yogi

Pulled an OPL3 off a OPTi soundcard, not sure of the model#. The OPTi chip is marked 82C924. The FCC sticker has a model # MF-009, FCC ID J98MF-009. The DAC on the card is not an YAC512; this card has an LS512 which I think is a Philips chip. Does anyone have an info on this DAC, no love from Google. It appears to have the same footprint as the YAC, so I think it may be a drop-in replacement but I'm just guessing. I'm going to try it on my MB OPL3 brd along with a YAC.

Thanks TK, for your comments and all you do. I know my questions are very 'un-focused', just having a hard time defining what I want to accomplish without having any hands-on with the interface. I think the 'dream' list of general features would be real time and automated control of registers, filtering and effects to notes, song and patch management/sequencing. In essences, many of the features found in most DAWs. I might be over reaching with my expectations, and in the long run a laptop may be a wiser choice. I am thinking that the Seq V4 is probably closer to the type of control that I would like to have; maybe with add CS elements. I do know that I need more research on the YM2413 and the Gen/MDM's CC assignments. :) Thanks again.

I've been doing PIC asm for a while now (some 8051, Z80 and 6502 back in the day) and a little C coding (CCS and MicroChip C30 lately). I'm no wiz, but if I bang on the keys long enough sometimes things work ;) I was thinking along the lines of using an existing projects. The interface maps all the FM and PSG pram values to CCs, so the basic concept wouldn't be much different then sending patches to a synth module (but no internal storage, all patches and effects would be outside the interface). A simple CS and keyboard would work I think, but I would love to see some of the great features of your synth engine also. Eptheca is currently working on an integrated MB64 CS/Nomad/genMDM interface all-in-one synth, very cool. I know that NG is still evolving and I'm not clear if it a general purpose CS, to be configured/expanded for user's HUI projects; or can it be more of a synth front end or would the Seq V4 fits that bill better?

The current core carrier/LPCxpresso combo seems like a good design to me. For a special case design, a smaller footprint base could be used. The LPCexresso (less JTAG side) is really just a breakout board, so having a different mother board, scaled to an app's needs, could be prototyped easily. The STM32 core was far less flexible. The only fear I have is that at some point, the cost of the LPC board will jump. I saw this happen with Analog's ADSP2181 dev brd; went from $75 to $250, (when they saw plps using them for dedicated projects, I guess). As long as NXP keeps the price point for the LPCxpresso in the $20 ballpark, not sure how a 'new' board would be better without a production run of at least 500. At this point in time, you can afford to have a few LPCs, They'r just as cheap as a Arduino UNO. Nice idea but not sure how needed it is.

Hi So over at ChipMusic.org, Littlescale's GenMDM Midi interface for the Sega is getting into the hands of users ( I'm on the second run, YEA). In anticipation for when I have mine, I'm planning on a CS of some sort for PC free ops. I'm wanting to update to the modern world of 32b, so this seems like the project to jump start me. Just got a OM13000. The Interface just bridges midi to the Sega (running a custom kernel). Littlerscale has produced some great M4L patches to integrate with Ableton Live as well as standalone MAX patches, also there is an upcoming VSTi by Aly James. So the DAW end is well served (but I'm kind of restricted to an old copy of Live Lite ATM and not a DAW power user). I'm lik'en the buttons and knobs better then a mouse so I guess what I'm thinking of is somewhat like a MBFM synth engine with no OPL, just Midi. Is the NG the right direction? Or would a Seq V4 be a better fit? Any thoughts?

