moogah

+1 to that, I've been holding off on looking for a mixer until I get a chance to try this out :)

Hmm.. Cheater, have you taken any measurements regarding the exact differences between receiving a trigger pulse and reaching maximum amplitudes for each instrument? (this is what we are talking about, right?) Although I never made any official measurements of this it was always my impression that, aside from the clap, each instrument reaches it maximum amplitude within 1-2 milliseconds after the trigger pulse is received. If this is not the case I'd be curious to know the measurements for each instrument, and it's at least possible that simply adjusting the value of a capacitor here and there could compensate for this difference...

Nobody should get their hopes up (please don't contact me about this) but more PCB's is not out of the question. Before that happens I need to do a third revision of the PCB using feedback from the people who've already received them :) There are no spare PCB's available in the meantime, the only people who may get one have been on a waiting list for almost 2 years now ;)

... Best post I've read in a few weeks ;D

Yup, quite interested in getting my hands on some PCB's for this as well :)

Actually, I'm in this boat too, but I realize that my needs are best taken care of myself without dragging down the larger project (I want to fully modernize my Oberheim OB1 which will take about 24 CV's, at least 2 of which need to be VCO precision). The new chip looks good to me :) Certainly enough to start a modular control box. Since I've got a couple samples of the AD chip I would be interested in getting my hands of some of those old PCB's too, same with writing a driver... however as the 808 project continues to go into extra innings I'm not sure when I will have time to really dig in :-\

C and D seem the best options we have here. Option E is not so attractive to me because of all the effort that has already gone into selecting a DAC and it seems a shame to take a step backward. Still tho it does seem like the powers that be don't want this project to succeed! >:(

Excellent work man! Do you still want some help with design/testing the output stage? It looks like you've got a good amount of work already done in that area :) PS.. what is this program you and SmashTV are using to render the boards?

I just moved into a new apartment, just about everything is unpacked and I'll be starting the EU process in a couple days :)

Ok, I've got the set of Sebastian's PCBs which I built before creating my own monstrosity based on them. They are pretty much assembled, but you shouldn't expect to simply plug them in and be ready to go. For one none of the MBHP hardware is included and you'll need to create your own power supply. I also used this board as a test setup so I would recommend that you not take this unless you are expirienced with analog circuits and can read the schematics to get it working 100%. Pots are not included. Price: 60$ USD plus shipping. And, for those who are *very* adventurous I have the first prototype PCB that I made for the 808. The digital section is a complete loss and there are several other problems with the tone generators (the HC and RS are not likely to work). This is really a job for an experienced EE, preferably with a hacksaw to make something useful from this. ;) ;D Price: 20$ plus shipping. I've also got a student version of Reaktor here, It's been fun using this program, but softsynths really aren't for me. I'm sure I'll miss this, but if there is a midiboxer who would like to buy my *student* license from me (please, don't use this as part of a hack) I'll sell it for 125$

Allright, I'm moved into my new apartment and I've got all the 808 kits shipped out. So.... who is still interested in getting one of these boards? Given the cost of shipping some of the 808 kits across the ocean I would estimate the cost of shipping to the EU at about 40$ USD.. so it's not quite the super cheap faders they would be to people in the US, but I've got them here, so speak up if you want some!

Sorry for the wait guys. Just a little bit longer and I'll be getting these boxed up. In the meantime, here are some pics: pics I'm thinking this might be a good project to use the PIC18F4685 and the CAN buss on :)

Couldn't go to sleep without fully dissasembling one of the assemblies to see what they are made of 8) :) 17 faders, 16 vertical bargraph assemblies, 16 alps encoders 16 circular graph assemblies 32 tact switches with LED's. I've got the knobs, slider caps and front panel bezels for the LED graphs too. All the hardware is mounted on one PCB and there is a daughter board containing the PIC and drivers for the motors. The PIC is a 16C74B which, to my sleepy eyes, looks pin compatible with the 18F452. It looks like the signals from the faders is multiplexed into the PIC via 4051's and I see quite a few 595's on there too, but I'm pretty sure the bargraphs all have their own 595's on the main PCB. I havn't re-traced the whole motor control circuit, but I see a LM324, a couple voltage references (there is a 3.3v marking on the PCB) and a BD139/BD140 output stage which is probably to drive the low impedance input to the motors. And thats all for now.

Ok, They got here today and this is what the deal is: These are not actually a complete Alps Motorfader, rather what they are is an alps fader with a custom assembly on top that attaches a motor to them. As such there will definitely need to be some research done to make these work with MIOS. The good news is that the overall construstion of the fader is rather nice, they have a nice bit of momentum to them and, overall, the PCB's look like we may be able to re-use quite a bit of stuff. I'll do what I can to take some pictures this weekend, but the PCB's for my 808 may show up first in which case I need to focus my attention there.

