Jurbo

After finally getting to compare the chips (and different capacitors, too) with a joystick controlled filter, I too find the 8580 more to my liking. The 6581 has a bit softer, more fluent tone in the bass register, but the 8580 has an overall sound that is more "in your face" and expressive, and the filter is capable of more nuances. So, anyone out there with a 8580 to sell? I'd like to turn my 1x8580/1x6581 into a 2x8580 (or maybe a 2x8580/1x6581 or maybe a...). :D

Ebay community? What does this community mean? I know that ebay is a huge auction site, but are there special communities inside? Gotta go and check... Besides, I would rather buy a tested chip than bid for C64's whose sid type I can't be sure of (and I don't want to have a closet full of gutted C64's - it kind of hurts to see the poor machines lying there, rendered useless...). :-/

Hi! I'm looking for a fully working SID 8580 chip for my MBSID project. If anyone has surplus units, please send me a pm! :)

That's a feature of the 6581 chip (I suppose you have that type). It pops a bit also when you turn filter on and off, right? The 8580 seems to have less popping.

Ok, I took the 6581 module and made it the master sid, and the 8580 is now slave. I changed the programs on the cores, and both sids get the filter changes from the joystick simultaneosly, so everything seems ok for now (have to try some different caps on the 6581, though). Thanks, TK.

Hi again, guys... Here is what I'm wrestling with right now: I have a two sid setup, with an analog joystick connected to the master core. I can control the filter of the master sid (8580) with the stick (thanks to d2k for the information to modify the files). But I can only control the filter of the master sid, and I want to control the slave sid (6581) filter simultaneously. Other than that, the master/slave sids seem to work ok: after I press link and select both sids, they both play simultaneously, but the the stick only affects the master sid filter. The program file on my slave sid is "setup_6581_slave1.syx", from the same folder as the joystick modified "main.syx", after running "convert.bat". Okay, after further research, I found that when I change the filter channels, the slave sid (6581) loses volume when I put a filter channel on. When three channels are on, the sound goes totally off. Same results with 470 pF caps and zero ohm jumper wire. ...And after even more research, it seems that the 6581 is fried somehow... I tried it on a fully working C64, and on the Delta title tune, it was perfect, but on the Ace II title tune the growling bass wasn't there! And it seems that the Delta tune doesn't use the filter, but the bass sound in Ace II does! So, the chip seems to have lost the filter ability totally. Damn, I'm pissed. And sad >:( :'( Luckily I have another 6581 (I wanted to keep this chip untouched, though...), fully working in a C64, even after it spent some time in my sid module. But, still the filter doesn't work in the slave sid, but it doesn't turn the volume off, either... Any advice in this situation would be treasured!

About the display - I don't know if this matters, but the MBSID program uses a 2x20 LCD as default, so now that you use a 2x16, you should change one value in the sid_init.inc file (you will find it, the file is well documented). Somebody correct me if this isn't necessary.

How do I change the default patch, so that my default patch will boot up with filter enabled? I want to test my joystick filter with my 6581 sid/core combo which doesn't have a lcd for navigation, so I need to change the default patch so that the filter is on as default. Is it this line in the file sid_presets.inc: EEPROM_FILTER_CHANNELS de 0, 0x01 ;; 0x18 and how should I change it? Thanks!

Thanks Marcel, but my folder is in the c:/ directory and it has a short name. So that can't be it... But, even if I got a load of strange messages, the new main.syx file did the trick, and my joystick controlled filter now works! ;D Now I just have to figure out how to make the thing behave so that it doesn't jump to the filter menu when I wiggle the stick... ;)

Ok, maybe I don't understand the compiler... I open the .mcp file, and then press F10. I get a lot of error messages (?), first one is: "Make: The target "C:\XXMyfolderXX\main.o" is out of date." Then there come dozens of messages, like: "Warning[203] C:\XXMyfolderXX\SID_INIT.INC 68 : Found opcode in column 1. (movlw)" What is the problem here? Any ideas?

parade

I'll have to check this out when I have time. So the joystick controlled filter should be effective right away after applying power to the MBSID? No need to push any buttons (or connecting pins, in my case so far...)?