Hi if you are using 4 IIC boards then the mounting hole spacing is 1.85" x 1.42" for each board. If you are going to use the quad IIC board from Smash TV, well I'm sure he can help you out. Good luck

Hi I've been thinking about this subject for a long time! ATM I'm researching an idea for a cartridge based midi interface, but don't know how far I'll go with it, seems kind of redundant and over complicated considering the SynthCart/Midi2600 setup. The problem that needs to be addressed is to read the COL pins (which the 2600 is driving one at a time) and assert the right ROW to sim a key press. So it's a scan matrix in reverse, instead of driving a COL and looking for a ROW line active. 1 Read the COL pins. 2 When the right one is active low, pull low the ROW pin for your key till the COL changes. 3 goto 1 You could mod the 8x8 KB Scan Matrix to accomplish this I think. Your scan rate will have to be high compared to the 2600's, to detect the active COL, compare to the desired 'key press' and assert the right ROW. Don't think that is too much of a problem on a 10 MIPS PIC core, considering HL is using an 2 MIPS 16F914 with internal RC clock @ 8MHz, But, you might want to grab the Midi2600 Source from the HL forum , they have open sourced it. If nothing else, you can see how they time the I/O :)

Arrived yesterday! \o/ THX Nils, Happy New Years.

Hi Novski, In most all CAD packages, every Wire and Pin has a net label, when you connect a wire to a pin or another Wire, a net is created. As you add connections, they all carry the some net label. This is what separates a true CAD program from a Drawing prog like Paint. When your Sch is done, you should be able to generate a net list that is a text doc listing of all the nets, with all of the nodes on each net. If you set up the rules checking, the program will check that you have not connected a GND to Vcc, or two inputs. It's not 100% so your best bet is to go through the net list accounting for all interconnections. The net list is how the PCB layout starts out, it places Package footprints with net lines connecting the nodes. As you move the footprints around, the net lines stay connected. From these you route the traces, node to node, till you have replaced all the net lines with layer traces. Auto routers try to lay out the traces for you, but your mileage may very. By default, the nets are labeled automatically with a simple naming scheme, but changing the labels to a more meaningful names is very helpful on a large project. Keeps everything straight ;) In Eagle PCB, (don't know the soft you'r using), when you draw a bus, you name the bus and define the nets that make up the bus. I.E. "ADDRESS:A{16..0}" the bus label is ADDRESS, the nets in the bus are A16 through A0. Then when you want to connect to the bus, you 'pull' out one of the net wires to your next node. So on one end of the bus you might connect a node to net A7, then somewhere else you make another node connection to net A7,; the software 'connects' the two nodes. Hope i didn't talk your ear off, later.

Nice Work! Not too crowded and readable. VERY good considering this is you first project. I haven't worked on a MIDIBox MF project, so I'm not the best judge of the over design. But, one pointer I could offer, I would suggest that you label the signals at the bus connections. Without opening the reference MF docs and noting the signal names for all the PIC's pins (the MB assignments, not Micro Chip's) I can't tell how you are using the core pins. I'm sure that on the native Sch file, you can right click to read the net labels. But in a PNG or PDF, as a reader, I can't tell if you are assigning the core's RA1(or any other) pin correct. When pins enter and exit a bus, a bad connection is hard to spot; without going pin-by-pin, reading the net assignments on the bus. It adds more text to the Sch but I know for myself, if I label my net assignments at all the bus connections, I can at a glance or a day or two later, spot my bone headed mistakes, before the board layout. Labeling also makes it much easier for a person not familiar with your design, to follow your logic. Buses are a blessing and a curse ;) For Verification, generating a net list is very helpful.

Well, Marry Christmas to you also!!!! Thank you, Santa :)