. Roger that, my thought was simply that we may find a gap between datasheets and real world performance. I can certainly handle that. I don't think we're going to find any major revelations given that were working with really low frequencies, but there are probably optimizations in terms of offsets and small errors here and there that will give less savvy builders headaches. .. and unless I'm retarded (possible) digikey has both 5392 and 5391 in stock with no minimum, were you planning on ordering samples or should I buy a couple? AD's sample policy has tightened up quite a bit recently so we may be right back to square one in terms of availability in the US if DK doesn't keep them in stock.

... Just sticking my head in here, once I've got some time available I'm def. interested in helping here in whatever way possible (I won't have real time to help for a couple months still). Perhaps we can split up the work based on different designs and compare results etc. This is the chip that interests me the most. I agree that 8 channels per board is plenty and the small lead spacing doesn't present a problem IMO. Granted this wouldn't be a good project for a beginner, but once you know how to work an iron .65mm is workable. Without digging too deep into the documentation it does seem to provide a good replacement for the 525. Looks like it only does 0-5v which is regrettable, but we can't exactly be choosy.. They're not exactly highly available either, but digikey has them for ~25$ Not too bad.

Ok, new list then Ileminator, Kris, Sasha, Therezin :) I need to wait for them to arrive to figure out the shipping, I'll keep you all posted.

Speak of the devil.. Just got the invoice, and I have 4 boards to spare. In order of the posts here that makes: ileminator Wisefire Kris Dr. Bunsen And I'm only getting the fader assemblies, not the whole units. The shipping would be too high otherwise.

Hey yall, I'm still waiting for the guy to invoice me for the faders, not really sure what the delay is about. I'll take as many as he has left and then sort the rest out here.

+1 on that manual, great work TK, it's much appreciated!! Now I just need the time to build a couple of these ;D ;D

;D ;D Most of what I would say has been said here. I would add one tip, kinda a complementary angle to Smash's tip about using the stereo field: Do some drum mixes in mono first and really pay attention to the overall levels. Which instruments overlap and in particular which instruments create dissonace when they overlap and work out the tonal balance this way. Then start breaking things out into the stereo field one instrument at a time. This will help in developing both a sense of tonal balance and how to use the stereo field to increase the space you have available. Compression is an area where you are guaranteed to overuse it at first... and it tends to ruin your sense of balance if you overuse it. I would defiantly recommend not using compression at all until you've really spent some time studying the tonal areas and then start using *small* amounts of compression here and there and comparing it to uncompressed signal.. on a variety of speakers (listen in your car!). As far as "fluid" sounding drums I think that may have a lot to do with the programming as well. Remember to pay attention to when rythems hit in sync with other elements in the music and when there is a back and forth between them.. or for that matter the back and forth between instruments in the drum kit (simplest example is the boom-click-boom-click-boom-click-boom-click 909 beat). I tend to think of this in terms of "foils" which is a pair of sounds that complement each other well and tend to create suspense if you hear one and not the other, something at the heart of early Jungle programming.. actually Inner City Life is a really good example of this, the hat/snare rolls on that track are what first got me thinking about programming like this and kick and snare (which are just about always the foils for each other) on that track make a wonderful use of syncopation and foiling to create tension and energy. Same with using two different snare sounds, each one complements the other and prepares the ear to hear the next one again and the total effect of kick foiling snare and snare foiling hat etc makes for a drum track that feels like it belongs together.. kind of like a back and forth conversation where each element adds in a piece and counterpoints the other elements.

Bring her back! lol ;) I would doubly agree with SmashTV reguarding Faders + touchscreen not being redundant.. a bit opulant maybe.. but the combination of dedicated controls + on screen elements can really be amazing! .. In any case this thread is the last thing I need... Now I've gotta spend my weekend looking into the cost of touchscreens and embedded linux platforms. Dammit. ;D ;D ;D

Between me and stryd I think we'll get every spare board that is available. Worth noting that there is no guarantee that these faders are compatible with the MF Module (for 20$ who cares tho ;)) Also, keep in mind that PBPBB is *much* more vulnerable to spambots than yaBB, my tiny little forum gets 2-3 bots a day, and I use both captchas and email activation. Prodigy pro would be *swamped* with spambots if the admins didn't manually activate accounts.

Indeed, I had to get some guidance to figure this out too Answer is: create a polygon around your PCB and then rename it to "GND" or "DGND" or whatever your ground is called. Hit the ratsnest button and you should see the change.

If there is, be sure to let me know :) I believe most of them just hang out on SDIY, but the lion's share there is analog. Also, I don't even have my 4xD assembled yet.. but I know for a fact I would use two if I had them. MMMMMMMMM Spacialization!