

Thanks again Raphael, That's great to hear about TK's circuit. Unless something comes in from him to change my mind, I'll probably go ahead and get one or two of those chips. I've been dragging my feet on putting together a DigiKey order anyway. It would be cool to see a version with >2x2 i/o. My main concerns are not only the latency and multi-port bandwidth, but also being confident that nothing will interrupt any heavy incoming audio channels during multi-track recording. I'd still love to find a good parallel interface circuit, but it's not looking too promising. Also still wondering who the guy was in here that did something like that. Or was that all in my mind? :o I may even try tracking down the guy that did Maximum MIDI (Paul Messick). He had a smaller serial one or something that looked cool, but it died off long ago. :'( Maybe he could just rearrange some code. It's surprising there isn't a multi-port DIY parallel out there. There's even a couple obsolete, vintage patchers and MIDI interfaces out there which would be a perfect host chassis for one. I've got an 8x8 Yamaha MIDI patchbay and an Opcode 2x6 Studio3 interface here. I may consider putting a Thorsten USB circuit in the Opcode box and mult'ing the outputs to 6. The body is in mint condition and the things are just about worthless now. BTW- I mailed Uwe Beis (the S/PDIF guy - http://www.beis.de/Elektronik/Electronics.html), after seeing a link in that Micromixer thread recently, to thank him for the info he's compiled and created. He turns out to be cool as s*** (thanks for the tip Jack)! I was bugging him about S/PDIF VU meters and DIY ADAT. He apparently has been working on a full-blown multi-channel USB2 audio interface with mic pre's,etc., but hasn't had enough time to finish it up lately (the good ones never do ;)). Oddly enough, the analog parts of his stuff sound like the areas he's actually dissatisfied with. I wish he had taken on a good MIDI interface at some point. -George PS- Raphael, I couldn't help but notice just now that you and Jack both are in a related thread from the Deutsch forum back in 2004 ("8x8 USB MIDI interface + MIDImon + Serial?"). How did that end up turning out, and more importantly, what exactly was it about? (for us primitive "unilingualists" ;D)

Sorry for the minor question flood. 8). I was thinking about throwing Thorsten's USB interface in with my next etch. I was wondering if that main processor was something you might find hanging around on scrap USB devices or boards, or if it's one of those "specialty items". George PS- If TK sees this- 1) Is that "still under development" note over with (is it still wise to make the original)? 2) I thought I remembered you having some pretty good details on the reliability and latency of a few different commercial interfaces, of various connection types. In your own experience, how would you say your's stacked up, and has it been pretty reliable about remaining online,etc.? ( I'm seriously looking for something I can count on for studio duty, with just a few ports. Mainly for controller data, but funky timing might also be a problem if I needed it for modules or clock.) -Thanks Again!

Synapsys, Thanks! I would probably be using mine for tweaking apps for use on another box, so I probably wouldn't want to be running an alternate LCD setup, but I've got a pile of DIP switches and headers here, so arranging the regular wiring shouldn't be a problem. Just wondering if ICSP is known to make reliable burns or if there are any "tricks" to it. FWIW- I normally do most of my app transfers by MIDI in MIOS Studio, but somehow I've had way too many occasions where I've mangled my PIC contents and haven't been able to get back to an accessible loader without re-burning. Considering that, it probably wouldn't be safe for me to trap the PIC in a box. I may just have bad luck in that area. ??? George

I couldn't help but notice you rarely see mention of that here. Is there some reason not to use it? Seems like without a ZIF socket, those of us who screw around with our apps a lot might not be doing our PIC legs much good. ;) Might stick one on this board I'm using. Thanks! George

Raphael, Thanks! I had forgotten about that PDF (hadn't seen it in a while). It does have one with 5 pots and 3 pulled low. I was just wondering if a "known state" could be high or low. I've got one of the core's going already, but I may swap a couple things around anyway, so I might go ahead and add some routes for individual grounds. I had a really easy means of pulling them up, with a dual row pinheader beside an 8 pin 10k resistor pack, so you could just pop off a few jumpers and stick a plug on whatever open ones you wanted. The other sad part was that the BL +/- lines for the LCD were apparently reversed on my display from what they are in the MBHP LCD wiring PDF. That was the worst part of the layout. I already had all the lines routed and soldered. I've got a female jack for the removable LCD, which was encased in some hot melt glue for extra strength. I had to cut out a section of glue and Dremel down into the traces at an angle. :'( Got it all back up (with the light), but I'll probably do it again 'cause I'm mental. 8) Take Care, George

Thanks Thorsten! The reason I was asking is, I built a really small hacked core layout, mainly for doing some MIDIMon/LED tweaks, but I set it up so that I could connect other things to it as well (just like a regular core). It will likely end up with the two switches on bankA 1&2 and all others pulled high, but I've got jumpers taking them all to the 5v line, so I can remove any, or all jumpers, and have access to the pins for whatever else. If I were to do that, maybe with 2 or 3 pots, and had the app set for "no Mux chips", can I just use my jumpers on the last 5 or 6, or do I have to add some way to jump them to ground? Thanks Again, George PS- Don't know that "AUAIMBCTG" one. I've got an idea of what it would mean, but not the exact words. ???