Hi, Been thinking about Jarek Lupinski's kickstarter project, Chip Maestro http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jarek/chip-maestro-an-nes-midi-synthesizer-cartridge After going through his proof of concept design, it occurred to me a similar approach could be used on the A2600, as well as other rom cart based platforms (thinking of my A800Xl). Little Scale has demonstrated a similar design for the A2600 quite a while ago on his blog; I haven't talked to him direct, but he too, seems to be using an Audrino. I have Paul Slocum's SynthCart and a HiLiq Midi2600 interface, but the player port interface approach has limits, 12 keys/notes per port/channel at a time. So rapidly switching AUDF, AUDV or AUDC values in real time is not possible. In addition, the SynthCart relies on predefined note tables; to achieve scales within the limits of the TIA chip. Don't get me wrong, this setup is very fun and playable considering the platform. To be able to use the full range of valid combinations of TIA settings, you really need to sequence the 'song' data for a kernel based sound engine. SO not to good for live play. So a true midi port, mapped into the 6507's 4K of memory; seems like the best option. My first though was a PIC based design, not that I don't like Arduinos, just have a lot of F452s on hand and PICs fit me like an ol' glove. First design idea- Mapping the PIC's PSP into a small block of memory adrs and running a simple Atari kernel (batariBasic quick an dirty), on a EEPROM in the other part of the 4K; reading the PSPort as if it were 8 address', a basic state machine. Would need a small amount of glue logic for Adr decoding, but it would be very similar to a A2600 bank switching carts' ('magic read' adr switching. RD control only at the cart port). PIC could apply ASDR and LFO type effects to the Atari notes on the fly! Snd FX patches, tempo sync! Then I thought MIOS! As I research, I think I can: Use MB SRIO h/w model to interface to the 6507's bus and not use the PSP h/w. Pic controlling the HC595's SC and the 6507 controlling the RC & /OE; or let the PIC control both RC and SC as normal, and tie /OE to the 6507's bus. Glue logic needs to deselect EEPROM and gate RD signal to /OE of selected HC595 (HC138 controlling 8 HC595s). Still thinking about the timing, but I'm confident that the PIC @ 10MIPS will be more then enough (a small CPLD is starting to look good). So does this seem like it will work? Any thing I've missed? Yogi

PPal sent! Thanks!!

Sorry to bump this thread up, but I just finished a DIY 5x5. Had similar "issue", seems to be working after two runs of the driver install and port one: As long as it's usable no big deal. I seem to remember something about changes to the INF to rename ports?? Does anyone have a link to the thread for the driver info, the fourm search is not helping much today. Yogi

Sweet! been waiting for a chance to get some of these fine boards :) Yogi

=> NorthernLightZ My bad :o NOT STOCKING, really. Was watching/listening to Videos, must have been Hawkeye's, and reading your build thread at the same time. Just a Senior moment! Not that I have one NOW, but... This applies to all uC A/D or D/A converters, and more of a problem with newer 3.3V uCs. In high fidelity applications, external A/D D/A converters, designed for HighZ balanced loads and high sample rates are used. A/Ds on most uCs are included for system control apps, HUI or sensor reading all with in the system's Vcc range. Going from the analog domain to digital is always going to be an issue at the signal layer, most op amps work best in bipolar mode. From what I have seen, very few analog synths care to fit in to the needs of the typical A/D converter range 0-5V or 0-3.3V, apples and oranges. There are plenty of good reasons for this, but designing a 'one size fits all' interface is daunting. I think the best approach involves a header to insert a bridge interface to normalize the desired inter-connection, I.E. for connection of +-5V or 0-10v or whathave you. Very design specific! The lack of a single standard within the Analog synth world is a large hurdle, as you are fully aware from your AOUT project. YES, that is the beauty of midibox. But how often have you seen the 'humanizer' feature to add imperfections? Not being reproducible is sometimes good. Well, lots to digest. Will start a new thread when I get my mb6582 together and actually "know from which I speak". Look forward to seeing your progress with your build and AOUT redesign! Did I tell you how cool your front panel is? Yogi