Hmm... I used the MPLAB and convert.bat, and I got new versions of the .syx files. I first tried uploading the file "setup_8580_with_cs.syx", then i tried uploading the file "main.syx". In both cases, when I turned on my MBSID, played the MidiOx keyboard and used my joystick, I didn't get any changes in sound, also the parameters in the filter menu didn't change. Joystick connection should be ok, at least I get changing measurements, is there something I'm missing here? Should the MBSID be set in a certain mode to enable the joystick or something? ???

Ok, now I have a cute little joystick, and I have edited the files sid_init.inc and sid_ain.inc as described in the earlier forum thread. So, how do I build this huge lot of small text files into the .hex file that I'll turn into .syx? I suppose this is the stage where I have to inform the software about the selected SID type and master/slave status, too? How do I get that done? Thanks again, guys! :)

It works for 1 to 4 (would probably work for more if MBSID supported more, plus I don't really know how many the actual C64 PSU unit could support - depends on your LCD's current drain etc.) Core/Sid pairs. The big idea is just that it provides well filtered power, allowing for sound output with a good signal to noise ratio.

Daveojo, you just spoke out my thoughts when you said you'd order the kits and see it from there. That's the attitude I'm building mine with, and so far I've been able to realize all I've tried. It only takes some (blind) faith - so get it going, you're in for a very interesting project with great support from a lot of helpful people. :)

I am almost sure that your bass has single coil pickups, and this type of pickup is very sensitive to outside interference such as the magnetic field of a monitor, for example. When built to be used in pairs, the other pickup's coil is wound in reverse direction, with the magnets also in reverse polarity. When both pickups are on at equal volume, they cancel out the interference noise of each other, but add the actual sound signals to each other. So you get the sound, but not the interference. So your bass is probably all right. But if the noise really bothers you, you can get humbucker pickups (one pickup has two coils inside, cancelling the noise by itself). The sound will also be different - single coil and humbucker pickups basically don't sound alike. Welcome to the paranoid world of guitar customizing and upgrading! ;D

These pages are excellent, maybe not 100% as clear as I'd like, but 95%, anyway. Daveojo, just take the time to read through the site (preferably several times) and you'll very probably find an answer to every question that might pop into your head (and the rest can be solved here on the forum). My earlier experience on electronics is mainly working with electric guitars and some improvised repairs on hi-fi equipment, computer disk drives, etc., and I have only some actual understanding of electronic components, but I'm totally confident that I'll get my 2 SID Control Surface C machine ready and working before Christmas. It took me maybe 1,5 weeks of browsing around the site to understand enough to be able to place my parts orders (kits with pcbs and components, plus a lot of other stuff). Now I have 2 working sid/core combinations, one with a LCD, plus the din and dout modules (not tested) for the Control Surface. I have been building this thing slowly for about a month (a full-time job plus a lot of other activities occupy most of my time), and I'm about to move on into building the case and the actual physical interface. This project definitely isn't for the impatient (I'm roughly estimating my project to total about 80-120 hours), and it's quite far from being free, but man, is it rewarding and educating! 8) (At first I thought that 1000 euros for a Sidstation is hugely overpriced, but now I just think it's not cheap!) ;D

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the aftersound is a bug of the older 6581 type SID chip. If it really bothers you, you could change to the newer 8580 type chip, that doesn't have the bug/effect (but the overall sound will be a bit different, too...).

Glad to be of help! I have already one joystick ordered for me by a friend. I'll give the stick a hard time on my SID machine - once I get it finished! 8)

There are some joysticks at Elfa.se, a scandinavian electronics distributor. They have no-return-spring models, too (this is what you probably want). The price is not exactly cheap but not terrible either.

Ok, so, what value caps should I use on the joystick pots? I have some mono audio cable (1 pole in the middle, ground wire wrapped around it like a tube ) - this cable should be good enough for connecting the pots without picking up too much intereference, right? Where on the master core should I connect the pots?

d2k: So you don't get jitter or display menu jumping to filter parameters randomly? Did you have to filter the output of the joystick pots with capacitors or something? And where do I hook up the pots? I think I read somewhere, that no AIN module is needed. Is it the analog inputs on the sid chip, or?

Has any of you used a joystick or a touchpad to control the filter of MBSID? Where did you get the joystick/touchpad and was it difficult to customize the software? Does it work well? I know this has been discussed long time ago on this forum, but has anyone been at this lately?

A stupid question: how do I start the program? I have Java Runtime installed, but can't start the program. Is the .class file the "executable"? ???