I wanted the single compiler app a while back as well for an older machine, and just moved the MPASM exe by itself to a folder (can't remember if I took some hardware def./text files too). @Moebius- how much stuff did you end up with? I might be interested in that one you've got. The single app method seemed to compile fine, and the resulting hex checksummed fine against one on a big XP machine. I still don't know the exact benefits of working in the full IDE. I think I asked a while back, but didn't get anything. Wondering how you guys keep track of source refs to functions,etc. between multiple files in the app folder. Seems there must be a better way. I've done that through the find command, but didn't see much difference in just using a small text search utility on the folder. I was also asking if there was a "non-Win" version (DOS or even Linux) of any PIC compiler which might run better on a crappy portable machine, like a 486 laptop. About some of those compile errors- As just mentioned, I keep my source in a low folder near the root, with a shortcut on the desk, but there were also some strings of errors (discussed here recently), from the difference in formatting of whatever Thorsten had done them in (mainly the actual MIOS OS files). They were something about expected "line number" locations in the source. Mine seemed to work just by adding or removing some blank space to get the "end" marker to the line MPASM wanted. Hope that was an OK solution (seemed to work OK). -George PS- If they fixed that path error reporting, why wouldn't they just fix the actual cause?

Likely a dumb question, but I noticed the MIDIMon schematic had that first 8-input PIC bank all pulled high (through 10k's). When using the bank for direct pot inputs (no Mux chips), do the empty one's still get pulled up, or do they ground like the 4051's? -Thanks! George

@ Moebius- Sadly, Firewire is one of the few integrated motherboard circuits I can safely keep disabled at the studio. :'( I am getting sort of tired and worried about hauling around these removable IDE caddies, and have considered switching over to externals, but that will likely be USB2.0. I'm guessing that way, I'll also be able to access them on other (USB1) machines with no additional cards. BTW- I've usually got at least one caddy traveling with me to the studio each night (often three). They either ride in a plastic grocery bag, my book bag, my food bag (sometimes along with an ice pack), or I'm just carrying them loose. This has gone on for a few years, and they've each been kicked, dropped and stepped on more than I can count. I'm currently trying to retrieve my data from my main home/online machine's system drive which died Monday, and I've witnessed the deaths of numerous other internal HD's. All three caddied drives still work flawlessly. (now they'll probably all die next week ;)) Anyone remember who that was in here with the multiport MIDIface project? Thanks Again! George

Just went DIY MIDI fishing on the web and accidentally ran across another: http://www.maxmidi.com/diy/metro/index.html It uses a PIC16C54, but could maybe even be ported to something easier to get or smaller. It spots incoming MIDI clock, and flashes a bi-color LED (one color for the accents). It's not as elaborate as what Dave wanted, but it looked sort of interesting, and may be usable to someone as a separate "add-on" to a MIDIBox. -also pulls it's power from the MIDI line ::) There's a hex and source on that site, but the code looked funky or old to me. -George

Sorry to raise this up from the dead. :o :o :o But, have there been any DIY advances in this area which I may not have seen? I've seen the Harmony Central DIY MIDI page, Paul Messick's serial port box (Win95/3.1), and most recently, this single port: http://www.xs4all.nl/~marcmarc/ele/sm/midicent.htm USB MIDI still sort of scares me from past experiences. I grabbed a MOTU MicroExpress about a month after this post last year, and it set a new, and possibly unsurpassable low in my book for the worst audio hardware drivers in the history of mankind. It sucks too because the box is absolutely perfect for what I wanted. I'd like something with decent bandwidth and multiple, separate ports (no "thru" type chains), and a nice solid, reliable connection to the host with no other ill effects on the CPU,app,or OS. It would obviously need a driver which XP/2K and Nuendo (v.3) would agree with and find all the available ports. I'd like to be able to chain a bit of redundant junk (clocks, modules, and of course MIDIBoxes) on the line without them interfering with, or slowing each other down, and be able to switch devices easily (via host app), eliminating the need for my other "not-so-trustworthy" JLCooper patchbay. I *thought* there was a discussion by someone here who had actually designed one and wasn't finished or wasn't satisfied with something about it? The "driver impaired" Portman box here has 2 or 3 PIC's in it, as it's main guts, so I guess there are capable PIC's for that. Worst case, I may just look for another popular outdated commercial box with better support. (or any support >:() If anyone's got any new info, I'd appreciate it. Take Care! George

alright man, got me stuck on there. >:( ...I was supposed to be doing something else. ;D I like that cap meter. May get the junk for it on a Digikey order I'm building. My piezo thing is more just for general "beeps" and alerts. (not so much a metronome as Dave's)

Thanks! It's a bit of a stretch from here in the US though. ;) I like it too, but I just thought it looked strangely familiar. (I still can't remember from what) I've been eyeballing different old external modem enclosures, hubs and junk over here lately. George

Man thanks! Always looking for something "ready to etch". :) I'm trying to throw together some little stereo to mono adapters, phone amps, and mixer things for convenience in different places. Tone controls might make a cool addition somewhere. Mine wouldn't be for SID's, so I'd probably need alternate values. I take it that's the "ACTIVE 3-BAND BAXANDALL" from that page you liked? George PS- I've been working from the board editor most of the time myself. I'll often use a schematic to get my pin to pin wiring done, but sometimes delete or move it after I start playing with the board routing, to avoid all the "out of sync" errors from Eagle. I also tend to use pin headers and DIP sockets for things that I don't feel like finding library items for, and just wiring them to what I need in the board editor. The schematic view probably wouldn't make much sense there either.

What's that cool looking "round cornered" case? Is that a scavenged item or a commercial DIY box? George