=> NorthernLighX, just got to say I really like your build so far! That is the direction I want to go!!! Also following your thread on the AOUT redesign, ++, (I'm in line for 2 if you plan on a fab run of the boards). As to yes, yes and yes. At the moment i have a serious lust for a mbSEQ, must stay focused, must stay focused...I would love to build a mb64 at some point also or something similar; but for now, here are some 'free' AINs directly connected to the core and mios supports them. With a slight change in the SW each core in a mb6582 can have 5 CVs in. Know exactly your point, I guess I wasn't to clear. My point was, we are not dealing with an temco VCO; but from a HUI view, adding some expressive control is easy and the AD resoulation is high 'enough'. It is atomic to the synth, which to me is a plus. These AINs have the same resolution that a mb64 would offer, so we're eliminating the overhead of the midi connection, but giving up some of the added features another core would have. Of course with MIOS32 and the LPC core many new 12bit doors open( PIC moves to back of bus). I think in your first post you were asking more about the Electronic Druid designs? I kind of got off on a tangent, but to that point, http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php?page=projects.taplfo DCLFO on an 'F684 with PWM D/A 10bit resolution. I had been looking at these design for some analog projects, but when I discovered this 'hidden' mbSID feature, just seemed like the planets aligned. His ASDR looked cool also, but again it's doable within the MIOS framework. So in your opinion, given a single mb6582 setup, (I've seen your videos, very nice studio space!) is there nothing to be gained by using these AINs? I suffer from a total lack of 'hands-on-it-ness' On a related point concerning your efforts with the AOUT, do you see a need for singal conditioning to allow for bipolar inputs? I think that as a min, a pull down R and a 5.4V Zener to protect the AD inputs. Maybe an ext. op amp bridge if needed. I'll look closed at the mb64 as an example. Tnks for your input, Yogi

Is it needed, no. Is it complicated to add, no. So for me, its a fun feature of the great software that I might use every once and awhile. I can see using a pedal; adding drum pads, maybe (but i'm not much of a drummer); being able to add a unique analog controller would be a option. Maybe an interface for my Theremin. Don't know how many LFOs or ASDRs I need/want but that's kind of the point of all this; messing around and finding something new ;) The demo TK did with a 3 LFO summer into a CV, was cool (I wish I could find the link to that page again), can it be done with the standard CS, I guess. How hard is it to add a tap tempo to the sid's LFO? Just seems that the AINs add to the range of options. True analog control is very hard to replicate in the digital domain. This interface is limited to 10 bits so it will never capture the the full range from 0-5v but a range of 1024 can be expressive. I'm not planning for a PAC TEN case so I can afford more panel space. Guys, for me DIY is the point. It's fun to fire up the DAW and load a VST to have any instrument I want, just not as satisfying. Isn't that why we're all here burning PICs and breathing solder fumes?

Your best route would be a mbSID setup, there is SO much more sound control with the midibox as compared to a C64 with an midi interface. I too have a Papilio 500k, and have a Retrocade wing on order. But you must understand, with the Retrocade the SID core is a good VHDL description of the real SID, at it's heart it's all digital. I don't know if the Analog section of the SID is even modeled, and if it is, will it have the same response as the original silicone. To me this is the same question with the SwinSID, I plan to use a few of those also, but if I had the resources I would prefer all REAL SIDs. Both of these, either software or VHDL, are great and sound very good, but are unique in their own. Where is the line between a softSynth VST with a very good sound card compared to real hardware controlled over midi? With enough sample bits and a high enough sample rate can we tell the difference between a digital filter and a analog filter? Scott Gravenhorst's fpga synths are amazing (they are why I got the Papilio in the first place). Just wish I had the skills and time to port his designs to the Papilio (it needs a proper DA converter also), in retrospect, should have gotten the same SK board he uses. I've talked too much, Yogi

GREAT discussion! Thanks guys, opened my eyes to some interesting ideas. I have been scouring the boards for years( trying to learn all I can, sometimes an uphill task) and gathering parts. The other day I finally ordered a set of MB6582 boards to actually BUILD something, yea! I have a completed STM32 core but had an IT issue with my laptop( win usb driver prob ); had all the tool chains setup and then the PSU died on the Laptop:( BIG setback!! So now I've setup everything on my HTPC (had to build it from my 'dead PC pile', yes I boarder on hording). So the STM32; going to us it for a Seq, but will wait till I have a working SYNTH! Back to topic, so if I understand correct, 5 CV ins local to each Core (x4 in MB6582). Not sure how to route in the menus, but I'm thinking of adding some of Electric Druid's LOFs and/or ASDRs (all ready got the parts) to the build, with a patch bay setup. Any ideas and thoughts? I had planed on building them for some analog MFOS projects, but I have been planning an MBSID forever, so the WSG will have to wait! Not wanting to highjack this thread, just wanted to say Thanks, didn't know what I didn't know, Yogi

Hi markrogers11, welcome and I hope you stay with it. First off, from your posts it seems like you have very little knowledge in basic electronics? Most of the projects here are based on micro-controllers, single chip computers; in addition to the digital electronics there is the analog electronics of the sound chips, the SID and Yamaha FM along with the many other great ideas around here. SO, my advice is to start reading, start on the web, lots of very good basic electronics pages out there. Also start looking up the datasheets for the chips used in the projects you are interested in. Learn what a resistor does, what a capactitor is used for. Learn how to read a schematic drawing, what the symbol is and what the real part looks like. 25 years ago you could go to Radio Shack and buy one of the Engineer's Notebooks that explained simple circuits, in some ways things are much better today, with a little searching, a ton of information is at your fingertips. Before diving into a complex project, build a simple blinky LED kit or a simple amp kit. But checkout the kit's instructions; you want a kit that walks you through the whys and whats. I have seen some kit instructions that do not have any written instructions, just pictures, useless for learning! At some point you should get a Proto board and a simple selection of basic parts. Search for Atari Punk Console; breadboard the Ne555 circuit and experiment with component values. Learning Micro-controllers and Micro-processors can be a steep hill; unlike high level programming, you need to know the system's hardware to be effective. But once you learn the basics, it is much easier to pick up a new one. Datasheets and App notes are your friends! Though most of the projects here are based on the PIC, you could look at the Arduino as a learning platform. There is a very large and active community using the Arduino, so there are a lot of projects posted, both simple and complex, to help you learn from. The MBHP projects are DIY, the designs are well documented and for the most part are ready to run unless you want to modify them. If you can follow directions you can build everything here, but you need to get the basic knowledge to understand the directions ;) There are lots of people here that will help you with specific problems. Everyone here, has been were you are; some of us have been at it longer but we all started from the same point. Just dive in and stay with it; it will make sense after awhile :) Van

Thanks TK & findbuddha, :) I'll try it straight away. The problem seems to be related to duo core processors and Windows' USB midi drivers, there are lots of related posts for Win7 with this midi issue, so I guess that M$ is not in a hurry to fix it!! Thanks again, Yogi

I know this a 'dead' topic but I am having the same sort of problem. The STM32 shows up in Device Manger as USB Audio device, as it should, but MIOS Studio 2.2.1 doesn't see it and it's not found in Control Panel/Sounds and Audio Devices/Audio/MIDI music playback, (but under the Hardware tab it is listed). I'm running XP Pro sp3 on an HP laptop Intel core 2 duo CPU, (have seen Google with Duo core MIDI issues). The other posts in this thread mention "options" menu,?!?! Cant see it in MIOS Studio 2.2.1.? I think the problem has to do with Windows' driver but does any one have a hot fix? Thanks, Yogi

Hi, Just finished building my SmashTV Core32 brd and having a problem checking it out. I'm running XP sp3 on an HP laptop, MIOS Studio 2.2.1; the core shows up in control panel, both with and without j27 shunt, (USB audio device: location 0, MIOS32 Bootloader) but MIOS Studio doesn't detect it. I've tried disabling the on board SoundMax HD midi interface, but no change. Am I missing a step here, do I need MidiOx or something like it? Do I need to disable all other midi devices under 'Sound and Audio Devices'? Have not installed any DAW, only have the minimal Windows and sound card midi drivers. Thanks, Yogi

The soundgen is very close to the speakjet, but is geared more towards general synth as well was speech. I've got a demo board around here, (somewhere). The synth design is modeled after a SID, I think, but of course does't sound as good. Had thought about modding the speckjet project for a soundgen, but my project 'to do' list is already very long. Yogi